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Psr Is .. I Don't Know, Man.


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#41 Willard Phule

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 01:47 AM

View PostMonkey Lover, on 27 September 2020 - 12:57 PM, said:

The population is too low. I see new tier 3 players in tier 1 team matches all the time now.

The biggest issue I see is pgi will not balance the tonnage. So you end up with teams with tons of weight or tons of speed.

If the team with tons of weight is given time to group up they will win. If the fast team pain trains gets easy kills off one of the side lances first they will win.


Oh, there are SO many variables that play into that mess.

If the fast team isn't organized, walks in front of teammates while they're firing, is full of people that need to stand still before shooting and limits their field of vision by zooming in close quarters, the fat deathball will just turn around and eat them one at a time as they lemming into the field of death. But, wait, it gets better.

If the heavy team deathballs, it runs the risk of stopping once it receives fire, then backing into itself while the LRM assaults push forward to "get that lock." It almost needs a Benny Hill soundtrack.

What makes the entire debacle even better than that is that this was obviously done on purpose. It wasn't nearly this bad until they let the uberleet group players into the mix. Sure, QP had it's own particular flavor of derp, but it was unique to QP. Now, we've got a combination of good old window licking solo play combined with the "why can't you T3 pugs follow instructions" from the group guys. You know the group guys, right? The ones that think their 3-4 man group can stop the other team's nascar and leave their own team short after failing miserably.

#42 Nightbird

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 11:52 AM

Unfortunately, there are no experts doing this analysis, so you'll have to settle for blindfolded dart throws.

#43 CFC Conky

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 10:48 PM

Biased against light mechs (Raven Huggin)?

Posted Image

Edited by CFC Conky, 28 September 2020 - 10:49 PM.


#44 Monkey Lover

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 01:10 AM

View PostCFC Conky, on 28 September 2020 - 10:48 PM, said:

Biased against light mechs (Raven Huggin)?

Posted Image


Raven? Last i saw they still had hit boxes on the legs larger than the model. Other than the jenner its one of the worst lights in the game.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 29 September 2020 - 01:14 AM.


#45 CFC Conky

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 09:50 AM

Yeah I know, the Raven isn't the best light mech chassis but if the system is biased towards damage, you would think getting 523 would at the very least result is zero movement.

EDIT: I didn't take a screenshot of the team stats but my match score was well north of 300, ~340 if i recall correctly.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 29 September 2020 - 10:18 AM.


#46 Monkey Lover

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 11:58 AM

View PostCFC Conky, on 29 September 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

Yeah I know, the Raven isn't the best light mech chassis but if the system is biased towards damage, you would think getting 523 would at the very least result is zero movement.

EDIT: I didn't take a screenshot of the team stats but my match score was well north of 300, ~340 if i recall correctly.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky
The bad strike with the 47 team damage is what knocked you down. I could be wrong but i would be surprised if you had over 300 match score.

Often i have seen 1000 damage games and if you had one bad strike with 100 damage you end up with 90 match score.

#47 CFC Conky

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 12:05 PM

View PostMonkey Lover, on 29 September 2020 - 11:58 AM, said:

The bad strike with the 47 team damage is what knocked you down. I could be wrong but i would be surprised if you had over 300 match score.

Often i have seen 1000 damage games and if you had one bad strike with 100 damage you end up with 90 match score.


Yeah, that probably explains it.

#48 Willard Phule

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Posted 02 October 2020 - 07:22 AM

View PostCFC Conky, on 29 September 2020 - 12:05 PM, said:


Yeah, that probably explains it.


I stopped carrying strikes a while back....if you can't trust your team to not back into you, you certainly can't trust them not to run into the smoke. Started carrying 2 UAVs and the match score went through the roof. All those counter ecms and ecm locked damages add up.

#49 martian

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Posted 02 October 2020 - 09:50 AM

View PostCFC Conky, on 29 September 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

Yeah I know, the Raven isn't the best light mech chassis but if the system is biased towards damage, you would think getting 523 would at the very least result is zero movement.

EDIT: I didn't take a screenshot of the team stats but my match score was well north of 300, ~340 if i recall correctly.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky


Yes, MS 340 sounds about right.

However, those 47 points of friendly damage means about -47 points down off your Match Score. Without that friendly damage your Match Score would be about 390-400, more than enough to get you a green arrow.

#50 General Solo

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Posted 02 October 2020 - 03:57 PM

View PostWillard Phule, on 02 October 2020 - 07:22 AM, said:

I stopped carrying strikes a while back....if you can't trust your team to not back into you, you certainly can't trust them not to run into the smoke. Started carrying 2 UAVs and the match score went through the roof. All those counter ecms and ecm locked damages add up.


I admire your restraint in regards to artie
So many have a rather slack attitude toward collateral damage it can cause.

Reminds me of the story of the Slacker Artie guy and his team mate.....
Posted Image


Remember

Will great power
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Comes great responsibility
Posted Image

Carry on Posted Image
Mech Warriors Posted Image
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#51 General Solo

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Posted 02 October 2020 - 04:05 PM

View PostWillard Phule, on 02 October 2020 - 07:22 AM, said:


I stopped carrying strikes a while back....if you can't trust your team to not back into you, you certainly can't trust them not to run into the smoke. Started carrying 2 UAVs and the match score went through the roof. All those counter ecms and ecm locked damages add up.


