122 replies to this topic

[Dionnsai]

I still see so many pilots who view their Tier ranking as a status symbol. Yes, it kindof is that, but it is mainly there to separate pilots by their performance in matches. In the end, you want high-performing pilots matched against each other, and low performing pilots matched against each other.

If a high performing pilot can get to tier 1 in one day, THIS IS GOOD, this means the matchmaker can put them against like-skill pilots more quickly.

Again, this isn't a trophy, this is ranking pilots for the purposes of matchmaking. We don't care "how" they got their high match score, just that they did, and as a result they will be matched against other pilots with high average match scores in the long run. If somehow they got those high match scores via weak means, guess what, they're going to be pushed back down the tiers by better pilots, because they will be fighting against better pilots.

I can say, when the tiered matchmaking was put back in, suddenly I was fighting against pilots who torso twisted, didn't give me free damage, and generally were far more aggressive than they had been since the reset. Also I'm seeing mostly names I recognize vs names I didn't. As far as I can tell, this is working fairly well so far, but time will tell.

Bottom line, under the current system, if you can't get to tier 1 or tier 2, you probably shouldn't be there and YOU should have better, more fun games if you are playing with other pilots who perform at the same level as you.

Edited by Dionnsai, 17 July 2020 - 07:49 AM.

[Jman5]

Tarl Cabot, on 16 July 2020 - 06:21 PM, said:

I thought that too when comparing some of my matches, but then I started getting the break even the values werent even under 1.0 but were -6.4, -7.2, -4.8. I should have noted that. There are a few others I have to check.

With that said, it would not surprise me if a few of those in the middle of pack are being moved but because they are in the middle, PGI didnt replace the equal size but said player range with the minimum of movement. But then there is the possibility that PGI frak up the formulary somewhere, since we do not see the actual movement amount.

Are you sure you're typing the formula in correctly? The winning and losing teams have slightly different formulas.

It's certainly possible there is a bug. At the very least, I would say that the probable rounding/fudging it does in deciding which icon to use could be considered a bug.

I have screenshots of my EoR screens so I went and looked at all my games that registered as an "=". Using the formulas provided these are the numbers they should have been:

1.5, 0.73, -0.16, -0.13, -0.13, 1.02, 0.13, 0.32, 0.07, -0.2

The two that are greater than one are interesting outliers, but aside from that the rest fall in that less than 1, but greater than -1 range. I didn't get any large disparities like you saw though.

[Dionnsai]

Also.

Stop worrying about the results of ONE match. You will have bad matches.

If you have 10 bad matches and 50 good ones, you will trend upwards.
If you have 50 bad matches and 10 good ones, you will trend downwards.

Your average performance means far more in the long run.

[Horseman]

GuardDogg, on 17 July 2020 - 06:57 AM, said:

When people are looking at my stupid stats, they are looking at my stats before the reset.

You forget where the data for Jarl's List comes from: PGI's public leaderboard.
People can still look at your "stupid stats":https://mwomercs.com...&user=GuardDogg

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After the reset, players raced to T1 in a couple days (up to a week) are now angry as (put the word here), and about to uninstall, give up. because they are not getting their way or others in the way.

Which players supposedly? Are you sure this isn't just a projection on your part?

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I seen a pilot last night fight to T1, and brought down into T2 in one hour.

Sounds like he just wasn't quite good enough to hold his own in T1. Now he will be matched with players more his own speed until he improves to where he won't just break into T1 but will be able to hold his position there. This is a good thing.

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I did earn my way up to T1 in the past, with hard work.

Dude, story time's over. You ground your way to T1 with volume of matches - like many players did - and were consistently being teamed with and against players who vastly outmatched you. Your stats say it clearly: you were not having a good time in T1

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It is suppose to be the best place, but really it isn't.

It is the place for the most competitive players in the queue, where they can fight with others on the same level. For them, that's their happy place. For players who can't cut it, it's not supposed to be.

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Now after the reset, I am proud not to be in the T1 (I am happy in T3), and I can do the stuff I trained many other pilots in MW4 and using it now it MWO, and good at it.

... which is exactly what we were telling you before, and your response was "I earned Tier 1, I deserve to be in Tier 1".

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Noticed a lot of good pilots are not around anymore, since after the reset.

Or maybe they just aren't getting matched with you after Paul tightened the matchmaking brackets.


