85 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

Nightbird, on 03 October 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

If it is not a paramedic, but a random passer by that you know, they have no responsibility to help you.

Unfortunately that may not be the case.

Nightbird, on 03 October 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

Per the initial game micro-transaction topic, the banning versus having the choice of playing with skateboards is the equivalent question. Can humans handle the free will conundrum of skateboards? When a small number won't be able to avoid harming themselves? Or will humans be brainwashed by the advertisements, games, and product placement that makes skateboarding cool and will be compelled to hurt themselves?

Can humans handle free-will? We're infamous for doing stupid.

Personally I say let nature take its course: https://darwinawards.com/

[Nightbird]

VonBruinwald, on 03 October 2020 - 03:18 PM, said:

Unfortunately that may not be the case.

It is the case for the example given. There are no special relationship between the person and the passerby that warrants a responsibility, and a broken leg is not life-threatening.

If the two in the example are husband and wife, it's a different story but that would be an important detail to leave out huh.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 02 October 2020 - 07:48 AM, said:

I'm explaining how the world works and the rationale behind it.

So basically, "That's how the world works", sounds like what FO4 Raiders say to themselves as they disemboweled people, cut their heads and put to their spikes. You know if you shoot someone in the head, they die. That's how the world works -- ****, that is how physics work. You know what is funny too, for all of your invocation of personal responsibility, it logically ends up pleading like a victim to a cruel world.

Fact is, we have the choice to do so, we can change how the world works, that is what humanity is all about, that is what Laws are for, and that is what the governments are doing now when they are about to regulate Lootboxes themselves.

Nightbird, on 02 October 2020 - 07:48 AM, said:

Some micro-transactions for a game to earn revenue isn't bad right? The only problem is when people spend more money than they should and put themselves into a hole?

Sure, but it is cut from the same cloth. Likewise those people that put themselves in the hole, they are exactly the victims, what those predatory games are built for -- the ******* whales. It's like you didn't even watched the video of that despicable CEO.

Nightbird, on 02 October 2020 - 07:48 AM, said:

Well guess what, people did that when there is no micro-transactions. People do that with alcohol and other drugs. People do that with a variety of other vices in the past, and will continue to in the future. Alcohol advertising in particular uses all the physiological tricks in the book (ads using sexiness, normalization with product placement in tv/movie/game media, ladies nights at bars, subsidies, etc), and kills 200k people per year. Do you want to ban alcohol as well?

People had been killing one another the entire human history, so murder should be fine right? Well here's the thing, it is actually frowned upon and regulated. You could point to the vices all you want, but what they have is precisely the problem that garners ire for Gaming, and that is regulation -- nevermind the almost "if your friends jumped off a bridge, would you" that has been answered to be "yes". The gaming industry is poorly regulated, these games are disguised casinos that even children can play.

You could blame the parent all you like, but at least the alcohol and tobacco are explicitly forbidden for minors by law through careful analysis. It is quite atrocious how you think you can just compare those to the games industry that haven't befallen the same microscope, don't you ******* even.

Nightbird, on 02 October 2020 - 07:48 AM, said:

In such situations, you can say, 1) people are incapable of exercising free will responsibly, and then proceed to take away their choices, or 2) trust they will learn from their mistakes, and not repeat them in the future. The people of the world have overwhelming decided that 2) is the approach we take, we don't blame the choice and trust the individual to grow.

That been said, you are welcome to hold your opinion as long as you want, because I trust 2) will happen eventually.

That is why WW3 is such a promising venture. While I do not condone all that harm, but maybe, just maybe, just for once, people would learn to set aside their petty hang-ups and stop acting like bunch of sociopaths just out to get money.

[VonBruinwald]

The6thMessenger, on 03 October 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

That is why WW3 is such a promising venture. While I do not condone all that harm, but maybe, just maybe, just for once, people would learn to set aside their petty hang-ups and stop acting like bunch of sociopaths just out to get money.

