29 replies to this topic

[Vyx]

Simple yet radical ideas to breathe new life into this minimally viable game.

1. Random Spawn Locations – Each map identifies 6 spawn locations per side (we have 3 identified per side now, so just 3 more suitable spawn locations for each side for each map need to be found). When the match starts, each side has 3 of the locations randomly chosen (out of the six) for their lances (alpha, bravo, charlie) to use. This change would vary the tactics and play of each map quite a bit.

2. Mixed-Tech – Mechs can be built using both Clan and Inner-sphere Technology. Cross-tech weapons/ammo/heatsinks/engines/components cost 3x the normal value to buy (being expensive; hard to obtain). Cross-tech weapons and heatsinks cost 1 additional slot to integrate. Cross-tech engines cost 2 additional slots to integrate. This change would shake-up metas and allow for more build flexibility while still not being too over the top.

3. Lobby-Based Drop – The whole map selection process changes to the following: 1) solos and groups fill a chat lobby until 12 players are achieved (called a “side”), 2) the lobby shows a pre-selected map (crimson, HPG, etc.) and a goal (skirmish, assault, etc.) – this is the “mission”, 3) the mission cannot be changed and is obviously known ahead of time, 4) 2 sides are assigned the same mission – these sides are “opponents”, 5) opponents can see membership (players), but not specific Mechs, 6) players can choose to chat openly between sides or within their side so that only their side can see, 7) players on each side have 5 minutes to determine a strategy, select leaders, and select a mech to best achieve the mission, 8) players ready up, 9) when a leader readies, they automatically ready their side, 10) when both sides are ready or the timer is up, the match begins. This change would permit a greater level of strategy in this “thinking man’s shooter” by knowing the map and mission ahead of time and then making mech selections based on leadership and input from others on your side.

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Just a few. Any others? Any comments to the above?

[Nesutizale]

• That could lead to some problems. First of some spawnpoints aren't good for slow mechs like assaults. Secondly, from what I understand spawnpoints could be mixed/alter between teams so you could have:
  Point 1 Team A, Point 2 Team A Point 3 Team B...if the Team B is slow assaults Team A can easly overrun them.
  
  So at least you would have to make sure that spawnpoints are grouped like Point 1-3 is Team A, Point 4-6 is Team B or Point 3,4,5 are A, Point 6,1,2 are B. So the team is close together.
  
  An alternative could be that an entire team spawns near one of the 6 points at random. For example Team A spawns around Point 2 while Team B spawns around Point 5.
  
  Another concern is that, depending on the mode you play, getting to the objective might be problematic. Sure lots of people ignore it but for the few times they do...haveing a team that is dropping far from it would have a big disadvantage.
  
• No mix tech, no.
  
• You mean FW?

[martian]

One or two points, if I may ...

Vyx, on 17 July 2020 - 09:44 AM, said:

Simple yet radical ideas to breathe new life into this minimally viable game.

1. Random Spawn Locations – Each map identifies 6 spawn locations per side (we have 3 identified per side now, so just 3 more suitable spawn locations for each side for each map need to be found). When the match starts, each side has 3 of the locations randomly chosen (out of the six) for their lances (alpha, bravo, charlie) to use. This change would vary the tactics and play of each map quite a bit.

Do you know what would happen? Players would spend 2-3 minutes creating one murderball - just like they do now.

And in case that one slow/heavy lance would spawn randomly in the vicinity of the main enemy force, this lance would die quickly ... just like many slow 'Mechs die if they spawn just in the way of enemy murderball on HPG Manifold.

Vyx, on 17 July 2020 - 09:44 AM, said:

2. Mixed-Tech – Mechs can be built using both Clan and Inner-sphere Technology. Cross-tech weapons/ammo/heatsinks/engines/components cost 3x the normal value to buy (being expensive; hard to obtain). Cross-tech weapons and heatsinks cost 1 additional slot to integrate. Cross-tech engines cost 2 additional slots to integrate. This change would shake-up metas and allow for more build flexibility while still not being too over the top.