Anyway. If you really believe yourself as good as you proclaim, build a competitive team and show us all how it's done. As it happens, signups for Trials Of Combat season 2 are open ( https://www.toorname...6/participants/ ).

Edited by Horseman, 17 July 2020 - 10:29 AM.

[GuardDogg]

1.) Hey look, using a medium. Nearly the top 100. Been looking at that many years ago. Was top 10 in some seasons. Now, I do not try much. ;-)

2.) Do not want to give names. None of your business. They have no part of this thread. No need to bring em here. :-)

2.) Man, do not be a problem. You are not one. It was the past, T1 was earned by a lot of players, even yourself. Do not go there (T3), because you will wanting to be buddies with me. People are saying Tiers is a ranking. It isn't (for me anyways).

3.) T1 is a competitive place. A place of angry people. No one wants to be there hearing the salt. And those Salty players are about to give the MWO a uninstall, even hearing... "This game!"




"...which is exactly what we were telling you before, and your response was "I earned Tier 1, deserve to be in Tier 1"

4.) Before the reset, people worked to T1, earned it. (Everyone) Like people being telling me before (even yourself). "You do not belong in T1." you are a loser, you suck, your stats, and other. How am I suppose to react? How would you react? and It is not fair for those who worked to T1 and then hearing/reading bad things. Today the problem persists. T1 players laughing at others on the board. People are acting like it is the best place, of hard effort (not competitive). I am so glad, happy I am not in T1. PGI needs to change "T1" to "Competitive". Then no one will want to go there. That one day (reset day), immediately players got on and fought to T1 from T3. (in one day to a week) Why? Is it embarrassing? Why does everyone want to be in T1 so badly? I can go on forever about the problem. Tiers are not ranks. They are places for what you are. I am not competitive about numbers like match scores, but a warrior in a Mech. That I want to toy with the apposing team, mech maneuvering. ambush, look at the battlefield from the sky (map), recon, intel, mech formations. Now I can do all that, more, and in T3. no nascar, no salts, and some matches are longer than 3+ minutes. Very friendly, admosphere. ;-)

Tiers: Actual places. What is you?

T5: Coffee shop
T4: Truck Stop
T3: Sports and bars.(NHL and football, have a few with buddies, chat/laugh)
T2: Night Club
T1: Strip club (Competitions) <<<<<--------------- LMAO!!

Edited by GuardDogg, 17 July 2020 - 12:29 PM.

[Bud Crue]

GuardDogg, on 17 July 2020 - 12:24 PM, said:

..
.T1 was earned by a lot of players, even yourself. Do not go there (T3), because you will wanting to be buddies with me. People are saying Tiers is a ranking. It isn't (for me anyways).

3.) T1 is a competitive place. A place of angry people. No one wants to be there hearing the salt. And those Salty players are about to give the MWO a uninstall, even hearing... "This game!"

No one "earns" a tier rank/value/number. It is merely a general representation of your PSR value that the MM uses to place you into a match relative to other players. Nothing more. Ideally that actual PSR value will go up and down more under the new zero sum system, as opposed to the old system wherein the PSR value was biased to go upward.

T1 isn't a place where angry people go to play. It is merely a representation of that part of the game's population whose PSR has risen in correspondence with the skill that they have shown in playing the game. Some people are better at the game than others. Those that are really good should have high PSRs corresponding to that high skill level of play. Just like those that are not particularly good should have correspondingly lower PSRs; so that ideally, the MM knows how to distribute the lot across two teams having roughly equal collective PSR values. The tiers are just a short hand way of letting players know where their PSR are in general terms relative to others within the greater community of players.

Why people are bent out of shape about this is beyond me. Playing with those of similar skill is the ideal. Its not some loss of face or the removal of some badge of honor that you "earned". It's just plain ole distributional math. I for one am happy that the MM will hopefully no longer consider my mediocre self as being the same as a top level comp player.

[pattonesque]

GuardDogg post a video of you being a true mech pilot I would love to see what we're all missing here

[thievingmagpi]

pattonesque, on 17 July 2020 - 02:00 PM, said:

GuardDogg post a video of you being a true mech pilot I would love to see what we're all missing here

He was top 10 apparently.