I find it best to use them strikes early in a match
On some maps the enemy gets clustered tight at certain points.for a big pay day in terms of strike damage
If you can get in a sweet strike then most your team mate will be still walking to the front line.

And so less team mates to get in the smoke
It take some skill to use well
doh luck plays a part

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 02 October 2020 - 04:06 PM.


#52 Willard Phule

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 06:08 AM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 02 October 2020 - 04:05 PM, said:


I find it best to use them strikes early in a match
On some maps the enemy gets clustered tight at certain points.for a big pay day in terms of strike damage
If you can get in a sweet strike then most your team mate will be still walking to the front line.

And so less team mates to get in the smoke
It take some skill to use well
doh luck plays a part


Either way, a bad strike kills your MS where 2 UAVs only increase it. Simple logic.

#53 General Solo

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 12:17 PM

996 Match score says its worth the risk Posted Image



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#54 Capt Deadpool

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 11:39 AM

Nice damage Homer!

These thoughts are definitely not directed at anyone in particular, but it still blows my mind that ANYONE cares about MS. I mean, play your most fun mechs/play styles, or play with your friends, or play to win (or some combination of those)... right? And let MS fall where it may. If you are attempting to game MS in order to gain tier, you will inevitably begin dying more and losing more, e.g. be PUNISHED, not rewarded for focusing solely on MS. PGI isn't handing out cash based on MS or tier, and MS isn't even a stat that impresses anyone since everyone knows it can be gamed? No one even needs to know your tier if you don't want them to...

And lest anyone is dubious about the existence of ways to help your team win that are not only not measured by stats or MS, but are significantly MORE contributive to wins than many things that ARE incorporated into MS, here is an amazing article published in 2009 in the NY Times by the guy who wrote the book 'Moneyball' entitled 'The No Stats All-Star' about Shane Battier and how this guy with garbage stats, who no team wanted somehow always found ways to help his teams win. And this isn't some rinky-dink online game we are talking about, this is a sport that has been around for forever with billions of dollars at stake that still couldn't figure out how to accurately ascribe values to players and their actions. I don't think you even need to be a hoop head to find the article interesting.


https://www.nytimes....5Battier-t.html

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 04 October 2020 - 01:34 PM.


#55 Willard Phule

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 03:31 PM

View PostCapt Deadpool, on 04 October 2020 - 11:39 AM, said:

Nice damage Homer!

These thoughts are definitely not directed at anyone in particular, but it still blows my mind that ANYONE cares about MS. I mean, play your most fun mechs/play styles, or play with your friends, or play to win (or some combination of those)... right? And let MS fall where it may. If you are attempting to game MS in order to gain tier, you will inevitably begin dying more and losing more, e.g. be PUNISHED, not rewarded for focusing solely on MS. PGI isn't handing out cash based on MS or tier, and MS isn't even a stat that impresses anyone since everyone knows it can be gamed? No one even needs to know your tier if you don't want them to...

And lest anyone is dubious about the existence of ways to help your team win that are not only not measured by stats or MS, but are significantly MORE contributive to wins than many things that ARE incorporated into MS, here is an amazing article published in 2009 in the NY Times by the guy who wrote the book 'Moneyball' entitled 'The No Stats All-Star' about Shane Battier and how this guy with garbage stats, who no team wanted somehow always found ways to help his teams win. And this isn't some rinky-dink online game we are talking about, this is a sport that has been around for forever with billions of dollars at stake that still couldn't figure out how to accurately ascribe values to players and their actions. I don't think you even need to be a hoop head to find the article interesting.


https://www.nytimes....5Battier-t.html


That's simple. If winning or losing are the only goals to shoot for, then you will be VERY disappointed. Unless you're trying to lose, then it's relatively simple...since your team is helping you do it most of the time. It's even more pronounced now that there are groups of competetive T1 group players in there harvesting potatoes.

PSR increase, although lame, is still a reasonable goal to try to achieve. In face, you can still achieve upward movement even if you're on the losing team as well as you do well enough. And how do you tell if you did well enough? It's all about the match score.

#56 Capt Deadpool

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 04:09 PM

View PostWillard Phule, on 04 October 2020 - 03:31 PM, said:


That's simple. If winning or losing are the only goals to shoot for, then you will be VERY disappointed. Unless you're trying to lose, then it's relatively simple...since your team is helping you do it most of the time. It's even more pronounced now that there are groups of competetive T1 group players in there harvesting potatoes.

PSR increase, although lame, is still a reasonable goal to try to achieve. In face, you can still achieve upward movement even if you're on the losing team as well as you do well enough. And how do you tell if you did well enough? It's all about the match score.


I would counter that if your primary goal in any team-based competitive online FPS is not winning, then you will be VERY disappointed in your gaming experience and would be much better served by playing a different genre of game, learning guitar, or going for a nice hike.