As they say:" You can not destroy the meta, you can only change it."

After two days MWO would be full of new meta-Mechs taking the best from both technology bases, combining ... dunno ... IS lasers with Clan missiles and filled with Clan DHS, etc. Just example.

Plus, veteran players have so many C-Bills that they can burn them, while novice players could not afford such upgrades.

Vyx, on 17 July 2020 - 09:44 AM, said:

3. Lobby-Based Drop – The whole map selection process changes to the following: 1) solos and groups fill a chat lobby until 12 players are achieved (called a “side”), 2) the lobby shows a pre-selected map (crimson, HPG, etc.) and a goal (skirmish, assault, etc.) – this is the “mission”, 3) the mission cannot be changed and is obviously known ahead of time, 4) 2 sides are assigned the same mission – these sides are “opponents”, 5) opponents can see membership (players), but not specific Mechs, 6) players can choose to chat openly between sides or within their side so that only their side can see, 7) players on each side have 5 minutes to determine a strategy, select leaders, and select a mech to best achieve the mission, 8) players ready up, 9) when a leader readies, they automatically ready their side, 10) when both sides are ready or the timer is up, the match begins. This change would permit a greater level of strategy in this “thinking man’s shooter” by knowing the map and mission ahead of time and then making mech selections based on leadership and input from others on your side.

You mean, Polar Highlands where every single player gets the opportunity to take his strongest Lurm-'Mech? This could be fun for once, but I would not want to see such optimization in every single mission on every single map.

Plus, do not you think that new players that have a small number of unskilled 'Mechs or use Trial 'Mechs would be in distinct disadvantage?

[Vyx]

How about another?

4. Stomp Containment Reinforcement Automation Protocol (SCRAP) – Any match that reaches 7-0, 8-1, 9-2, 10-3, or 11-4 status immediately invokes SCRAP mode (if it has already not been invoked). The side losing presents 1-4 randomly selected, already-eliminated players with a pop-up asking if they wish to re-join the match in a random trial mech (6 seconds to respond). At the end of these 6 seconds, a new dropship enters the game on the losing side and drops off the SCRAP reinforcements who responded in the affirm. This would add some excitement to an otherwise disheartening match by giving the losing side one last chance for redemption.

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I'll wait to respond to the replies above until we get some more input.

[Jman5]

Vyx, on 17 July 2020 - 11:34 AM, said:

How about another?

4. Stomp Containment Reinforcement Automation Protocol (SCRAP) – Any match that reaches 7-0, 8-1, 9-2, 10-3, or 11-4 status immediately invokes SCRAP mode (if it has already not been invoked). The side losing presents 1-4 randomly selected, already-eliminated players with a pop-up asking if they wish to re-join the match in a random trial mech (6 seconds to respond). At the end of these 6 seconds, a new dropship enters the game on the losing side and drops off the SCRAP reinforcements who responded in the affirm. This would add some excitement to an otherwise disheartening match by giving the losing side one last chance for redemption.

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I'll wait to respond to the replies above until we get some more input.

My unpopular opinion related to this is to just allow the first two people who die per side to redrop in a light or medium mech. Extends the game length a little bit and gives some of the weaker players on your team a chance to redeem themselves.

Edited by Jman5, 17 July 2020 - 01:13 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Mixed tech is never going to happen. And it's probably beyond the coding abilities at this point. That being said, I'd happily put RACs on a Blood Asp. Maybe that's why.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Vyx, on 17 July 2020 - 11:34 AM, said:

How about another?

4. Stomp Containment Reinforcement Automation Protocol (SCRAP) – Any match that reaches 7-0, 8-1, 9-2, 10-3, or 11-4 status immediately invokes SCRAP mode (if it has already not been invoked). The side losing presents 1-4 randomly selected, already-eliminated players with a pop-up asking if they wish to re-join the match in a random trial mech (6 seconds to respond). At the end of these 6 seconds, a new dropship enters the game on the losing side and drops off the SCRAP reinforcements who responded in the affirm. This would add some excitement to an otherwise disheartening match by giving the losing side one last chance for redemption.

