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#361 Gagis

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Posted 09 July 2021 - 10:24 AM

View PostLord451, on 09 July 2021 - 10:13 AM, said:

And the fact is, playing a laser vomit meta mech has let me fairly easily climb to mid tier 3 (might go higher, I just haven't been playing this POS very long). The mech you play absolutely has an impact in your scores. Recon means nothing. If you're playing a light that doesn't explodigate things, you're worthless as far as the formula goes. And I recently came back after a hiatus and found that I'd been shunted into tier 5 when I got back. They mentioned in one of the patch notes that they listened to the crowd and stuck all "new people" in tier 5. Which sort of makes sense. The biggest thing that irks me in the formula is that they mention ideally getting a bell curve out of it, but this system absolutely does not do that. In fact it can't. If it's zero sum, and everbody starts in tier 5, you're going to be very weighted negatively because suddenly there just aren't enough free floating points for tier 3 to be an average.

I can't say if that's good or bad, but this certainly doesn't do what they claim they wanted it to do.

The system "leaks" on both ends. A player at the bottom of tier 5 loses points without actually losing any points and a player at top of tier 1 gains points without actually gaining any points, so those ends get a bit more population.

Most old players got reset to tier 3 first and only those who had not logged in for some time got reset to tier 5 with the newbies

#362 Lord451

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Posted 09 July 2021 - 11:12 AM

View PostGagis, on 09 July 2021 - 10:24 AM, said:

The system "leaks" on both ends. A player at the bottom of tier 5 loses points without actually losing any points and a player at top of tier 1 gains points without actually gaining any points, so those ends get a bit more population.

Most old players got reset to tier 3 first and only those who had not logged in for some time got reset to tier 5 with the newbies


The system seems to be designed to pass out an even number of ups and downs. So in theory yes, the whole system is stable, and for every high end match, you'll "lose" some plusses and as many "minuses" will be lost at the low tier on average.

But let me toss some numbers in to make it make more sense.

From the first post, mid tier level 3 is 2500. So on average, there should be 2.5k points times the number of players in the system. Lowers have fewer that were gained by highers, and negatives drip from both ends. This is where we were when the reset happened.

Now we start adding new players. New players come in with 0. They start earning some from the pool, possibly balancing their early losses initially, but again, we're talking averages. Let's assume they'll reach average mid tier. Say we had 1k players before this change for easy math. But now we have 2k players, all trying to go toward that middle.

Suddenly, there are only enough points in the system to average out 1250 points per person. So suddenly the mid point is shifted downwards because there just aren't enough pluses to go around.

The problem is when you have a system that just looks at the one level, and they've explicitly said it's zero sum so for every player to rise another has to fall. Suddenly tier 4 is the new midpoint, and then it'll eventually be tier 5. Whereas the old system had a tendency to kick people higher than they should, this one will hold people back and make uber pools. The only reason it's not worse is the game doesn't have that large of a player base.

This system will invariably lead to high tiers of the super elites, and a big blob of "and everybody else."

Edit: Some grammars

Edited by Lord451, 09 July 2021 - 11:36 AM.


#363 Sawk

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Posted 09 July 2021 - 04:26 PM

KEWL BEANS-- you folks are starting to talk, folks always in tier 1 say its YOU, you will not change, THAT is a TRUE, i am in tier 5, but not much longer, been popping some 250+ games pretty often with some higher, and taking the top spot.
OH before i FORGET, i am a CLANNER, so any of you TIER 1 players, want come kick my butt, lets do a solo, WOOT
I do agree, the system is hard to move up in, 1 of those problems is the 4 man grouping, i think they need to move to 6 man grouping for 1 month, see what happens, and then bring in bonus for the lights, like way heavy in killing, i agree i have done 2 kills in a light, a med and a heavy last week, total damage was 230 points, i got a 141 match score, i got hunted by 5 more guys, and my team won, but i am stupid one, and went down in tier level, boo hoo

LET US HERE MORE STORIES
SAWK i am easy to kill, only clan mechs here LOL

#364 Lord451

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Posted 10 July 2021 - 08:00 AM

View PostSawk, on 09 July 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

KEWL BEANS-- you folks are starting to talk, folks always in tier 1 say its YOU, you will not change, THAT is a TRUE, i am in tier 5, but not much longer, been popping some 250+ games pretty often with some higher, and taking the top spot.
OH before i FORGET, i am a CLANNER, so any of you TIER 1 players, want come kick my butt, lets do a solo, WOOT
I do agree, the system is hard to move up in, 1 of those problems is the 4 man grouping, i think they need to move to 6 man grouping for 1 month, see what happens, and then bring in bonus for the lights, like way heavy in killing, i agree i have done 2 kills in a light, a med and a heavy last week, total damage was 230 points, i got a 141 match score, i got hunted by 5 more guys, and my team won, but i am stupid one, and went down in tier level, boo hoo

LET US HERE MORE STORIES
SAWK i am easy to kill, only clan mechs here LOL


Wut?

