42 replies to this topic

[SilentScreamer]

RickySpanish, on 20 August 2020 - 12:15 PM, said:

MWO objectives are a joke because they were coupled with no respawns, so yes of course in that case people will vote them out because it gets in the way of the only objective that carries weight - killing.

Except for the matches where your team looses because they ignored objectives. A good player should constantly assess the situation to determine whether objective style play or Rambo-style play is needed and communicate.

You can win with either Objective or Rambo-play style...anyone who particpated in Beta releases of Community Warfare should remember
1) hordes of Firestarters jumpjetting over the barrier doors to rush the orbital cannon was very popular among organized teams.
2) spawn farming the other team was sometimes than trying to c8mplete objectives

Both examples were extreme of playstyle, one required specialized tactics and mechs. Specialization has advantages, but if your are playing "Paper" you better hope your opponent doesn't play "Scissors".

Regarding the Original post...

Damage is not the only thing that is important in match. But the better you play the higher your Damage and Matchscore should be.
- If your mech is destroyed quickly in match
- If you survive match but loose on objectives
- If you are the last one killed but have low damage
You probably weren't where your team needed you when they needed you to be there. Stick closer to your teamates and pay attention if they say something important over coms.

There are multiple playstyles which help your team, the MVP isn't always the pilot with the highest damage, but it never hurts your team and match to get in a few more shots on your opponents.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 20 August 2020 - 03:15 PM.

[Davegt27]

Quote

You compete only because you want to compete.

Otherwise simply play and do no not care about stats, match score, kills, damage, PSR, etc.
It is as simple as this.

Eventually you will drift to Tier 4 or Tier 5 where people do not care about winning, losing, where they do not run most effective builds, etc., where people are not forced to produce results, etc.

You will move to a place where people are having fun and are not stressed.</div>

I like the subtle slam

there is no such place in MWO
produce results or get out that is MWO's mission statement

if you drop with people you will either discover for your self or be told
produce or leave

I am trying to point out you could have 30,000 people actively people playing MWO
or the few thousand we have now

it is a hard point to get across

if I put up 10 examples its human nature to try to pick apart the examples without understanding the point

the point is you can have a fun exciting game without it being competitive
more accurately you want the different sides to compete for the win, not people on the same side competing

why my damage taken is important I still cant figure out (but its important to PGI for some reason or why put it up)

damage output is also not important in a noncompetitive game (especially when someone else controls the numbers)
now if you want players fighting and bickering with each other then go ahead put the damage numbers up

spend some time watching MWO in action to see for yourself

https://www.twitch.t...arrior%20Online

again a hard point to get across or where did PGI go wrong with there implementation of MWO

its sort of like the heat mechanic in this game
when does the heat mechanic become to much and kills game play

or one of my favorites is to slow down the game by increasing the cool down
now you drop into a match and your lucky to pull the trigger 6 times
and the player is like WTF am I doing here

food for thought in any future games

Edited by Davegt27, 20 August 2020 - 03:54 PM.

[Capt Deadpool]

Jagergrenadiere, on 18 August 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

Who came up with the idea to make this game all about damage?

All about damages???

*tickles red team affectionately with several small lasers*

Am I doing this wrong?

<3 <3 <3

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 21 August 2020 - 11:39 AM.

[Zirconium Kaze]

martian, on 20 August 2020 - 09:56 AM, said:

Because respawns have been reserved for Community Warfare, while the casual play Solo queue was designed to be played without respawns?

But since this supposedly "CW End-game content" has flopped completely because of PGI's incomptence ...


1) People do not play MWO because of objectives, they play MWO because they want to smash enemy 'Mechs.
It was very clearly shown during the time when the MWO players were free to pick their favorite game modes.

I would even say that the PGI's decision to force the MWO players to play game modes, that they did not want to play, was one of the reasons why MWO has failed. ....

2) MWO objectives are joke anyway. MWO objectives are "stand in empty square", "stand in empty circle", etc.
Incursion and Escort have always been the less voted modes in my experience too.

