544 replies to this topic

[Detoxication]

Hello and gl.

Bring back the scouting mod would be nice.

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 07 October 2020 - 05:51 AM, said:

There’s a reason why you hardly see any streak boats anymore on the field.. It’s tough to do consistently well in them with ams and ecm being so prevalent... saying streaks takes little skill is a damn fallacy.. contrary to your opinion pgi does NOT do all the work for you.. pgi doesn’t put you in the right position to not get focused.. pig doesn’t prioritise targets on mechs without ams.. Or get you close enough to counter ecm.. pgi doesn’t tell you when to pop tart or attack so you can win the trade.. uac10’s allow you to power camp and pop tart/poke at a safe range.. your specialty.. how can you even begin to compare the two builds as being equal in the skill required to play them? again your arguments fall flat as a pancake..

Daed, the UAC10 Summoner is extremely ammo limited and squishy. You have to efficiently use every last she'll to do well in it. You have to do all of the positioning work you were just putting on a pedestal PLUS you have to aim. Compared to a streak boat it takes substantially greater skill to get a 1k match out of a dakka summoner.

You're also quite wrong about my playstyle. In a group in QP I do often prefer to take mid range and gun everything down, because that's what's most effective in QP, BUT I love a good brawl as well. Some of my most fun comp matches have been when we just sent it and steamrolled the opposing team with an srm or mpl push. Unlike you I enjoy just about every playstyle on offer in MWO.

Edit: there are plenty of streak boats in QP, one might even say too many. Right now it seems like around half the mechs in matches are ssrm, lrm, or atm boats.

Edited by Brauer, 07 October 2020 - 07:04 AM.

[Faithsfall]

The horse hasn't been fed in ages, but at least we have brought someone in to keep flogging it even though it's not moved in a while.

[C337Skymaster]

Brauer, on 07 October 2020 - 07:01 AM, said:

Daed, the UAC10 Summoner is extremely ammo limited and squishy. You have to efficiently use every last she'll to do well in it. You have to do all of the positioning work you were just putting on a pedestal PLUS you have to aim. Compared to a streak boat it takes substantially greater skill to get a 1k match out of a dakka summoner.

You're also quite wrong about my playstyle. In a group in QP I do often prefer to take mid range and gun everything down, because that's what's most effective in QP, BUT I love a good brawl as well. Some of my most fun comp matches have been when we just sent it and steamrolled the opposing team with an srm or mpl push. Unlike you I enjoy just about every playstyle on offer in MWO.

Edit: there are plenty of streak boats in QP, one might even say too many. Right now it seems like around half the mechs in matches are ssrm, lrm, or atm boats.

That's interesting... I've seen the LRMs and particularly the ATMs (especially on Vapor Eagles), but I honestly don't see streaks all that often, unless I'm running them, myself. I figure I'm "lucky" to see one streak-boat per match, while there'll usually be at least two or three LRM/ATM boats per team, and just as frequently one or two AMS boats.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 07 October 2020 - 08:04 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brauer, on 07 October 2020 - 07:01 AM, said:

Daed, the UAC10 Summoner is extremely ammo limited and squishy. You have to efficiently use every last she'll to do well in it. You have to do all of the positioning work you were just putting on a pedestal PLUS you have to aim. Compared to a streak boat it takes substantially greater skill to get a 1k match out of a dakka summoner.

You're also quite wrong about my playstyle. In a group in QP I do often prefer to take mid range and gun everything down, because that's what's most effective in QP, BUT I love a good brawl as well. Some of my most fun comp matches have been when we just sent it and steamrolled the opposing team with an srm or mpl push. Unlike you I enjoy just about every playstyle on offer in MWO.

Edit: there are plenty of streak boats in QP, one might even say too many. Right now it seems like around half the mechs in matches are ssrm, lrm, or atm boats.

Everytime I've seen a uac10 summoner on the field he's hiding behind a hill poptarting.. I'm not saying it's easy to do well in.. but it doesn't have the myriad of downsides a streak mech has to contend with like ecm, ams, short range, spread damage, hitting terrain' or friendlies despite 'no-skill' auto aim.. less armor.. I play every play style there is.. just curious, what do you think my playstyle is?

Not sure where you're seeing streak mechs.. but they sure aren't in qp.. streaks takes too much skill to do well in now..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 07 October 2020 - 08:55 AM.

[dario03]

DAEDALOS513, on 07 October 2020 - 08:19 AM, said:

Not sure where you're seeing streak mechs.. but they sure aren't in qp.. streaks takes too much skill to do well in now..

