283 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

thievingmagpi, on 01 July 2020 - 10:53 AM, said:

I noticed you haven't yet addressed which of the dozens of participants in the discussion, people who submitted ideas, people who worked on mathematics etc you'd consider "elite" and which "community" platforms were apparently excluded from said discussion and final proposal.

Sorry, did you ask me something?

[ccrider]

Goddam it people, this is the brown sea. Get outta here with your 10 cent words. Just discuss this in usual forum fashion; git gud, potato, newbie, uninstall. These are acceptable terminology. All the rest is way too highbrow for this particular venue.

[thievingmagpi]

ccrider, on 01 July 2020 - 11:18 AM, said:

Goddam it people, this is the brown sea. Get outta here with your 10 cent words. Just discuss this in usual forum fashion; git gud, potato, newbie, uninstall. These are acceptable terminology. All the rest is way too highbrow for this particular venue.

Stop being so pertinacious

[Nightbird]

thievingmagpi, on 01 July 2020 - 11:19 AM, said:

Stop being so pertinacious

That's the good kind of pertinacious. The bad kind is the one that is harmful, and goes against facts and proof.

The kind kids are known for.

[Nightbird]

thievingmagpi, on 01 July 2020 - 10:50 AM, said:

End of discussion then.

Any model whose suitability is not and/or cannot properly be demonstrated fails as a model.

Please link to where the suitability of Jay Z's model was demonstrated.

[ccrider]

So this system seems a tad weird. With 17 games I have an absolutely amazing .89 w/l a k/d of 1.54 and an average match score of 353 running solo with nothing but arm/lb mechs. I'm working my way up and i play a literal "no shits given" QP play style. I should be moving on down not up. Is match score biased upwards now? Seems like on a loss (haha, like ALL the losses) my average should be lower.

[Ekson Valdez]

@everyone, please keep the discussion constructive and avoid personal attacks

[Nightbird]

ccrider, on 01 July 2020 - 03:49 PM, said:

So this system seems a tad weird. With 17 games I have an absolutely amazing .89 w/l a k/d of 1.54 and an average match score of 353 running solo with nothing but arm/lb mechs. I'm working my way up and i play a literal "no shits given" QP play style. I should be moving on down not up. Is match score biased upwards now? Seems like on a loss (haha, like ALL the losses) my average should be lower.

It's because it's still mostly base on MS. If you run an AMS corsair all the time, I think you can move to Tier 1 with a 0.7WLR and 0.9KDR

[ccrider]

Nightbird, on 02 July 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

It's because it's still mostly base on MS. If you run an AMS corsair all the time, I think you can move to Tier 1 with a 0.7WLR and 0.9KDR

gonna test this hard. Just gonna go beat on people with no regards for winning and get tier 1 with a sub 1 w/l.

[Nightbird]

thievingmagpi, on 01 July 2020 - 10:50 AM, said:

End of discussion then.

Any model whose suitability is not and/or cannot properly be demonstrated fails as a model.

And the system that was adopted was one which was appropriately communicated.

Understanding that a flawed, but generally improved system which works, is better than a good system that can't is important to understanding why the handful of choices were selected.

Nightbird, on 01 July 2020 - 12:54 PM, said:

Please link to where the suitability of Jay Z's model was demonstrated.

Still waiting on the link, unless the communication part is also false?

[Cluster Fox]

Nightbird, on 02 July 2020 - 11:53 AM, said:

Still waiting on the link, unless the communication part is also false?

Alright, you may call this cheating since this is "Jay Z with extra steps" but there it is:

https://mwomercs.com...stabilizing-it/

PSR given by Jay Z's system can fairly represent player skill with properly tuned parameters (not the current ones) and can be stable, independent of # matches played when you add the Stabilizing formula (which is not added).

---

As for the way Jay Z is implemented right now, well it won't work.

Edited by Cluster Fox, 02 July 2020 - 02:45 PM.

[Uakari]

HolyGrail101, on 01 July 2020 - 03:27 AM, said:

We need a major overhaul to Matchscore if the new PSR is going to work. I'm a primary Light Mech pilot that enjoys playing Map and Mode. What is the point of Conquest or Base Capture? Without updating other structural components of the game the only mode for Tier 1's is now Brawl in the middle in the biggest mech possible.

Maybe make K/D less of a thing and make the actual Capping part in a Cap mode's more significant (Among other changes).

I watched 2 Firestarter's base cap win a match and each got less than 80 Matchscore for winning.

I honestly did not look too much into the new psr system, but i can tell you: I was piloting mostly fleas today, did not too much dmg, had no AMS and still went up in my rating half of the time when my team lost.
If you do a bit of work it s a breeze.

[thievingmagpi]

Nightbird, on 02 July 2020 - 11:53 AM, said:

Still waiting on the link, unless the communication part is also false?

It's demonstrable.

His was adopted.

Yours wasn't.

RIP.

[Nightbird]

thievingmagpi, on 02 July 2020 - 06:38 PM, said:

It's demonstrable.

His was adopted.

Yours wasn't.

RIP.

So you're saying there is no evidence?

[thievingmagpi]

Nightbird, on 02 July 2020 - 06:41 PM, said:

So you're saying there is no evidence?

I just did.

It's demonstrable.

His was adopted.

Yours wasn't.

(RIP)

[Nightbird]

thievingmagpi, on 02 July 2020 - 06:42 PM, said:

I just did.

It's demonstrable.

His was adopted.

Yours wasn't.

Thanks for confirming. Jay Z's model did not communicate suitability or demonstrate any improvement.

[thievingmagpi]

Nightbird, on 02 July 2020 - 06:43 PM, said:

Thanks for confirming. Jay Z's model did not communicate suitability or demonstrate any improvement.

If it hadn't, it wouldn't have been selected.

Words are hard.

[OneTeamPlayer]

thievingmagpi, on 02 July 2020 - 06:45 PM, said:

If it hadn't, it wouldn't have been selected.

Words are hard.

Not to insult anyone here, but winning a popular vote doesn't really prove the efficacy of a mathematical system.

Maybe if it were a popular vote of mathematicians, but it was literally anyone who showed up that thread who had a chance to vote.

Heck i made a vote and i didn't even really understand the systems i was voting on (and said so as i made the vote), just that i wanted w/l to be weighted heavily.

"He can't be wrong, he's so popular" only works in middle school.

[thievingmagpi]

OneTeamPlayer, on 02 July 2020 - 06:49 PM, said:

Not to insult anyone here, but winning a popular vote doesn't really prove the efficacy of a mathematical system.



Maybe if it were a popular vote of mathematicians, but it was literally anyone who showed up that thread who had a chance to vote.

Deciding between a number of potential systems to select from wasn't up for "popular vote"

Edited by thievingmagpi, 02 July 2020 - 06:56 PM.

[Nightbird]

thievingmagpi, on 02 July 2020 - 06:56 PM, said:

Deciding between a number of potential systems to select from wasn't up for "popular vote"

The question you brought up is that systems had to communicate suitability. Where is the link to the proof for Jay Z's system? If you say it is selected, it'll be obvious no such proof was presented.