If you talk about the objectives in MWO, then this is what PGI can come with.

3) Respawns are nonsense:
I kill you, but my health is reduced to 50%. → You respawn in a fresh 'Mech and you kill me, but I reduce your health to 50% before I die. → Then I respawn in a fresh 'Mech and I go to kill you, but before you die, you reduce my health to 50%. → After that you respawn and return in a fresh 'Mech to the battlefield to kill me, but I reduce your health to 50% ... etc. repeat ad nauseam.

This was one of the reasons why Mektek's servers lost the majority of MechWarrior 4 players, even though the game was totally free to obtain and to play.
After 10 minutes of such game you felt as complete idiot, playing futile game with no end in sight: Kill one player/get killed by the same player/respawn/kill the same player/respawn/get killed by the same player/respawn/kill the same player/ ...

It was no wonder that the players lost interest quickly.

I'm pretty sure people quit playing for other games and cheating happened in mw4.

[VonBruinwald]

Zirconium Kaze, on 20 August 2020 - 08:11 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure people quit playing for other games and cheating happened in mw4.

Other games, yeah. MekTek went dark in 2013, the same year MWO was released.

Don't recall much cheating though; sure there was the fog 'hack' but that got patched out. Most we had to deal with was server trolls as you didn't need to create an account to play and could easily circumvent server bans.

Playing NHUA was pretty much cheat mode anyway. Just imagine MWO running NHUA for a day, now that would be pod-racing!

[Beorning]

I thought Mektek went to work on Heavy Gear Assault, then got duped by some blockheads.

[Zirconium Kaze]

VonBruinwald, on 20 August 2020 - 11:51 PM, said:

Other games, yeah. MekTek went dark in 2013, the same year MWO was released.

Don't recall much cheating though; sure there was the fog 'hack' but that got patched out. Most we had to deal with was server trolls as you didn't need to create an account to play and could easily circumvent server bans.

Playing NHUA was pretty much cheat mode anyway. Just imagine MWO running NHUA for a day, now that would be pod-racing!

I guess you never saw nova cats that could literally fly and that odd hack that sped something up on your computer that caused your mech to animate faster which in turn lagged whoever's server they were on for everyone else. Direwolfs that could walk across the entire map in thrity seconds while the entire server had terrible lag for 30 seconds. Heck, some guys would use the hack to cool off slightly faster behind hills.

Edited by Zirconium Kaze, 22 August 2020 - 09:47 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

Zirconium Kaze, on 22 August 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

I guess you never saw nova cats that could literally fly and that odd hack that sped something up on your computer that caused your mech to animate faster which in turn lagged whoever's server they were on for everyone else. Direwolfs that could walk across the entire map in thrity seconds while the entire server had terrible lag for 30 seconds. Heck, some guys would use the hack to cool off slightly faster behind hills.

I can truly say I saw none of that. I may have encountered lthe ag-hacks/warping but if anything I put it down to my connection as I was still using dial-up at the time. That's not to say I hadn't heard rumours, but like most hackusations in MWO, I never saw evidence.

[Tritous Caraway]

There is definitely an imbalance. I normally play light sniper with an ER PPC. Why? Because a light, agile mech that can get to awkward spots, hit long range, with ECM to hide is a mildly annoying threat....except: PPCs knock out ECM and by hitting targets (not even for huge damage) I can highlight them for the rest of the team to see. That and PPCs in the face are bright and big and dazzle pilots so they can't see.

Result: Low damage, high ability to influence the flow of a battle beyond mere damage. Being able to see what is going on and call commands (ok, that would be hard to rate in a score) and a big ability to negate enemy ECM. The award for tactical maneouvres like that are minor - 1 point here or there (and they rarely make sense: how does sniping count as "hit and run"?)

A light mech is not a damage and kill build but a tactical asset and isn't treated as such. Meanwhile, the wall racks up high damage and all the points. Even on a conquest where I captured all 5 of the resource points and harassed the enemy into confusion so they only killed 1 of our team (we killed 3 of theirs before we won) I got one of the lowest scores. go figure.