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I'll wait to respond to the replies above until we get some more input.

What you probably don’t realize is that the excitement you just introduced is already in Faction Warfare....it’s called “drop zone farming” and it’s not an excitement for the side you want it to be for.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 17 July 2020 - 02:04 PM.

[Nesutizale]

If you want and "easy" mode then just pull over Conquest from FW with unlimited drops so everyone can play the objectives.

[thievingmagpi]

8v8 group queue, allow solos.

No groups in QP

Adopt community balance proposal.

And let's not even get started on community map development.

[3ull5hit]

Well, as much as I love the game as it is, I would love to see those ideas implemented:

- Actual support of colorblind people - including changing the color of the HUD, as well as colors at the damage paperdoll. I would love to be able to make map at battlegrid less bright.

- Crouching - says for itself.

- Melee combat - that is a feature that will make some mechs much more viable and will add another dimension to the game.

- Inertia - even with heavier mechs, while running forward, got hit from the back with great force should result with at least going unstable, stumble, trying to leg up the speed. I believe lights can fall after serious salvo, though i saw it on movies, i haven't experienced it by myself.

Honorable mention -
new maps (i will not even get started on community map dev)

[ScrapIron Prime]

You know melee combat isn't going to work unless they get a new game engine... which is essentially an entirely new game. You'll know its coming if they ever add melee combat to MW5... since that's on a new game engine.

Also... nice mini necro.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 18 August 2021 - 10:02 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

ScrapIron Prime, on 18 August 2021 - 10:02 AM, said:

You know melee combat isn't going to work unless they get a new game engine... which is essentially an entirely new game. You'll know its coming if they ever add melee combat to MW5... since that's on a new game engine.

Also... nice mini necro.

Very simple melee already in the game you take a tiny bit of damage when you run into someone. Increase this 10 times and be based off the speed * mass.
Any mech without weapons would still have something to do. Any game where both sides run out of ammo would be able to fight it out. Then i bet we could increase on this. For example death from above increase the damage even more if mech is over the top of the other mech.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 August 2021 - 01:14 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Monkey Lover, on 18 August 2021 - 01:12 PM, said:

Very simple melee already in the game you take a tiny bit of damage when you run into someone. Increase this 10 times and be based off the speed * mass.
Any mech without weapons would still have something to do. Any game where both sides run out of ammo would be able to fight it out. Then i bet we could increase on this. For example death from above increase the damage even more if mech is over the top of the other mech.

Nah, bumping into each other is not the punching and kicking that we want, and it’s certainly not a Hatchetman or Yen Lo Wang cleaving into someone!

[Monkey Lover]

ScrapIron Prime, on 18 August 2021 - 05:01 PM, said:

Nah, bumping into each other is not the punching and kicking that we want, and it’s certainly not a Hatchetman or Yen Lo Wang cleaving into someone!

What you want but not what were going to get just as you said.. I take ramming anyway over nothing when you have no weapons. Even without programmers they should be able to increase the damage

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 August 2021 - 05:16 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Monkey Lover, on 18 August 2021 - 05:15 PM, said:

What you want but not what were going to get just as you said.. I take ramming anyway over nothing when you have no weapons. Even without programmers they should be able to increase the damage

Well then they better spread the spawn points out a little. Having team members trip and mangle each other at the beginning of the match…

[Monkey Lover]

ScrapIron Prime, on 18 August 2021 - 05:57 PM, said:

Well then they better spread the spawn points out a little. Having team members trip and mangle each other at the beginning of the match…

This is one of the reasons I was think speed x mass would be helpful. At the start we should be going much slower. I think spreading out a little wouldn't be bad idea too.