I see streaks in qp, not as much as lrms or atms but definitely see them, either boated or a few mixed in with other weapons. FP is where you really see them though.

Needing skill isn't what would be holding a streak boat back. Its more of a luck of the draw with what the enemy brought. If they brought lots of ecm and ams then you might not be able to do so much. Though that more so applies to lrm/atm since you can probably get some counters to ecm up, ams doesn't do much against streaks especially up close and they don't have min range. However if the enemy didn't bring a lot of those counters you can easily do lots of damage with a near auto aim 400m, ~72 damage alpha, that can be poptarted with mechs like a huntsman. Basically shut out any brawling light pretty much regardless of skill level.

[Bolo Atari]

Welcome back and aboard in your new role/job/position!

You have some work to do so chop chop

[dario03]

Oh I forgot the second most important quality of life update.
-Make mode selection a checkbox list. A player/group should be able to go to a list of all the modes (quick play, faction play either side, scouting either side, all the solaris divs with a casual and rated option (add casual to solaris)) and whatever modes you have properly set up with mechs/decks should be selectable. Then you should be able to select what modes you want with an option to set a preferred mode and it should search the preferred mode for a bit, if a good match can't be made it will then add all the other selected modes to the search and give you the best match.

That would help with match making, and help some of the less played modes that died because even the players that liked it stopped playing because search took to long. For instance I liked scouting and some of the guys I play with did too, but when playing in a group others didn't want to play because we would search forever and then just cancel. If it would have just searched for a bit and then moved to another mode I'm sure we would have got matches because others were probably like us. Solaris is similar, you sit there looking for a match in one div for a while, wonder if maybe theres some in other divs, switch divs, and then miss a match because you lost your priority spot.

[DAEDALOS513]

dario03, on 07 October 2020 - 09:12 AM, said:

I see streaks in qp, not as much as lrms or atms but definitely see them, either boated or a few mixed in with other weapons. FP is where you really see them though.

Needing skill isn't what would be holding a streak boat back. Its more of a luck of the draw with what the enemy brought. If they brought lots of ecm and ams then you might not be able to do so much. Though that more so applies to lrm/atm since you can probably get some counters to ecm up, ams doesn't do much against streaks especially up close and they don't have min range. However if the enemy didn't bring a lot of those counters you can easily do lots of damage with a near auto aim 400m, ~72 damage alpha, that can be poptarted with mechs like a huntsman. Basically shut out any brawling light pretty much regardless of skill level.

You definitely needed less skill to run a streak mech in the younger days of mwo.. but now with all the meta mechs that can core you in under 2 seconds.. or all the stealth/ecm lights running around.. ya, not only is lack of skill keeping players from using them (as far as bad positioning/movement/enemy prioritization), but also the risk/reward is out of whack.

You're right, AMS doesn't do much against streaks when you can alpha all of them at once and the right velocity quirks.. but once you start to heat up, or due to different cooldown times, you're forced to chainfire your missiles, then ams will shine against streaks.. in which case you need to get real up-close and personal... increasing risk.

Although the huntsman can boat alot of streaks.. it lacks speed and and cooldown quirks (unless you opt for smaller hmn boat which offer some minimal cooldown). Clan streaks have a hella long cooldown.. by the time it's ready to alpha it's second wave of missiles, it's rekt or dead.. they don't scare me as much as the smaller boats that have quirks and speed..

You see streak mechs in FP because you're almost guaranteed to go up against lights or mediums in last wave.. not much risk there which is why you see them.. soup queue is another matter..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 07 October 2020 - 09:54 AM.

[Seasonace]

Blackster Leroux, on 06 October 2020 - 02:52 AM, said:

Congratulations PGI and Daeron, this is the right move and this will be amazing! A rebirth is at hand!

eB

Everyone at Clan Widowmaker LOVES this news and is excited to see what comes next to MWO... what gets fixed for MWO, and just knowing that the FUN CONTINUES!

....... personal wish: fix the Commando hit boxes.

[dario03]

Seasonace, on 07 October 2020 - 09:32 AM, said:

Everyone at Clan Widowmaker LOVES this news and is excited to see what comes next to MWO... what gets fixed for MWO, and just knowing that the FUN CONTINUES!

....... personal wish: fix the Commando hit boxes.

Its proably more so the structure quirks that make it so tanky. The commando has more health than you think, even if you know it has big quirks its probably even more total health than you think.