Btw: Regarding respawn: very easy to balance. Give everyone a 150T weight limit on respawn. One assault and one medium, 6 lights...choose your balance of mechs. I would go for a light to scout, an assault to clean up when you know what is where, then a light to harass what is left, but I'm sure others would want 2 good identical heavies instead. You could even have a couple of leagues with a 100T, 150T and 200T limit. it's not like the mechanism isn't already there from FP

[RickySpanish]

It's odd how quickplay never implemented a proper pre-match screen where players could coordinate lances and 'Mechs. I can almost hear the "nyerrr dats fer FP nerrrd, QP is fer simpl shootn" cries now, but forcing QP to be more tactical, or at least offering an inbetween solution that didn't require a drop deck, would have been a good idea. Alas, considering they couldn't even get passed implementing red vs blue mechanics I doubt such a complex addition would have been within PGI's capability.

Edited by RickySpanish, 24 August 2020 - 07:21 PM.

[Brauer]

Tritous Caraway, on 24 August 2020 - 10:43 AM, said:

There is definitely an imbalance. I normally play light sniper with an ER PPC. Why? Because a light, agile mech that can get to awkward spots, hit long range, with ECM to hide is a mildly annoying threat....except: PPCs knock out ECM and by hitting targets (not even for huge damage) I can highlight them for the rest of the team to see. That and PPCs in the face are bright and big and dazzle pilots so they can't see.

Result: Low damage, high ability to influence the flow of a battle beyond mere damage. Being able to see what is going on and call commands (ok, that would be hard to rate in a score) and a big ability to negate enemy ECM. The award for tactical maneouvres like that are minor - 1 point here or there (and they rarely make sense: how does sniping count as &quot;hit and run&quot;?)

A light mech is not a damage and kill build but a tactical asset and isn't treated as such. Meanwhile, the wall racks up high damage and all the points. Even on a conquest where I captured all 5 of the resource points and harassed the enemy into confusion so they only killed 1 of our team (we killed 3 of theirs before we won) I got one of the lowest scores. go figure.

Btw: Regarding respawn: very easy to balance. Give everyone a 150T weight limit on respawn. One assault and one medium, 6 lights...choose your balance of mechs. I would go for a light to scout, an assault to clean up when you know what is where, then a light to harass what is left, but I'm sure others would want 2 good identical heavies instead. You could even have a couple of leagues with a 100T, 150T and 200T limit. it's not like the mechanism isn't already there from FP

Lights can and do act as damage dealers very effectively. The wolfhound, urbanmech k-9, javelin, piranha, panther, both Jenner's to a degree, the adder, cougar, and kit fox to some degree, and heck even others like the commando, incubus, and flea. The issue here is more that you are expecting to have much impact with a single erppc light. If I am getting pinged occasionally by a single erppc I'm just going to ignore you and murder everything else before turning my attention to you because a single erppc is not a significant threat compared to everything else out there.

[crazytimes]

Tritous Caraway, on 24 August 2020 - 10:43 AM, said:

There is definitely an imbalance. I normally play light sniper with an ER PPC. Why? Because a light, agile mech that can get to awkward spots, hit long range, with ECM to hide is a mildly annoying threat....

Largely because it's that one mech left at the end hiding when the rest of their team is dead.

Quote

Result: Low damage, high ability to influence the flow of a battle beyond mere damage. Being able to see what is going on and call commands (ok, that would be hard to rate in a score) and a big ability to negate enemy ECM.

There's not many people I would say are capable of doing low damage and still consistently having a positive influence.

Quote

A light mech is not a damage and kill build but a tactical asset and isn't treated as such.

Plenty of lights used for damage. Wolfhound and Urbie do plenty, Piranha is a bit of a higher skill ceiling, but certainly works fine for damage.