#365 Sawk

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Posted 12 July 2021 - 04:15 PM

OH LORD451,
I never read or post just the above guys, your RIGHT see how many tier 2 guys there are, NOT many-- your BLOB or folks stuck is happening, but they will not show the bell curve PGI, but the down slide can be fast and swift, the going up in tier level is hard, and if your playing new mech or new light with no help--- like i have YOUR tier 5
almost to back tier 4 for me, but i am stuck in a time zone, the eastern time zone. 7pm to 10 pm, its tough playing with newbies, some nights, and i still get hunted from time to time, but i try stay the course. maybe i need to build a team : )

SAWK

#366 Lord451

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Posted 23 July 2021 - 10:20 AM

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, I was just having trouble following your stream of consciousness style of typing. I've found that I am going up in tiers much more consistently now that I focus more on doing damage than killing mechs and winnings. If I take a HBKIIC with heavy large lasers and sand off an entire assault mechs front to finally kill it, I get far more battle score than if I play a piranha, walk up behind a dire wolf and core him from behind, even though the second is objectively far more useful. "You only did 80 damage? Pshaw. The other guy did 350!" Sure, but my 2nd mech downed a 100 tonner, and my first mech barely dropped a heavy who got to dish out damage the whole game.

Whole thing is borked, but boy do heavy large lasers get you ranked up fast.

#367 Sawk

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Posted 23 July 2021 - 04:27 PM

WOW i can respond
first off i have some HBKIIc mechs, and they have very bad hit boxes, very close with the timberwolf, but WOW you load up some fire power on both, just so you know, i mostly run timberwolf -- its got 2 er large lasers, and 3 med lasers, your basic laser vomit. max hit is 41 --- many folks say it not great,
But there is more, the clan mechs have speed, better sensors, load up a target computer, and a probe, and you can push your sensors out with skills, and wow you can see mechs way out there, the ECM can block, but not everything : )
LAST thing everyone says is useless is jump jets, but you turn on a dime, using vectoring, and learning to feather them just enough to make the turn, and landing let speed go, it can be a useful skill.
Anyway your right just do damage, but remmeber there are 20 things you can do for match score, like stay with main group for 2 mins in the beginning, flanking, using a airstrike, and most of all having a UAV, it does help :)

SAWK

#368 Rebel Ace Fryslan

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 11:00 AM

finally found info about the tier system as it still confusing why is drop down in tier with good scores in a light

#369 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 03:20 PM



#370 Sawk

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 04:02 PM

Hmm well ---Rebelace i just look at your score on the leader board, you really need to boost your Match Score above 250, its a bit hard in a light with no wingman, just me i can play light but its so much better with a buddie--wingman,
Now there are no bonus's for being a light, or any size mech, PGI said they could adjust some stuff to help, but i do not think they will do anything.
Go look me up, on the leaderboard, i mostly play a heavy sometimes others, and i am switching between tier 5 and tier 4, with a AVG score around 230 or so right now, i have been above 250 for a bit, but i hook upped with a old friend, and played a light and me in a viper, nice little mech high speed, 4 med lazers, and super heavy on the armor, ran with a artic cheetha, most fun, its real rush, to see a atlas drop in 3 to seconds.
ANYWAY good luck with info given, your way out is way above 250 match score, or find a group or wingman, : )


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#371 MadDach5und

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 09:45 AM

The "Vulture" behavior I referred to in an older post was enhanced this week by the cash contest based on Timberwolves.

A team lance of four would drop with Three Timbys and a light... and I did myself participate in groups drops the same way...

The difference with my Timby lance - is that we were actively participating in the battle from the start.

Dropping solo, I witnessed someone else's Timby lance sitting out the first half of the battle, quite obviously waiting to vulture kills from pre-damaged mechs and boost their score for the competition. I called them out on game coms for their passive behavior, and threatened to report them for non-participation. THEY threatened to report ME for Griefing.