Unfortunately the war machine works for the rich. They make weapons, they get paid and they get a doctors note ensuring they never go to the front.

What it will do is cull the softees.

[The6thMessenger]

VonBruinwald, on 03 October 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

Unfortunately the war machine works for the rich. They make weapons, they get paid and they get a doctors note ensuring they never go to the front.

What it will do is cull the softees.

Eh, at least the fireworks would be amazing.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 03 October 2020 - 03:52 PM, said:

Eh, at least the fireworks would be amazing.

There is no fireworks in from any real weapons, only a puff of smoke. The rest only exist in Hollywood special effects.

Thanks for the bumps and gl with your persecution complex.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 03 October 2020 - 04:03 PM, said:

There is no fireworks in from any real weapons, only a puff of smoke. The rest only exist in Hollywood special effects.

Thanks for the bumps and gl with your persecution complex.

Somebody forgot metaphors. Also Nukes, and explosives -- they are actually airbursted.

Goodluck in applauding horrible people out to get money from people who barely have it, yeah?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 03 October 2020 - 04:24 PM.

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 03 October 2020 - 04:03 PM, said:

There is no fireworks in from any real weapons, only a puff of smoke. The rest only exist in Hollywood special effects.

Thanks for the bumps and gl with your persecution complex.

well there was napalm.

[The6thMessenger]

LordNothing, on 03 October 2020 - 07:54 PM, said:

well there was napalm.

Dude, I don't know what weapons would be fought in WW3, but I know it'll be sticks and stones in WW4.

[LordNothing]

The6thMessenger, on 03 October 2020 - 08:35 PM, said:

Dude, I don't know what weapons would be fought in WW3, but I know it'll be sticks and stones in WW4.

why when i can use the twisted rebar from the ruins?

[martian]

Nightbird, on 01 October 2020 - 09:06 PM, said:

It's better for everyone when games are f2p and makes revenue through micro-transactions.

If you charge 60$ for a game, you only get X players that will buy it.

If you charge 0-1000$ for a game, where people who want to pay 0$ can pay 0$, people who want to pay 60$ can pay 60$, and people who want to pay 1000$ can pay 1000$, then usually you get 4-5X players that play the game. More players = better matches made and more fun for the people who pay. This is basically economics and the first thing taught in business classes.

People who can't control their impulses will waste all their money regardless, so that can't be your rallying cry.

Nicely said.

Unfortunately, Russ Bullock has never quite got the grasp on this micro-transactions principle. However, he has implented a lot of macro-transactions in MWO.

[LordNothing]

martian, on 04 October 2020 - 01:07 AM, said:

Nicely said.

Unfortunately, Russ Bullock has never quite got the grasp on this micro-transactions principle. However, he has implented a lot of macro-transactions in MWO.

what really killed it was the asymptotic development. that is only really focusing on improving one aspect of the game, or rather adding mechs, at expense of others. money was going from one mechpack into the next and so on ad nauseam. with very little put into development in other areas. maps, modes, even quality of life fixes all got bucked down the line again and again, or canceled flat out.

take weapons and equipment. they had this pretty much static hardpoint system that required major human intervention every time they wanted to add new weapons. you cant just add a few xml files and be done with it. every new weapon had to be manually retrofitted into each and every mech, an ever growing list. a little bit of code time would have cut the amount of work on the weapons pack to a fraction of what it was, and possibly would have enabled further packs down the road. premium weapons and manufactures (like what mw5 has) could have been marketable. it may have skated pretty close to p2w territory, but thats actually one thing they avoided pretty well. like people would pay real money for purple lasers or single shot clan acs. they could have marketed fancy ammo types had they finished implementing that feature.

they also tied things like masc, and tacticon to certain mechs in an effort to get people to buy mech packs. what they should have done is opened that equipment up to more chassis and rotate that thing through a few months of paid early access like they did with the mech packs. they could have expanded the available equipment greatly and give a lot of fine control build options. and each time get money from it. omnipods are another place they could have made some money, like have premium omnipod options. but they chose to tie that into mechpack purchases and it would have helped make is omnis viable (and that may have helped sell mech packs).