[Cherge]

I agree with OP. I am in tier 2 (and pretty quickly rising to T1) by playing a wolfhound with 6xML. Why? Because with 6 not-pulse lasers, I can basically tape down my trigger for maximum dps. And then when I'm spotted, I just run away with great haste. Sure, I make make all their armor orange and destroy no components, but who cares? I get the sweet green up arrow after most games.

Kind of a shame playing this way got incredibly dull.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Tritous Caraway, on 24 August 2020 - 10:43 AM, said:

There is definitely an imbalance. I normally play light sniper with an ER PPC. Why? Because a light, agile mech that can get to awkward spots, hit long range, with ECM to hide is a mildly annoying threat....except: PPCs knock out ECM and by hitting targets (not even for huge damage) I can highlight them for the rest of the team to see. That and PPCs in the face are bright and big and dazzle pilots so they can't see.

Result: Low damage, high ability to influence the flow of a battle beyond mere damage. Being able to see what is going on and call commands (ok, that would be hard to rate in a score) and a big ability to negate enemy ECM. The award for tactical maneouvres like that are minor - 1 point here or there (and they rarely make sense: how does sniping count as &quot;hit and run&quot;?)

A light mech is not a damage and kill build but a tactical asset and isn't treated as such. Meanwhile, the wall racks up high damage and all the points. Even on a conquest where I captured all 5 of the resource points and harassed the enemy into confusion so they only killed 1 of our team (we killed 3 of theirs before we won) I got one of the lowest scores. go figure.

A light sniper is pretty useless in this game. Unless you are really really good and very active (and your low damage by your testimony suggests otherwise) you are the least significant mech on the board. Light snipers give you a warm fuzzy feeling because you tend to survive to the late game, and perhaps get a kill or two on enemy mechs that are red all over by this point - but the game has already been decided without you.

Light mechs do indeed contribute more than raw damage. However, squirling, backstabbing, wolfpacking, uav dropping and surgically removing opened components is not what light snipers do.

[General Solo]

Not every one can handle single PPC light mech.
And make big damage and get kills
If Summoner can do much with 2 PPC, light mech can do a least half with one.

[letir]

OZHomerOZ, on 26 August 2020 - 07:39 AM, said:

Not every one can handle single PPC light mech.
And make big damage and get kills
If Summoner can do much with 2 PPC, light mech can do a least half with one.

Single PPC have damage of medium laser with 4 seconds of CD.

[General Solo]

Single PPC can hit when medium laser cannot because too far away.
Single PPC light mech can kite better than medium laser mech because kite at 270m is hard
Single PPC light mech only for expert aimers

Single PPC light jump mech improve your aim
Light mech Medium laser boat, make you soft

Edit Single PPC 10 damage, medium laser is less, unless to round up to the nearest 10.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 26 August 2020 - 10:12 AM.

[Brauer]

OZHomerOZ, on 26 August 2020 - 08:28 AM, said:

Single PPC can hit when medium laser cannot because too far away.
Single PPC light mech can kite better than medium laser mech because kite at 270m is hard
Single PPC light mech only for expert aimers

Single PPC light jump mech improve your aim
Light mech Medium laser boat, make you soft

Even a ppc light takes more than one ppc.

[letir]

OZHomerOZ, on 26 August 2020 - 08:28 AM, said:

Single PPC can hit when medium laser cannot because too far away.
Single PPC light mech can kite better than medium laser mech because kite at 270m is hard
Single PPC light mech only for expert aimers

Single PPC light jump mech improve your aim
Light mech Medium laser boat, make you soft

Single PPC 'Mech deal pathetic damage and cannot kill ****.

[General Solo]

Brauer, on 26 August 2020 - 08:31 AM, said:

Even a ppc light takes more than one ppc.

True, some lights can do more than one PPC, and so can some mediums and heavies. So just take one of them instead I thinkz.

letir, on 26 August 2020 - 08:36 AM, said:

Single PPC 'Mech deal pathetic damage and cannot kill ****.

Maybe for you