[SteelRainMG]

welcome back Bombadill!

[color=#000000]

[color=var(--yt-spec-text-primary)]It would be cool to see maps that change with a timeline. As game timeline advances then a city gets blown up or a city expands and changes. A desert turns into a greener landscape as terraforming takes place. This would keep from having to make entirely new geography, just freshen up the visuals with minor tweaks. Also Id like a rear view camera![/color][/color]
[color=#000000]

Jesus Cales-Rodriguez1 second ago [/color]

[color=var(--yt-spec-text-primary)]
It would be cool to see maps that change with a timeline. As game timeline advances then a city gets blown up or a city expands and changes. A desert turns into a greener landscape as terraforming takes place. This would keep from having to make entirely new geography, just freshen up the visuals with minor tweaks. Also Id like a rear view camera![/color]

Edited by SteelRainMG, 07 October 2020 - 10:30 AM.

[Kai Allard-Liao]

Congratulations Bombadil!

Can we have Decal-National-Flags for our Mechs, pls? For example, I would like to place a German-Flag at the shoulder of my Mech.

I m very very happy, about the 5-Year Extension - and i hope the MWO-Server will never ever goes offline. MWO ist my one and only Computer-Game that I'm playing for years.

Edited by Kai Allard-Liao, 07 October 2020 - 09:53 AM.

[dario03]

DAEDALOS513, on 07 October 2020 - 09:32 AM, said:

You see streak mechs in FP because you're almost guaranteed to go up against lights or mediums in last wave.. not much risk there which is why you see them.. soup queue is another matter..

Which again goes to the luck of what the enemy brought (though in this case you have a better idea of what they are bringing). The effectiveness of the weapon is to dependent on the players opposition instead of the players skill. Its also one of the reasons why the weapon should be rebalanced so that it isn't practically an auto counter vs brawling lights and weak vs bigger mechs.

Edited by dario03, 07 October 2020 - 10:16 AM.

[zzoxx]

Glad too see some life coming back to MWO. I'll be honest: in summer 2019 i expected the lights to go out for the game at the end of the year. Fortunately that didn't happen. Wich is a good thing because all salt aside people still love it despite the undisputable flaws. Biggest problems i see and what my wishlist would be:

- Playerbase: We need more folks coming in to stay and guys that deserted to maybe come back. You can't open up to new modes or "buckets" with that small playerbase. The merging of group an solo helped to make quicker matchmaking. But now in the red / blue composition you have cadets standing against veterans, 7 Assaults against none and stuff like that despite PSR, other balancing factors. The vents are wide open most of the time. New player experience must be horrible, these guys don't stay let alone spend their money. How do you aquire new players? By making the game more attractive. I guess Steam ratings going up again would help a lot. Some adds, no idea.

- Content: Maps need some love, nascar and deathballing are common problems reported to great extent. The bad maps always lack cover, have either a big nowhere or a big structure right in the middle. It's like gravity. Rubbelite was going in a more suitable direction. Another issue is accessibility and visibility. On Hibernal around the Gamma cap location there is no way to enter high ground without JJ forever. Bottleneck with that wrecks next to center, stuff like that. The area on Crimson around the ship and so many others same. More maps designed for the modes that are played on it. Incursion and Escort didn't make it to overwhelming popularity because it is not to promising setting different game modes on exactly the same maps. Stupid atlas aside. Not a fan of the day / night cycle also, that horrible stuttering mid match aside. Ditch it pls.

- Skill tree: Don't care too much about it. But i hate the grind to unlock 91 nodes and earn at best 5 Skill points a match. Sell a 91 nodes unlock for 5$ and i'll buy it every time, i swear. Don't know if this would fit a future monetization model. Just an idea.

- Bring back scouting: Maybe a mode that is already in the bag and would be appreciated? It doesn't have to be tied to Faction play and max group size atm is already 4 anyway, so why not? Of course if you can afford the extra bucket. As mentioned before, playerbase is the true currency that would make a lot of things things possible.

That's about what comes to my mind without stressing too many details. Most of it is already in the thread.

I would love to see MWO prosper again. Maybe we can drop with our 6 to 8 guys at once again some day.
That would be awesome. <o hf.

[Lims Cragma]

Glad to hear the license is renewed and Bombadil is hired on a full-time basis! It looks like things are finally moving in right direction with MWO project. Would hate to see it die. I have been a fan of the franchise since 1989 MW Activision game release and wish for it to continue. Now from the purely business perspective, I don't see how you can expand the player base and revive the MWO project without relaunching it - by switching to a more up-to-date MW5 Unreal engine and remarketing anew. You can not expect a rush of new players (and their hard earned/parents cash) onto the 8-year old platform.

