22 replies to this topic

[TheBlackBear]

Why is 4 AMS not available for every mech? lrms can sit back out of harms way countering any other weapon system in the game expect other lrms, so why can't every mech have a way to counter that by wasting their tonnage/slots, it would make for a nice risk reward.

Edited by TheBlackBear, 27 July 2020 - 08:30 PM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Because.

[OmniFail]

AMS requires zero skill and offers a disparaging tonnage inbalance vs the investment needed for all the missle systems that it counters.

Learn to shoot UAVs and spotters tunnel vision noob.

[TheBlackBear]

OmniFail, on 27 July 2020 - 08:48 PM, said:

AMS requires zero skill and offers a disparaging tonnage inbalance vs the investment needed for all the missle systems that it counters.

Learn to shoot UAVs and spotters tunnel vision noob.

Ams requires skill, in order to fit lets say 4 into all your builds would require you to make sacrifices else where be it speed, armor,firepower, ammo and heat sinks making you have to work harder in a game "Skill" to be as efficient as without it, with the added chance of it all being wasted tons/slots, which is a risk for the player.

Edited by TheBlackBear, 27 July 2020 - 10:28 PM.

[martian]

TheBlackBear, on 27 July 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:

Why is 4 AMS not available for every mech? lrms can sit back out of harms way countering any other weapon system in the game expect other lrms, so why can't every mech have a way to counter that by wasting their tonnage/slots, it would make for a nice risk reward.

Because neutralizing all LRMs completely and significantly reducing the effectiveness of all other missile systems would be a little too much, even for PGI.

TheBlackBear, on 27 July 2020 - 10:14 PM, said:

Ams requires skill ...

I beg to differ.

The only in-game skill you need when having AMS on your 'Mech is using the ON/OFF switch.

Edited by martian, 27 July 2020 - 10:35 PM.

[TheBlackBear]

martian, on 27 July 2020 - 10:35 PM, said:

Because neutralizing all LRMs completely and significantly reducing the effectiveness of all other missile systems would be a little too much, even for PGI.

1 ams system at best destroys 1 srm missile or potentially two if moving away and its the same for streaks losing 4 missile at min and 8 at max isn't significant

martian, on 27 July 2020 - 10:35 PM, said:

I beg to differ.

The only in-game skill you need when having AMS on your 'Mech is using the ON/OFF switch.

you read the rest of the post or just the first part?

[martian]

TheBlackBear, on 27 July 2020 - 10:48 PM, said:

1 ams system at best destroys 1 srm missile or potentially two if moving away and its the same for streaks losing 4 missile at min and 8 at max isn't significant

Do you realize that a pair of enemy Corsairs with 8 AMS can seriously reduce LRMs or ATMs, especially if other enemy players add their own AMS/LAMS? Now imagine that the enemy team would field not 8-10 AMS, but 30-40 AMS total (if not more)...

How many missiles of any kind would get through?

TheBlackBear, on 27 July 2020 - 10:48 PM, said:

you read the rest of the post or just the first part?

I read the rest of the post and I had a good laugh. Mouse dragging equipment in a 'Mech Lab is a show of skill? Really?

What next? Placing Heat Sinks is skill too? What about renaming my 'Mech? Will I get some skill points for that too?

Edited by martian, 27 July 2020 - 11:08 PM.

[TheBlackBear]

martian, on 27 July 2020 - 11:07 PM, said:

Do you realize that a pair of enemy Corsairs with 8 AMS can seriously reduce LRMs or ATMs, especially if other enemy players add their own AMS/LAMS? Now imagine that the enemy team would field not 8-10 AMS, but 30-40 AMS total (if not more)...

How many missiles of any kind would get through?

that's 30-40 slots/tonnage and that's not counting ammo slots needed to fill those ams not being used on other things which can be useless if no one brings missiles.

martian, on 27 July 2020 - 11:07 PM, said:

I read the rest of the post and I had a good laugh. Mouse dragging equipment in a 'Mech Lab is a show of skill? Really?

What next? Placing Heat Sinks is skill too? What about renaming my 'Mech? Will I get some skill points for that too?

Oh it's your reading comprehension that's off. Try reading it again?

[martian]

TheBlackBear, on 27 July 2020 - 11:22 PM, said:

that's 30-40 slots/tonnage and that's not counting ammo slots needed to fill those ams not being used on other things which can be useless if no one brings missiles.

That can be said about any other 'Mech Lab item - Heat sinks, ammo, ECM, BAP, etc. Maybe you will need it on some map and against some enemy, maybe not. Nobody pretends that it is some special skill.

TheBlackBear, on 27 July 2020 - 11:22 PM, said:

Oh it's your reading comprehension that's off. Try reading it again?

LOL. You must make some design sacrifices, whenever you are designing a 'Mech.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Consider this: AMS hardpoints are balanced against the other hardpoints a chassis has. Inflating the number of AMS hardpoints on every chassis will throw this balance right over board. Not to mention the death of several playstyles if every mech runs around with an irondome. I vote for bad idea.

