# Psr Community Version 1.0

367 replies to this topic

### #321Redeye Sigma

Member

• 11 posts

Posted 16 July 2020 - 09:25 AM

Paul Inouye, on 23 June 2020 - 05:12 PM, said:

Hey Folks,

So we sat down and analyzed the core proposals that were submitted, including those outside of the 4 cores presented. At the end of the day, we believe Core 2B + Modifications, known as Core 2C from the initial pitch from Jay Z, would get the community what it needs in terms of PSR distribution. With corrections and including average team based match score comparisons, it provides a more fair method of PSR movement.

That being said, here is some info and clarification of what's happening in "Core 2C".

As mentioned in Jay Z's original proposition, win/loss still has a factor in terms of overall movement but is mitigated by the way the amount of movement is calculated.

In short, here is the formula being used:

PSR Change = W(X) - Y + Y( C(P/A) + (1-C)(P/M) )

Where:
W - The win/loss variable used to determine direction of movement.
X - Win/Loss constant used in weighting average team PSR shift
Y - Matchscore constant used in weighting PSR shift compared to the value of X
P - Individual Pilot's Matchscore
A - Team's average Matchscore
C - Team's average Matchscore constant used in weighting calculated team effects
M - Average Matchscore across all 24 players in the match

Example:
This is the data from a game that happened recently. Using the above calculation, the following PSR changes will happen:

Running the top player on the winning team's numbers we will get:

PSR Change = +1(5) - 20 + 20(0.6 (537/300) + (1-0.6)(537/242)
= +24.3

Running the bottom player on the winning team's numbers we get:
PSR Change = +1(5) - 20 + 20(0.6 (77/300) + (1-0.6)(77/242)
= -9.4

Running the top player on the losing team's numbers we get:
PSR Change = -1(5) - 20 + 20(0.6(229/183) + (1-0.6)(229/242)
= -2.4

Running the bottom player on the losing team's numbers we get:
PSR Change = -1(5) - 20 + 20(0.6(84/183) + (1-0.6)(84/242)
= -16.7

While it may seem to not be equal since the change in opposite directions is not the same for the winning top player, and bottom losing player, there are more people with bigger negative values on the losing team to counter it.

Sounds confusing but it's actually pretty straight forward and maintains win/loss performance with zero sum movement amounts.

So here's what we're trying to fix. This image below is a data pull of active players in the last 3 months and the current Tier distribution (How many players are currently in each Tier):

As you can see, we have a large number of players in Tier 5 and a relatively flat line of players across Tier 4, 3, 2 and 1. While this 'looks' theoretically okay, the large spike in Tier 5 and even distribution across the other tiers is not ideal when trying to match make players against one another.

With this new system, we're hoping to see the following (orange version) distribution across the playerbase:

In an ideal world, this graph is a bell curve graph. With full zero sum implementation, we might get there.

[color=orange]So here's the rundown of upcoming changes:[/color]

PSR range is being increased from 0-3750, to 0-5000 to allow a little more room for distribution with the new system.
PSR WILL be reset to 2500 for all players.
There is no longer a PSR placement booster for new players/reset players that used to bump players in their first 10 matches.
The new formula for calculating PSR movement is as proposed by the community: W(X) - Y + Y( C(P/A) + (1-C)(P/M) )
The constants used for weighting will be set to X=5, Y=20 and C=0.6.

This change will require a full patch to the client and servers. I do not have a direct ETA but it will be in the VERY near future. I will update this post as soon as I get the estimate tomorrow (Jun 24). This new system is currently being tested by QA and is working as intended. It's not a big patch, just needs to be timed correctly.

[color=orange]UPDATE: ETA is Tuesday June 30th.[/color]

It seems like this change will make the wait time 10 times longer for Tier 5 players. For QP it used to take 1 to 2 mins if not immediately to get into a QP game, not it takes 20 minutes or longer! If this continues, this Tier 5 player won't be playing this game any more because the wait time is ridiculous. Also, I don't think that a Tier 5 player automatically makes them a noob.... Please, just get us in the game in less than 2 minutes.... otherwise why play this game. It is fun, but I am going to wait 20 minutes to play a 2 minute game just because someone things I am a noob (I am not a noob, I played MW2 until Hasbro ruined it with MW3). THis game is similar, but it is fun because of the on line play and maybe not knowing how many noobs you get is a good thing.. it might make you a better player because you end up having to fight 5 mechs for a few seconds instead of boringly shoot people that don't even know that you are shooting at them!