[Kaeseblock]

Congratulation on your new job Bombadil.
MWO is still one of my most favorite games and I'm looking forward to the hopefully positive changes coming to MWO. Be it low hanging fruits like small quality of life features for Quick Play and Comp Play/private lobbies or even big working items like big graphic improvements or even an engine update. As far as I understand the NGNGtv podcast, that's 'only' a funding issue. Maybe there is a way to crowdfund that? Anyways, I'm looking forward to see you and your colleages rejuvenate MWO.

Also: I'd love to see a Quick Play-style queue for the 4 mech dropship modes from CW. I think they are a lot of fun.

[nuttyrat]

zzoxx, on 07 October 2020 - 10:46 AM, said:

- Skill tree: Don't care too much about it. But i hate the grind to unlock 91 nodes and earn at best 5 Skill points a match. Sell a 91 nodes unlock for 5$ and i'll buy it every time, i swear. Don't know if this would fit a future monetization model. Just an idea.

You can buy 200 GSP for $10 USD in the Gift Store right meow!

[Alreech]

Navid A1, on 06 October 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

MW5 is a short term game and will be history in a few months (similar to most singleplayer games)... either you need to go full AAA game experience on it... or the focus need to shift towards MWO.

MW5 has stuff in the engine running that MWO hasn't:
Destructable terrain
AI units like Tanks, VTOLs & Infantery (usefull for Training Grounds or as cannon fodder at control points)
Raytracing & better Graphics
...

Adding all that to MWOs CryEngine (not a bad engine, but less common than the Unreal Engine, so less aviable coders) is just a waste of time and money.
Also selling Clan DLCs for Mechwarrior 5 will make money, improving the MWO Engine won't make money until the playerbase spends more on MCs and Mechpacks.

Quote

MW5 hardpoint system is objectively the worst implementation of mechlab and customization to date.
It's just borderline stock mechs only.
imo MWO surprisingly is the best implementation of mechlab so far in the franchise, overall

The MWO Mechlab with almost no direct restrictions is great... for a single player game.
But replacing Machine Guns with Gauss Rifles & Medium Lasers with Large Lasers is a balancing nightmare in a Multiplayer Shooter.
PGI tried to fix this balancing nightmare with Ghost Heat, didn't work well and make a lot of people mad.

It also make many Mechs quite similar: If you can mount a AC 20 or Gaussrifle on an a Shadow Hawk, a Hunchback, a Blackjack, an Centurion, an Enforcer,... what's the point of having different Mechs?
PGI tried to make the Mechs different with weapon quirks & more hardpoints, creating even more problems.

Even if the stock Shadow Hawk comes with an AC5 and a Medium Laser it's no problem to set the size limit for those hardpoints to "Large", allowing to replace those weapons with an AC 10 and a Large Laser to upgrade that Mech to a level comparable to a stock Enforcer.

Weapons also have only to be balanced in their size & type class.
It's easier if you only have to balance the Medium Laser with ER-Medium Laser / Medium Pulse Laser / Medium Heavy Laser, and don't have to use Ghost heat to balance "too many Medium Lasers vs 2 or 3 Large Lasers"...

Maybe a "Huge" size is needed for weapons like the AC20, Gausrifle, Heavy Gauss, LRM 20 & MMR 40, Heavy PPC.
If the Hunchback is one of the few medium Mechs capable to mount one "Huge" ballistic weapon it will be different to the Shadow Hawk with it's 2 "Large" hardpoints.

With a 4 tier MW5 weapon size system quirks (for stock loadouts) & additional hardpoints (Mechs with few weapons in stock loadout) maybe still be needed , but with less negative side effects.

Quote

Faction Play offers IS and Clan only teams with separate loyalty score systems and rewards... give it a try sometimes.
Although most of siege maps are horrible disasters in terms of level design.

It tried it, and faction loyalty isn't the reason why Clan & IS should be seperated.
The Clan vs IS balancing doesn't work if both sides are mixed randomly with Clan & IS Mechs, that's the reason why such mixed teams should be removed from Quickplay.

Regarding Faction Play:
The big matchsize of 12 vs 12 in combination with 4 spawns and high tonnage (260 tons) makes faction play less interessting for small groups and makes the siege design map desing even worse (grinding through 4x65 tons).
Most player groups can't field a 12 player team for faction play, so you have to team up with strangers (bad coordination - see part below).