[TheBlackBear]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 28 July 2020 - 12:02 AM, said:

Consider this: AMS hardpoints are balanced against the other hardpoints a chassis has. Inflating the number of AMS hardpoints on every chassis will throw this balance right over board. Not to mention the death of several playstyles if every mech runs around with an irondome. I vote for bad idea.

If that really is the case then maybe for every added ams hardpoint you need to sacrifice a weapon hardpoint, like if you have 1 ams, 1 balistic in your left side and 2 missile in your right , you can sacrifice both the ballistic and missile points for ams points instead, that way it keeps the balance intact. (that's just one example.)

[TheBlackBear]

martian, on 27 July 2020 - 11:51 PM, said:

That can be said about any other 'Mech Lab item - Heat sinks, ammo, ECM, BAP, etc. Maybe you will need it on some map and against some enemy, maybe not. Nobody pretends that it is some special skill.


LOL. You must make some design sacrifices, whenever you are designing a 'Mech.

You still didn't get it, keep trying though I'm patient

[Karr Donovan]

Can you imagine if 12 people had 1 ams each and stuck togheter? man that would be op against missiles.

Edit: Ops, posted this from my IS account...whatever.

Edited by Karr Donovan, 28 July 2020 - 03:20 AM.

[Nesutizale]

Oh I can allready see people running AMS only builds, wondering why they don't do any damage

@OP
On a more seriouse side. When you complain about not every mech haveing 4xAMS then also start complainging about not every mech haveing 4xBallstic, 4xEnergie and so on hardpoints. You could argue as well that it takes "skill" to build your mech and stuff.

In the end choosing a mech and what comes with it is a choice you make. You want more AMS, play a mech with AMS, you want more ballistics, pick one with lots of ballistics.
Its what makes the game interesting. What brings different chassis to the battlefield and forces you to adapt in your playstyle as well as how you act on the battlefield.

When every mech has an unlimited loadout every mech just becomes a copy of the next one. No diversity, no interesting gameplay.

So no, your idea would be the beginning of a seriouse downgrade of the gameplay.

Karr Donovan, on 28 July 2020 - 03:20 AM, said:

Can you imagine if 12 people had 1 ams each and stuck togheter? man that would be op against missiles.

Is that what allready happens? I mean there are soooo many mechs with AMS there is hardly any game where there isn't AMS cover from half the team.

Edited by Nesutizale, 28 July 2020 - 03:24 AM.

[Willard Phule]

TheBlackBear, on 27 July 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:

Why is 4 AMS not available for every mech? lrms can sit back out of harms way countering any other weapon system in the game expect other lrms, so why can't every mech have a way to counter that by wasting their tonnage/slots, it would make for a nice risk reward.

Because PGI decided to interpret set BattleTech and MechWarrior construction rules as they saw fit. It's the same reason engines can't be swapped on Omnis.

If you look back at the chassis in chronological order that they were released, you'll notice the early 'mechs didn't have any AMS at all in most cases. As the lurmageddon took hold, more and more chassis were made available with multiple AMS.

[LordNothing]

there is one counter that hide in the rear in slow lermboat pilots never consider: legs. if you can simply walk up to them and shoot them repeatedly with the most humiliating weapon possible, take as much time as you need, you will still make short work of that boat and its own team wont care that it died.

i also like to practice the 50/50 rule when i lerm (not very often). back every point of lrm damage with backup weapon damage. that way you have options when you cant get any locks, or get caught lerming and find yourself in cqb.

also consider medium lerm boats. they are far more deadly than assault missile boats, despite less tubes and less missiles and more everything else. people cut engine for tubes and/or ammo and that's a mistake. mediums allow you to move fast and send lerms from an optimal location as opposed to a sub-optimal one (in the back, away from your team).

[Nesutizale]

Ah bait LRMing....very funny. Had a build once where I put in some LRM5 just to make people think I am LRMing hard...then they come around and faced my Laservomit.
Also seen it by someone else who combined small LRMs with lots of Dakka. Also very fun when people come around to face dual AC20, I guess it was? Well he one shootet people so it was most likely the biggest AC he could still fit in.

[O L L O]

Nesutizale, on 28 July 2020 - 03:23 AM, said:

Oh I can allready see people running AMS only builds, wondering why they don't do any damage

But what a match score!

[BTGbullseye]

O L L O, on 28 July 2020 - 10:09 AM, said:

But what a match score!

Not if the enemy doesn't bring missiles...

[chevy42083]

I always consider AMS to be something that the team should have as a whole... but no one person needs a TON of it. You shouldn't normally be going against a LRM team... your group just needs to defend against the occasional blast, or MAYBE a pair of boaters. And you don't have to neutralize the LRMs... just make sure they don't squash you like a bug.

Yup... I have an archer with LRMs.... and a surprising amount of MRM too
To be honest, it runs hot. BUT... they are usually backing away from the MRM by then and I can just keep up a MUCH slower rate of fire as I back away too.

Edited by chevy42083, 28 July 2020 - 01:01 PM.