### #322A Flying Biskit

Member

• Fire
• 56 posts

Posted 16 July 2020 - 10:09 AM

This PSR system rewards you for being average. If you're good, or if you're bad, you just don't get to play, because the queue times are utterly ridiculous.

This system is good, in a vacuum. There are not enough good players, there are not enough bad players, there are not enough players for this to work.

As of this post, I've been sitting in the queue for a tier 1 game, as a light mech (lowest pop, according to the counter) for over 10 minutes. At this point, I'd rather run against the entire 228 and EMP comp teams with a bunch of LRM5 Javelins on my team, just so I can actually play the game.

### #323crazytimes

Member

• 805 posts

Posted 17 July 2020 - 09:20 PM

Redeye Sigma, on 16 July 2020 - 09:25 AM, said:

Also, I don't think that a Tier 5 player automatically makes them a noob.... Please, just get us in the game in less than 2 minutes.... otherwise why play this game. It is fun, but I am going to wait 20 minutes to play a 2 minute game just because someone things I am a noob (I am not a noob, I played MW2 until Hasbro ruined it with MW3). THis game is similar, but it is fun because of the on line play and maybe not knowing how many noobs you get is a good thing.. it might make you a better player because you end up having to fight 5 mechs for a few seconds instead of boringly shoot people that don't even know that you are shooting at them!

Mate, I don't know how to break this to you gently, but you are terrible at MWO. There is a reason you are one of the first people to get to tier 5. Your point of wait time being too long is understandable, but in your case you could get out of tier 5 with some basic play adjustments and have access to a much bigger MM pool. Perhaps ask for help somewhere.

### #324Big-G

Member

• The Mercenary
• 175 posts
• LocationFormerly New Capetown, now Kikuyu - Lyran Alliance

Posted 17 July 2020 - 09:49 PM

crazytimes, on 17 July 2020 - 09:20 PM, said:

Mate, I don't know how to break this to you gently, but you are terrible at MWO. There is a reason you are one of the first people to get to tier 5. Your point of wait time being too long is understandable, but in your case you could get out of tier 5 with some basic play adjustments and have access to a much bigger MM pool. Perhaps ask for help somewhere.

This is an arrogant way of looking at it... some people play MWO to have fun with Mechs, basically building and testing. That's the way they play it and who are others to say it's not a worthy endeavour?

### #325crazytimes

Member

• 805 posts

Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:37 PM

Big-G, on 17 July 2020 - 09:49 PM, said:

This is an arrogant way of looking at it... some people play MWO to have fun with Mechs, basically building and testing. That's the way they play it and who are others to say it's not a worthy endeavour?

He was in the bottom 3% last month and was one of the very first handful of people to grind out tier 5. He feels he isn't "noob" and is being unfairly punished by the tier system. I am suggesting perhaps there are issues with his play style that could help him get out of tier 5.

Are... you also tier 5? Apollogies if your tier offends you. It is not a personal thing, it's just a measure of your relative skill position to help MM work.

Edited by crazytimes, 17 July 2020 - 10:38 PM.

### #326Big-G

Member

• The Mercenary
• 175 posts
• LocationFormerly New Capetown, now Kikuyu - Lyran Alliance

Posted 24 July 2020 - 03:51 AM

crazytimes, on 17 July 2020 - 10:37 PM, said:

Are... you also tier 5? Apollogies if your tier offends you. It is not a personal thing, it's just a measure of your relative skill position to help MM work.

Nope, the arrogance is that you think everyone not agreeing with you are tier 5's

### #327Taram

Member

• Philanthropist
• 139 posts
• LocationIn a Battlemech advancing on you.

Posted 24 July 2020 - 07:48 AM

People who have raced to the top (or the bottom) of the queue just need to be patient. As more filter up (and down) to the various tiers those wait times will get better.

Honestly they shouldn't have reset everyone's tiers. They should have left the tiers as-is, adjusted the metric, and then let time sort out where people belong using the new metric rather than dumping everyone in the middle. That would have resulted in a MUCH less painful adjustment period as people drifted into their proper levels for MM. Fewer curb stomps, less wait time, better matches as things adjusted rather than the mess we've had for the past several days (though at least the matches have started to balance out better the past day or two).

Edited by Taram, 24 July 2020 - 07:51 AM.

### #328selfish shellfish

Member

• 66 posts

Posted 24 July 2020 - 09:39 AM

Taram, on 24 July 2020 - 07:48 AM, said:

People who have raced to the top (or the bottom) of the queue just need to be patient. As more filter up (and down) to the various tiers those wait times will get better.