Additionally, I mean, if increasing PSR via achieving high MS via utilizing methods that do not help or actively harm your team's performance, then like I said, you are only punishing yourself because it is likely you will be placed in a tier where you will die more often and lose more often if you are not skilled enough to get to your desired tier by the more kosher methods of killing enemies/doing damage/using other methods that help your team...

But if you are trying to increase your PSR via achieving high MS by doing things that help your team win, then I can see that as a reasonable goal... But if that is the case, W/L ratio then becomes a better metric than MS if you are trying to ascertain whether you are increasing in skill, wouldn't you say? Or, if you don't care about winning, I suppose you could track your kills per game or damage per game via your personal stat page or the leaderboards if those are your preferred 'skill metrics'.

#57 Willard Phule

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 06:02 PM

View PostCapt Deadpool, on 04 October 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:

I would counter that if your primary goal in any team-based competitive online FPS is not winning, then you will be VERY disappointed in your gaming experience and would be much better served by playing a different genre of game, learning guitar, or going for a nice hike.


Fair enough, however, you have to remember that I am both a native and resident of the Solo Queue/QP/Whateverthey'recallingitnow. I've seen pretty much every ******* decision and how it's effected that group of servers in particular. Once upon a time, if I wanted to be competetive, I'd go over to FP and play a while. Until, you know, Paul's last "improvements" that effectively put one in it's head.

Over on the solo side, being competetive leads in a lot of frustration. Losing streaks in QP due to matchmaking (or lack thereof) are something you learn to accept. You have no control over it. Now, add to that a population so low that the "new and improved" matchmaker can't make pure T1, T2 or T3 matches. If you're a brand new player in his first 25 "Cadet" matches, I'm sure being harvested by groups of competetive players will be an experience that draws more paying customers, right?

View PostCapt Deadpool, on 04 October 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:


Additionally, I mean, if increasing PSR via achieving high MS via utilizing methods that do not help or actively harm your team's performance, then like I said, you are only punishing yourself because it is likely you will be placed in a tier where you will die more often and lose more often if you are not skilled enough to get to your desired tier by the more kosher methods of killing enemies/doing damage/using other methods that help your team...


Again, my opinion differs, but that's about the only good thing about QP. We're allowed to have different opinions. Unlike the organized players, that follow sets of both written and unwritten rules.

Believe it or not, with or without organized groups, the new PSR system is based on individual performance and not the team's success. That's a HUGE change. That means "upward movement" becomes another viable goal besides something that is completely out of your control. Granted, QP T1s will be looked down upon by organized T1s as being people that gamed the system, but one would think that if they make it that far, they've at least learned how to manage heat and move forward without falling off the edge of the world.

And let's face it. Some of those elite, "best of the best of the best, with honors, sir" T1 group guys do FAR worse than "career potatoes" when they drop solo. Almost an exact mirror of how bad us solos "follow orders" in group based play like FP, isn't it?

View PostCapt Deadpool, on 04 October 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:


But if you are trying to increase your PSR via achieving high MS by doing things that help your team win, then I can see that as a reasonable goal... But if that is the case, W/L ratio then becomes a better metric than MS if you are trying to ascertain whether you are increasing in skill, wouldn't you say? Or, if you don't care about winning, I suppose you could track your kills per game or damage per game via your personal stat page or the leaderboards if those are your preferred 'skill metrics'.


Except that W/L is, again, team based performance. You, especially, should remember being the guy that gets 1000+ damage and 6 kills, but your team still loses. Once upon a time, the only thing that truly mattered was the loss. Then they fudged around with stuff, and it still didn't really work as advertised, which oddly enough, is advertised for anyone that's been here longer than two weeks.

Honestly, I see most of the stuff you call "helping the team" as ways to increase your personal performance to get the green arrow, even if you lose. Consistent 350+ match scores are indicitive of at least doing your damn job, one would think. And I'm sure you'd agree with the opinion of "I put up 2 UAVs and lit up their entire team for 3 minutes straight and you still couldn't win" means I did everything I could to help but they just weren't capable.

Interesting you'd mention the leader boards. Might as well add Jarl's list to that as well. From what I understand, they're extremely important to the organized players. I don't quite understand all of it, but it appears to be some kind of measurement tool used in recruitment/mating rituals or something. All I know is that we're both sitting on maxed out T1 right now. Doesn't mean we're the same, not by a long shot.

#58 General Solo

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 09:22 PM

View PostCapt Deadpool, on 04 October 2020 - 11:39 AM, said:

Nice damage Homer!

These thoughts are definitely not directed at anyone in particular, but it still blows my mind that ANYONE cares about MS.



I totally agree about MS, personally I play for fun# and was only using MS as a metric to show how strikes can give your team a boost without Friendly fire.

I could/should of used the 1741 damage metric instead Posted Image.

# Winning is fun
# Finding my Tier equilibrium and Maxing out T1 was fun
# Helping my team win against the odds is fun

#Pushing crap uphill, not so fun Posted Image

#59 Capt Deadpool

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 10:32 PM

Yes totally got what you were saying; didn't want you to think I was talking about you, Homer :) Or Willard, or anyone in particular for that matter. Just random thoughts.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 04 October 2020 - 10:40 PM.






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