[cougurt]

GuardDogg, on 17 July 2020 - 12:24 PM, said:

4.) Before the reset, people worked to T1, earned it. (Everyone) Like people being telling me before (even yourself). "You do not belong in T1." you are a loser, you suck, your stats, and other. How am I suppose to react? How would you react? and It is not fair for those who worked to T1 and then hearing/reading bad things. Today the problem persists. T1 players laughing at others on the board.

the only people who earned their place in T1 previously were the ones who did so through consistently good play, not the ones who climbed upwards by sheer volume of matches. this was a problem with the PSR system, but PGI left it alone for so long that many have gotten used to the idea of T1 being a reward for grinding out the experience bar, and conflate that experience with being skilled players.

if you want to be T1 then you need to improve as a player and earn it. if not, then you should ideally have a better time where you are currently.

[GuardDogg]

cougurt, on 17 July 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

the only people who earned their place in T1 previously were the ones who did so through consistently good play, not the ones who climbed upwards by sheer volume of matches. this was a problem with the PSR system, but PGI left it alone for so long that many have gotten used to the idea of T1 being a reward for grinding out the experience bar, and conflate that experience with being skilled players.

if you want to be T1 then you need to improve as a player and earn it. if not, then you should ideally have a better time where you are currently.

Why would anyone want to be in T1, is beyond me. [redacted]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 19 July 2020 - 05:28 AM.

[cougurt]

GuardDogg, on 17 July 2020 - 04:32 PM, said:

Why would anyone want to be in T1, is beyond me. [redacted]

you should want to be in whatever tier is appropriate for your skill level. i'm not singling you out, there were a large number of players in T1 who clearly didn't belong there.

toxicity is kind of unavoidable in competitive online games (and much of the internet in general), but compared to most i would say that MWO is generally fairly tame in that regard. i know the block feature is lackluster, but it is an option if you really just can't put up with it. you can also disable text chat/VOIP, though i do understand that's not a perfect solution either.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 19 July 2020 - 05:29 AM.

[Horseman]

GuardDogg, on 17 July 2020 - 12:24 PM, said:

1.) Hey look, using a medium. Nearly the top 100. Been looking at that many years ago. Was top 10 in some seasons.

You are nowhere near top 100 on the medium leaderboard. Name those seasons.

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2.) Do not want to give names. None of your business. They have no part of this thread. No need to bring em here. :-)

You made it my business by bringing it up in the first place. Since you aren't in T1 and you aren't playing T1 players, I simply want to know what is your authoritative source for this supposed knowledge.

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People are saying Tiers is a ranking. It isn't (for me anyways).

Your subjective opinion does not change what they are.

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3.) T1 is a competitive place.

Certainly.

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A place of angry people. No one wants to be there hearing the salt. And those Salty players are about to give the MWO a uninstall, even hearing... "This game!"

Where did that impression come from? Because it has nothing to do with reality.

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Like people being telling me before (even yourself). "You do not belong in T1." you are a loser, you suck, your stats, and other. How am I suppose to react? How would you react?

You were consistently taking things as if they were attacks at your personally rather than assessments of how you were performing in game.
Fact is, your stats were showing that you were outmatched by the opponents you were facing in T1. You weren't having fun, and neither were the other twenty-three players in the same match since statistically your presence in the match was a handicap to whatever team you landed on.
Whether you like it or not, it was a fair assessment that your performance showed the environment in T1 was too demanding for you and that you belonged in a less demanding environment where you'd be facing equal opponents - and one that your change in performance after the PSR reset only serves to confirm.

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PGI needs to change "T1" to "Competitive". Then no one will want to go there.

Actually that's the entire point they wanted to get there: to fight with (and against) equals. There is no fun in an unequal fight and no honor in stomping a vastly inferior opponent.

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I am not competitive about numbers like match scores, but a warrior in a Mech. That I want to toy with the apposing team, mech maneuvering. ambush, look at the battlefield from the sky (map), recon, intel, mech formations. Now I can do all that, more, and in T3. no nascar, no salts, and some matches are longer than 3+ minutes. Very friendly, admosphere. ;-)

And upper tiers can do all that better, with some really damn close matches and far fewer players who haven't quite figured out that "arm lock" thing. See how putting the right players in the right environment makes everyone happier?

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Tiers: Actual places. What is you?
T5: Coffee shop
T4: Truck Stop
T3: Sports and bars.(NHL and football, have a few with buddies, chat/laugh)
T2: Night Club
T1: Strip club (Competitions) <<<<<--------------- LMAO!!