and the maps, they really needed to drive map dev costs way down. they were way to high. the only way we got as many maps as we did was by cutting major corners. asset reuse and copypasta galore. they could have got that way down by canning a lot of micro detail, we could have done away with the art deco building prefabs and used simpler buildings, they could have gotten rid of micro detail and ground clutter. they could have gone natural rather than moba style. they could have developed tools to streamline the mapping process. had they been able to put out 2 maps a year they could have kept a lot of people from leaving out of boredom.

selling a better game to fewer people i think would have been preferable. but they could have worked out their pricing to encourage initial buy in from more players. the mech pack mechs really didnt offer anything to anyone who wasnt willing to wait a few months and put in some grind. all the standard pack mechs and extra variants should have come with bonuses, the higher tier packs should have come with higher bonuses. the idea is you buy a mech pack you can generate more income much faster than if you dont. whales would have bought them anyway and more people would have bought one or two to level up their other stuff faster. mc handouts should have been rarer and tied into paid mechs via trickle mc. you buy a mech pack you can farm mc faster. they could have had more stand alone paid variants for those who were willing to spend $5-10, i really liked the stand alone hero mechs they had and bought several of those (not nearly as many as i got for free).

so many things they could have done to bolster their income while also making a better game. instead they let it rot. would you like to buy a mech pack? nothing else, just mech packs.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 October 2020 - 06:23 AM.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 04 October 2020 - 06:20 AM, said:

...

What a valuable insight.

I think that sunk costs influenced Russ Bullock's decisions.

[The6thMessenger]

martian, on 04 October 2020 - 10:15 AM, said:

What a valuable insight.

I think that sunk costs influenced Russ Bullock's decisions.

Honestly, I think MWO, the idea of it should just die. It's all just sunk-cost fallacy. Lets have a real MechWarrior instead.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 04 October 2020 - 12:28 PM, said:

Honestly, I think MWO, the idea of it should just die. It's all just sunk-cost fallacy. Lets have a real MechWarrior instead.

Does someone need to connect you with a support group to help you get out of a game you hate?

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 04 October 2020 - 12:36 PM, said:

Does someone need to connect you with a support group to help you get out of a game you hate?

Dude, I barely even put money in this. The only real purchases I have is the K9 and the Kaiju because I made a promise.

And no, I don't hate it, the game. I hate that it's like when Spongebob or Fairly OddParents, that it became worse overtime because it didn't have a proper ending. Well, Spongebob had an ending, the first movie, but Nickelodeon just can't let it die.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 October 2020 - 12:43 PM.

[Nightbird]

MMOs don't have endings? Play MW5 or BT if you want a bad story and ending.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 04 October 2020 - 12:45 PM, said:

MMOs don't have endings? Play MW5 or BT if you want a bad story and ending.

Yet here we are, MWO in maintenance mode with reduced playerbase. It's dying, rotting with their own created model.

Are we really getting into "if your friends jump to their deaths, would you too" and you just answered "yes"? That can't be the hill you want to die on.

Also MW4 is fine, and quite frankly it's free*.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 October 2020 - 12:57 PM.

[Nightbird]

There's nothing wrong with MWO's model. It's 7-8 years old and will probably go 10 years before servers are shut down. That's a longer than the average MMO. Sure, there were missteps along the way, but as an indie game developer title it did well.

If you think you can do better, buy the IP and do it. All the major publishers passed on the IP.

[The6thMessenger]

Sounds like every sensitive creator ever, lol.

2-3 years of Maintenance Mode? My gawd.

What's wrong with MWO's model is it has barely developed game to begin with. If you're going to **** someone in the ***, the least you could do is to reach around and give a kiss. They haven't even implemented crit-splitting and ammo-switching, even MW5 doesn't have that. But nah man, would you like to buy a mechpack?