I post this story in the PSR thread because raising PSR is difficult - and increases in much smaller increments for most pilots, since it is relatively hard to soar above the "average" team score for each match. Having a huge, superior score does indeed advance the PSR rating faster, but it is rare. Odds are most who accomplish it are already higher skill tier players slum-dropping in alt accounts or taking advantage of a low tier pairing.

However - getting a punished PSR for a LOW score - is incredibly EASY to happen. Because the scoring does NOT take account for lack of team participation. The whole thing is based on the scores for the whole team. A lance sitting out a beating means no matter how skilled or talented of a pilot you may be - very few can compensate for 1/3 of the team missing.

Instead of 700+ damage and team score around 250, we get ambushed and mowed down in seconds, barely managing 200 damage and a two-digit team score.

That same skill lance of passive vultures can make it worse if one of them bends the curve skyward and does 2-3x more damage than anyone else on the team.

I don't want the Fortnite style shrinking blue circle. I'm OK with dealing with passive douches. I just don't want to see my PSR wrecked from one abysmal score that largely wasn't my fault. They way things stand today, we have matches where whole teams just pack a line and then don't move, even when their teammates are screaming for help. That kind of passive group paralysis needs to shake loose somehow. My guess is protecting that PSR is a key reason why it is happening. Any thoughts?

#372 Gagis

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 10:29 AM

PSR is a statistic. A single game will not significantly affect it. Any attempts to make lost matches give more PSR will only mean the statistics get less and less acurrate and players more and more frustrated.

Wins and losses are the ultimate goal and only accurate measure after all. Match Score is a crude approximation.

#373 John Bronco

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 01:37 PM

View PostMadDach5und, on 11 September 2021 - 09:45 AM, said:

The "Vulture" behavior I referred to in an older post was enhanced this week by the cash contest based on Timberwolves.

A team lance of four would drop with Three Timbys and a light... and I did myself participate in groups drops the same way...

The difference with my Timby lance - is that we were actively participating in the battle from the start.



Groups are not allowed for the Timby contest, so if they were in fact in a triple Timby group it has nothing to do with the contest.

#374 Sawk

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 03:39 PM

WOW i like the wording,-- the VULTURE Behavior --, seen alot of it, i can expand on that --what about, i will walk backward once i find the enemy. OR watching a ill prepared DIREWOLF -- try to chase a packed out pair of Lights -- what heck were you thinking.
THE LAST ONE IS THE BEST, i call it GOAT herding, one say's anything and more then 6 guys feed them selfs 1 on 1 to the GRAVE.
SEEN all that stuff on the daily grind, also get alot of your not my MOM, tells me there still are new folks coming in, its to bad they have play with me first, the hard CORE CLANNER, LOL the things i have said

SAWK CLANNER-- 1 day i'll start using DISCORD, or buy a teamspeak, i am almost retired with good endgame, but i may have to spend so months broke, and eating beans :)

#375 MadDach5und

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 06:29 PM

View PostJohn Bronco, on 11 September 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:


Groups are not allowed for the Timby contest, so if they were in fact in a triple Timby group it has nothing to do with the contest.


I don't think anyone told them that. The possibility of people dropping Timby groups spontaneously right now, I'd give it about a 10% chance of being 'luck' and 90% 'inspiration' because of the contest.

#376 FlippyWayne

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 07:04 PM

What's going on with this? I've scored top on winning team and still lost rank!

#377 John Bronco

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 07:06 PM

View PostFlippyWayne, on 14 September 2021 - 07:04 PM, said:

What's going on with this? I've scored top on winning team and still lost rank!

Please show us the end game screenshot of your detailed stats as well as the team screen so we can determine what is happening.

#378 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 08:23 PM

View PostFlippyWayne, on 14 September 2021 - 07:04 PM, said:

I've scored top on winning team and still lost rank!

This is literally impossible. So please, provide the team stats screenshot and we can assess the situation together.

#379 Sawk

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 03:16 PM

HMM Aidan Crenshaw-- he speaks the TRUTH, its all about beating out the guys in your own group, and or being in the top 12 of the 24 man drop, so let see your PROVE, was top of your 12, or top of the 24 man group ???.
ITS funny i have been being followed, in the early days them came after me first or second to be dead, no one knows me NOW-- but a few lights are following me, i will try to get there names, i know a few that have followed me --- and i like it, STEALING MY KILLS, but winning the game, i am happy for them.
PRETTY HAPPY -- with lazer vomit, its in the game --- use it

SAWK -- CLANNER





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