These analogies do not bear out given that someone stepping from a lower Tier into an upper one would be . Try this on for size:
T5: Kindergarten fight
T4: Pro wrestling match
T3: Drunken bar brawl
T2: Martial arts class
T1: MMA championship

GuardDogg, on 17 July 2020 - 04:32 PM, said:

[redacted]

Because what?

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Why only me, not to be there?

Not "only you" but "every player who can't hold his own against the top players".

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[redacted]

The fact you're performing better and enjoying the game more after returning to T3 vindicates every single word they said about it.

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Say that to others.

We have, and often.

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[redacted]

Nope, that's projection on your part. The only toxicity I see here right now is, unfortunately, coming from your direction.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 19 July 2020 - 05:32 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Horseman, on 18 July 2020 - 04:39 AM, said:

These analogies do not bear out given that someone stepping from a lower Tier into an upper one would be . Try this on for size:
T5: Kindergarten fight
T4: Pro wrestling match
T3: Drunken bar brawl
T2: Martial arts class
T1: MMA championshipBecause what?

You're getting them wrong:

T5: Kindergarten fight
T4: Mosh Pit
T3: Bar Brawl
T2: Wrestling Match
T1: Gang Warfare

MMA is the Solaris crowd: "1v1 me bro!"

[GuardDogg]

pattonesque, on 17 July 2020 - 02:00 PM, said:

GuardDogg post a video of you being a true mech pilot I would love to see what we're all missing here

My very first video on internet. So bare with me on this (nervous, because of the back lash here). This is how I Mech fight, and trained in MW4. Although in MWO I use these alone. My NS13 clan mates, dunno where they are. We used training stuff heavily. Everyone went their own ways. Was hoping for their return (The clan). NukeSylo-Thirteen...but. I have educated them a lot. Not only battle, but how to use their mechs, avoid hitting other mechs, Formations, and weapon usage. More. I am able to use these tactics and more in T3 with joy, but in T1...nope. T1 is suppose to be advanced....
But what ever...Hope you enjoy video.

https://youtu.be/1BhP-JMtsCw

Edited by GuardDogg, 19 July 2020 - 03:56 AM.

[caseysrevenge]

Tja the thing is when youre in a group that does mediocre and you are a little bit better then the rest and group loses you go down when the group wins you go up.When youre in a group with players around youre skill level by win you go up or a = by a loss it will be a = or a minus when the winning group has high level players.
The matchmaker is very uneven in this at the moment,it even depends on what time of day it is.At evening i get the most strange drops.

[LordNothing]

under the old system i bounced off the 2/3 boundary several times before it stuck.

[Jman5]

GuardDogg, on 19 July 2020 - 03:47 AM, said:

My very first video on internet. So bare with me on this (nervous, because of the back lash here). This is how I Mech fight, and trained in MW4. Although in MWO I use these alone. My NS13 clan mates, dunno where they are. We used training stuff heavily. Everyone went their own ways. Was hoping for their return (The clan). NukeSylo-Thirteen...but. I have educated them a lot. Not only battle, but how to use their mechs, avoid hitting other mechs, Formations, and weapon usage. More. I am able to use these tactics and more in T3 with joy, but in T1...nope. T1 is suppose to be advanced....
But what ever...Hope you enjoy video.

https://youtu.be/1BhP-JMtsCw

Do you want some suggestions?

[GuardDogg]

Ok, will delete video. I know some errors on the mech (grouping, weapons). Do not need suggestions. No more training videos. You guys are good already "T1". Was up till 6 in the morning making it, and then putting it up.

Edited by GuardDogg, 19 July 2020 - 11:18 AM.

[JediPanther]

Doesn't matter how good you are when the 11 others of your team die within minutes. Show me a video of one person solo-ing half or more of the enemy team in an 0-11 skirmish match in qp only. That is impossible.

[pattonesque]

GuardDogg, on 19 July 2020 - 11:11 AM, said:

Ok, will delete video. I know some errors on the mech (grouping, weapons). Do not need suggestions. No more training videos. You guys are good already "T1". Was up till 6 in the morning making it, and then putting it up.

I mean if you posted and deleted it after one person looked at it then I'm curious what about it was "true mech piloting." like I still don't know what you mean by that