Quote

We already have role warfare... drop in a coordinated group, and mix and match your mechs to experience it.

To drop in a coordinated group you have to use an external VOIP solution like teamspeak or discord.
And with the tools in MWO you can't see your groupmates speed & weapon loadout or role.

Improving MWOs tool for pre-matchmaking group coordination would make playing as coordinated group easier, talking about stuff like:
VOIP & display in pre-matchmaking group screen of
-Mech Speed
-Mech Role
-Firepower stats with range brackets
-special Item Icons (ECM, AMS, TAG,...)
...

[Navid A1]

Alreech, on 07 October 2020 - 03:44 PM, said:

The MWO Mechlab with almost no direct restrictions is great... for a single player game.

But replacing Machine Guns with Gauss Rifles & Medium Lasers with Large Lasers is a balancing nightmare in a Multiplayer Shooter.
PGI tried to fix this balancing nightmare with Ghost Heat, didn't work well and make a lot of people mad.

It also make many Mechs quite similar: If you can mount a AC 20 or Gaussrifle on an a Shadow Hawk, a Hunchback, a Blackjack, an Centurion, an Enforcer,... what's the point of having different Mechs?
PGI tried to make the Mechs different with weapon quirks & more hardpoints, creating even more problems.

Even if the stock Shadow Hawk comes with an AC5 and a Medium Laser it's no problem to set the size limit for those hardpoints to "Large", allowing to replace those weapons with an AC 10 and a Large Laser to upgrade that Mech to a level comparable to a stock Enforcer.

Weapons also have only to be balanced in their size & type class.
It's easier if you only have to balance the Medium Laser with ER-Medium Laser / Medium Pulse Laser / Medium Heavy Laser, and don't have to use Ghost heat to balance "too many Medium Lasers vs 2 or 3 Large Lasers"...

Maybe a "Huge" size is needed for weapons like the AC20, Gausrifle, Heavy Gauss, LRM 20 & MMR 40, Heavy PPC.
If the Hunchback is one of the few medium Mechs capable to mount one "Huge" ballistic weapon it will be different to the Shadow Hawk with it's 2 "Large" hardpoints.

With a 4 tier MW5 weapon size system quirks (for stock loadouts) & additional hardpoints (Mechs with few weapons in stock loadout) maybe still be needed , but with less negative side effects.

Replacing a machine gun with a gauss is a balancing nightmare?
That "replacement" costs 14.5 tons and 6 extra slots... you know how much you need to sacrifice to get that?

Tonnage, size and type is a balance mechanics by itself. It's what makes MWO mechlab so good... because you can grab a mech and customize and make the thing you want out of it (F* the lore btw)

And no... the thing PGI has been failing at has been trying to force MWO balance to become like table top BT. Something that is fundamentally impossible.

Quote

It tried it, and faction loyalty isn't the reason why Clan & IS should be seperated.

The Clan vs IS balancing doesn't work if both sides are mixed randomly with Clan & IS Mechs, that's the reason why such mixed teams should be removed from Quickplay.

Regarding Faction Play:
The big matchsize of 12 vs 12 in combination with 4 spawns and high tonnage (260 tons) makes faction play less interessting for small groups and makes the siege design map desing even worse (grinding through 4x65 tons).
Most player groups can't field a 12 player team for faction play, so you have to team up with strangers (bad coordination - see part below).

You talk about match quality being bad because clan and IS are not separate and in the next paragraph about faction play (with separate clan and IS) you present some other reason why match quality is bad?
Even though faction play matches are also being played on a large number of quick play maps and modes?

this has been discussed before, and level design is one of the major reasons. Also it is the nature of a pvp game. Specially in Mechwarrior franchise when the average player is 35+, has horrendous mechanical problems and last time he/she played a video game was in the 90s.

Quote

To drop in a coordinated group you have to use an external VOIP solution like teamspeak or discord.

And with the tools in MWO you can't see your groupmates speed & weapon loadout or role.

Improving MWOs tool for pre-matchmaking group coordination would make playing as coordinated group easier, talking about stuff like:
VOIP & display in pre-matchmaking group screen of
-Mech Speed
-Mech Role
-Firepower stats with range brackets
-special Item Icons (ECM, AMS, TAG,...)

External voice channels are part of playing as a group. This is 2020, not 1997.

Edited by Navid A1, 07 October 2020 - 04:04 PM.