I don't know... I played over 200 matches and despite slight movement the bar stayed remarkably close to the middle of Tier 3.

If we presume that most people are average then we might get a distribution where 60-80 % of the population belongs in Tier 3 and due to the low population there won't be enough people to adequately populate Tiers 1-2 and 4-5.

As for improvements we could place new players in T4 or 5 to boost the population there. I don't know how to help Tier 1-2 though other than letting them loose in Tier 3 matches.

### #329Tarl Cabot

Member

• Tai-sho
• 7,212 posts
• LocationImperial City, Luthien - Draconis Combine

Posted 24 July 2020 - 06:52 PM

selfish shellfish, on 24 July 2020 - 09:39 AM, said:

I don't know... I played over 200 matches and despite slight movement the bar stayed remarkably close to the middle of Tier 3.

If we presume that most people are average then we might get a distribution where 60-80 % of the population belongs in Tier 3 and due to the low population there won't be enough people to adequately populate Tiers 1-2 and 4-5.

As for improvements we could place new players in T4 or 5 to boost the population there. I don't know how to help Tier 1-2 though other than letting them loose in Tier 3 matches.

PGI could have done a partial reseeding, separating the player base between tiers 2-4 based on avg MS over the last 100-300 games. But they didnt, so there are still many potential Tier 1 players in Tier 3 simply due to not cramming in a ton of games and/or grouping up with a tons of games to move out of Tier 3. Nightbird does his daily graphs showing W/L ratio and the percentage of players in each section but there are many players who havent played 50 games with a W/L of 2+ and still in Tier 3 or just moved into Tier 2.

Hell, I am about 15% away from Tier 2 with a 0.85 W/L ratio and avg 283 MS after 61 games, primarily meds. while my alt is only 5% away from Tier 2, 1.35 W/L ratio and avg 275 MS after 95 games, also prim meds.

So it may take a few months to spread people out, potentially longer than it should have if PGI had gone about the reset in a different manner, as well as curbed the group setup some, since it is the merged soup queue in its current form that has likely perturbed players off more than anything else. It may have brought back players who could now drop together with their buddies, whom most certainly not dropping with the competitively then who are facing competitive groups maxing out their tonnage.

### #330OmgKllL

Member

• 30 posts
• LocationMilan - Italy

Posted 27 July 2020 - 12:12 PM

I tried to get a match after some weeks of inactivity, MM is still too much slow, dropped the game again for something else...

### #331Zirconium

Member

• Philanthropist
• 14 posts
• LocationUnited Kingdom

Posted 31 August 2020 - 04:23 AM

I've been in favour of the PSR reset and new method throughout. For me it's generally working, and for someone who drops predominantly solo in T1 the wait times are acceptable.

However, there is one minor issue that I have run into a couple of times today that needs to be addressed - which is how cadets are considered.

I've had multiple games with T1 pilots, including well known strong players and pre-made T1 groups, which after a couple of minutes of queue time due to inadequate players online have included cadets. I've then witnessed them die in the first thirty seconds or walk around the map randomly just as we've all done when we were cadets.

This simply needs to be stopped from happening. Cadets need to be coded into the matchmaker such that do not get pulled into making up the numbers in T2 or T1 matches, with the matchmaker waiting for alternative T1/T2/T3 pilots to use to plug any gaps.

Cadets should only be exposed to T3 pilots, or T3/T4/T5 perhaps, until those first 25 games are up.

### #332Amerith

Rookie

• The Shogun
• 6 posts

Posted 31 August 2020 - 07:02 AM

Zirconium, on 31 August 2020 - 04:23 AM, said:

I

This simply needs to be stopped from happening. Cadets need to be coded into the matchmaker such that do not get pulled into making up the numbers in T2 or T1 matches, with the matchmaker waiting for alternative T1/T2/T3 pilots to use to plug any gaps.

Cadets should only be exposed to T3 pilots, or T3/T4/T5 perhaps, until those first 25 games are up.

Pay attention PGI, this makes sense if you want a viable player base still.

### #333Amerith

Rookie

• The Shogun
• 6 posts

Posted 31 August 2020 - 11:17 AM

I'll be glad when this all levels out, getting really tired of dropping in QP and having 1 assault while the OPfor has 4 or more. Beginning to burn out on the roll stomps this is causing.

### #334Revener

Member

• Urban Commando
• 223 posts
• LocationSvea Rike

Posted 05 December 2020 - 07:38 AM

Well both the old and the new system basically force me to only play mechs that it is easy to do high damage in = assaults.