[Bamboozle Gold]

ScrapIron Prime, on 18 August 2021 - 10:02 AM, said:

You know melee combat isn't going to work unless they get a new game engine... which is essentially an entirely new game. You'll know its coming if they ever add melee combat to MW5... since that's on a new game engine.

Melee could be implemented as a range 30 no ammo required, no added weight AC10 that replaces hand actuators on a mech. I don't think it'd necessarily be good but hey.

There was that hilarious vid when they were testing the ramming functionality.
Look at the beautiful de-syncs and ragdolling

[3ull5hit]

Great scott, so it is possible. Ramming, if properly balanced and if they would put some work into it, could be great.

Also, I dont believe programming "empty" weapon with range of 20, adding "punch" animation and some fixed, little damage would be over the abilities of Piranhas. And it would add another taste to the game.

Crouching, guys. how cool could it be? Just imagine, going prone with raven and turning off engine!

But I want the easiest thing the most - Hud colors...please...

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Quote

1. Random Spawn Locations

I think you overestimate the impact this would have, people still tend to move towards certain map features regardless of spawn locations. I forget which gamemode it is but on River City there is a set of spawns that doesn't make the citadel the central point yet people still move towards it.

Quote

2. Mixed-Tech

Mixed tech would require the entire game to be rebalanced to factor this in.

Quote

3. Lobby-Based Drop

This is what faction is for, as someone who only plays QP I don't want the trappings of FP to be forced on me when I just want to pick a mech I like and go have a match. There are also more obvious issues like this system favouring people who invest into the game and can have a larger selection of specialised mechs, to link into that you'll be giving players the situation of whether they want to run something they enjoy or the winning build.

Monkey Lover, on 18 August 2021 - 10:33 PM, said:

Increase this 10 times and be based off the speed * mass.

Mech 5 actually has massively increased collision damage and it only serves to be incredibly annoying to bump into an enemy mech and watch your arm get stripped.

Edited by My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, 19 August 2021 - 04:48 AM.

[pbiggz]

Lets break this down a little.

My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, on 19 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

I think you overestimate the impact this would have, people still tend to move towards certain map features regardless of spawn locations. I forget which gamemode it is but on River City there is a set of spawns that doesn't make the citadel the central point yet people still move towards it.

When people ask for "random" spawns, they don't want random spawns. What they want are different spawns every match. The best way in my view to do that is to have different sets of spawns (one set puts both teams in opposite corners, another puts them along the sides, another puts them all against the top, so on so forth). These spawns would have to be manually set and balanced for each match, but that really isn't that much work.

However, this is only one part of the puzzle. People think random spawns will encourage fighting on different parts of the map. That is not really the full story because as you said, people gravitate towards the centre anyway. They wont if you move the objectives around. That means putting conquest points in different locations. That means putting the domination point in *gasps* not the dead centre of the map.

What really needs to be done is each map needs a set of different spawn points and objective points, all balanced against one another.

My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, on 19 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

Mixed tech would require the entire game to be rebalanced to factor this in.

Agreed.

My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, on 19 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

This is what faction is for, as someone who only plays QP I don't want the trappings of FP to be forced on me when I just want to pick a mech I like and go have a match. There are also more obvious issues like this system favouring people who invest into the game and can have a larger selection of specialised mechs, to link into that you'll be giving players the situation of whether they want to run something they enjoy or the winning build.

I disagree with this heavily. A huge part of mechwarriors past has been tailoring mechs to certain conditions. The centre of a player's mechlab should be their dropdeck. They should be able to select a set of 4 mechs, kitted out for the environment they will be dropping in. Without this, currently, the meta is dominated by generalists that do ok on every map. Laser vomit and dakka are common because they kind of work everywhere. Some maps worse than others, but still, they're functional. Ever drop a brawler on alpine? It's a bad time.

This is a case of people pushing back against a good change because they're so used to not having a nice thing.

My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, on 19 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

Mech 5 actually has massively increased collision damage and it only serves to be incredibly annoying to bump into an enemy mech and watch your arm get stripped.

Melee may well be outside the bounds of this engine. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.