And now it is even worse because you can even lose PSR even if the team won and not gain any if you lose.

I like playing my pirates banen almost stock (small lasers and MG) + stealth armour. But it is hard to much damage in it. But you still annoy and harass and distract the enemy team and that is actually valuable.

You need a different formula for each weight class of mech, it is annoying to work your *** of ina light mech and then go down in PSR.

Edited by Revener, 05 December 2020 - 07:41 AM.

### #335Revener

Member

• Urban Commando
• 223 posts
• LocationSvea Rike

Posted 06 December 2020 - 09:27 AM

Wow! this system is really penalizing if a teammates walk into your arty strike for no reason other than being stupid.

Should give some leeway on (un)friendly fire, it is not always your own fault.

### #336crazytimes

Member

• 805 posts

Posted 06 December 2020 - 10:44 PM

Revener, on 06 December 2020 - 09:27 AM, said:

Wow! this system is really penalizing if a teammates walk into your arty strike for no reason other than being stupid.

If you are striking your team often enough for it to affect your PSR, then guess what? The team isn't the problem.

### #337GARION26

Member

• Giant Helper
• 274 posts

Posted 08 December 2020 - 11:49 AM

Revener, on 05 December 2020 - 07:38 AM, said:

Well both the old and the new system basically force me to only play mechs that it is easy to do high damage in = assaults.

And now it is even worse because you can even lose PSR even if the team won and not gain any if you lose.

I like playing my pirates banen almost stock (small lasers and MG) + stealth armour. But it is hard to much damage in it. But you still annoy and harass and distract the enemy team and that is actually valuable.

You need a different formula for each weight class of mech, it is annoying to work your *** of ina light mech and then go down in PSR.

Why does the system make you do anything. If you like playing in a locust then play in a locust. If you think the PSR/match score system disadvantages light mechs and advantages assaults - the PSR system dropping lights in PSR downwards over time means you are more likely to get into matches with more players who are approaching the game like you.

You realize the math on the match score is the same math that's always been used for match score and has always effected your C Bill and XP generation - it's always favored people who do a lot of damage.

### #338Revener

Member

• Urban Commando
• 223 posts
• LocationSvea Rike

Posted 16 December 2020 - 07:47 PM

crazytimes, on 06 December 2020 - 10:44 PM, said:

If you are striking your team often enough for it to affect your PSR, then guess what? The team isn't the problem.

I did not say that I did, it is just that I had two matches that would not have affected it downwards if not for the teamdamage.

GARION26, on 08 December 2020 - 11:49 AM, said:

Why does the system make you do anything. If you like playing in a locust then play in a locust. If you think the PSR/match score system disadvantages light mechs and advantages assaults - the PSR system dropping lights in PSR downwards over time means you are more likely to get into matches with more players who are approaching the game like you.

You realize the math on the match score is the same math that's always been used for match score and has always effected your C Bill and XP generation - it's always favored people who do a lot of damage.

Yeah and it was eaiser to get match score before too the more damage you do. It is harder to do enough damage consistently in a light mech.

Edited by Revener, 16 December 2020 - 07:48 PM.

### #339Aidan Crenshaw

Member

• The Mercenary
• 2,536 posts

Posted 16 December 2020 - 11:46 PM

Revener, on 16 December 2020 - 07:47 PM, said:

Yeah and it was eaiser to get match score before too the more damage you do. It is harder to do enough damage consistently in a light mech.

The matchscore formula has not changed in ages. Not sure what you are on about.

### #340Timber Ghost

Member

• The 1 Percent
• 53 posts

Posted 18 December 2020 - 08:13 AM

Now that I have spent more time with this new system, I still think it progresses people too quickly. I feel like I have been getting stomped the last couple weeks. Even when dropping in a group. Yet, I am still climbing in PSR. I was a maxed T1 under the old system. Under the new system, my scores have dropped, but I keep climbing.

Example, according the Jarl's, I am an 89% percentile overall. positive win/ loss ratio, positive k/d ratio. Since I hit T2 under this new system, I have been a 65-75% percentile, negative win/ loss ratio, and about even on K/D ratio. Yet I am still climbing in PSR. (damn, just noticed my average match score is up a bit, lol. May have screwed up my whole argument)

I really figured I would level out in T2, maybe T3. But, I will be a T1 again probly before the first of the year. Oh well, maybe T1 will start showing some decline in PSR, lol. I just hate to get my pixels scratched........

Edited by Timber Ghost, 18 December 2020 - 09:24 AM.

#### 1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users