31 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Hey Bombadil, I have a bit of rebalance wishlist.

> Lights +ammo/ton quirks, preferably +150% (or 2.5x ammo/ton)

This is to make heavy-AC builds on like the Urbanmech more worth it. 1 ton of AC10 ammo should be serviceable the entire match. 2 ton of AC20 should be serviceable the entire match.

> RACs Jam Rebalance - 100% on redline with reduced dissipation time

Preferably 5s of firing, 3.9s of dissipation, with 100% chance to jam at redline for RAC5. This will make RACs controllable and predictable, instead of just relying on RNGesus. And it's not even that useful, that is risky to prolong your firing that way, and there is also the built-up jam between instances of shooting from cover so you are likely to rely wholly on the redline.

> UACs are jamless but higher cooldown versus standard ACs.

Something in the lines of the UAC20 doing ensured double-tap, but has like 6.5 - 8.0s of cooldown. The UACs are the basic staple of Dakka and they are both powerful and frustrating to use, but still powerful. By providing consistency and being balanced around the double-tap, it could be better reigned in.

Specifically, I think that the UAC20 should do 17 damage/shot but can be double-tapped to 34 damage, with 6.5s CD, the UAC10 does 8.5 damage/shot and 17 double-tap damage with 3.6s CD, UAC5 does 4.25 damage/shot and 8.5 double-tap damage with 2.55s CD, and the UAC2 doing 1.7 damage/shot and 3.4 double-tap damage with 1.25s CD.

> NARC-TAG only IDF

LRMs are rather held back by the ability to IDF. By making IDF the exclusive ability of NARC and TAG, this means LRMs could be buffed with less issue of breaking, while also having the ability to IDF more controllable and easier to reign in by merely adjusting how NARC and TAG works.

> New Weapon for IS - Binary LL doing 16 damage under 1.1s beam duration, 11 heat, 9 tons, 540m range.

IS needs their own heavy lasers, fortunately they have their existing lasers. Lore Blazer would only do 12 damage despite double the tons, so instead I opted to increase damage to 16. The standard or even extended-range LL would be more tonnage efficicent.

> LPPC to 2.5s cooldown, SNPPC to 8 heat, PPC to 8.5 heat, ERPPC to 10 heat, HPPC to 13 heat, and removal of minimum range. Clan ERPPC to 10 + 2 splash damage, 4.00s CD, and 11 heat.

The LPPCs will NEVER, EVER, compete with heaver PPCs even if you increase the damage, the heavier mechs will still use the heavier PPCS, the lights will always opt for the ERMLs soley because of tonnage allotment. They need their own thing to be relevant. If you decrease CD instead, you make it sync better with ACs for synergy, and more fun for the lights.

The Minimum-Range is also a joke, making it the thing of the ERPPC and SNPPC while still hot for it is hilarious, and the LPPC, PPC, and HPPC, doing zero damage under 90m is also just as hilarious. We could do away with the joke and let the PPCs do their damage without the burden of minimum range, and the SNPPC doesn't need to have it's "no-minimum range" it's thing and just make it the PPC for brawling that is the least hot of PPCs.

The C-ERPPC shouldn't do 15 damage (10 + 5 splash), seriously it's a 6-ton weapon. While I get that Clans only have the ONE, it still shouldn't. At 12 damage, it's still powerful, but we can also reduce the heat and cooldown. This will allow the C-ERPPC to function like EVERY IS-PPC, but not that broken.

> LGR damage to 10

LGR is just too damn anemic, and its only really useful when you can mass it. At 10 damage, it will be acceptable, and it is still not that ergonomic compared to the AC10 for it still has 0.5s charge-time + 2.5s of CD which translates to a lower DPS anyways.

> ATM to 1.6/2.0/2.4 damage and no minimum-range.

ATMs doing monstrous damage is NOT COOL, seriously the ATM Veagles are quite ridiculously powerful, at least the PPC Poptarts need more skill.

The minimum range is also BS, considering that ATMs were supposed to be usable at every range.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 07 October 2020 - 01:44 AM.

[Willard Phule]

I'd like to see them start by taking a look at some of the 'mechs they made unplayable with the first pass of stuff and get them up to comparable standard first, before tackling weapon balance again. Lord knows they've made a hash of that every time they've tried.

[LordNothing]

all balance changes need to focus on buffing the trash tier mechs to something more playable.

[dario03]

Rebalance streaks, buffed vs bigs, nerfed vs smalls if possible.

Probably rebalance atms too. Maybe nerfed damage in close range, some kind of buff for long range.

Buff gauss, maybe give it back 3x max range so its good at range but still fragile so not great up close.

Buff light mech jump jets, 2jj on a medium is actually pretty decent but not on a light mech despite being the same weight and crits.

[ocular tb]

Jenner arm armor buff.

[Tarl Cabot]

The6thMessenger, on 06 October 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

Hey Bombadil, I have a bit of rebalance wishlist.

snip

The Minimum-Range is also a joke, making it the thing of the ERPPC and SNPPC while still hot for it is hilarious, and the LPPC, PPC, and HPPC, doing zero damage under 90m is also just as hilarious. We could do away with the joke and let the PPCs do their damage without the burden of minimum range, and the SNPPC doesn't need to have it's "no-minimum range" it's thing and just make it the PPC for brawling that is the least hot of PPCs.

The minimum range is also BS, considering that ATMs were supposed to be usable at every range.

Agree on the minimum range, it should be removed but allow it to scale down in damage in a similar manner when damage drops once it is outside optimal range. Then possibly add splash damage to the shooter.

Re-examine engine balance.

• Put isXL on the same footing as LFE/cXL, in that a mech does not die to the first ST loss while scaling all 3 engines with negative penalties, with the LFE having the lowest percentage penalties, cXL being the middle of the road and the isXL having the highest percentage penalties in heat dissipation and mobility
  
• Re-examine mobility across the board while also upping both cXL and LFE mobility. Then tweak/quirk specific mechs as flavor. As a reminder, LFE was a Wolfs Dragoon creation, to replace the engines in their Clan mechs since they didnt have access to specific materials for cXL.

[Capt Deadpool]

More playable lights plz, through increasing agility and reducing hitboxes for many of the huge number of useless lights... especially now that groups and solos are merged given how MM no longer cares about matching like weights on each team, causing many players to avoid taking low tonnage mechs for fear of gimping their teams.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 11 October 2020 - 08:02 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

NARC is a fun team weapon with the indirect fire opens up a lot of tactical options with LRMS. If you take away NARC indirect fire you are going to kind of ruin LRMs as a tactical weapon. You can right the indirect fire has always bin hard problem to balance

Edited by SirSmokes, 11 October 2020 - 08:37 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 11 October 2020 - 08:35 PM, said:

NARC is a fun team weapon with the indirect fire opens up a lot of tactical options with LRMS. If you take away NARC indirect fire you are going to kind of ruin LRMs as a tactical weapon. You can right the indirect fire has always bin hard problem to balance

Um, the suggestion is that you need either NARC or TAG to go IDF at all.

[The pessimistic optimist]

The6thMessenger, on 11 October 2020 - 08:48 PM, said:

Um, the suggestion is that you need either NARC or TAG to go IDF at all.

That would just break LRMs to the point of useless no matter how much you buffed them. It would just make them even harder to use

Edited by SirSmokes, 11 October 2020 - 08:56 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 11 October 2020 - 08:53 PM, said:

That would just break LRMs to the point of useless no matter how much you buffed them. It would just make them even harder to use

Dude, DF is where LRMs are the most useful and effective.

[The pessimistic optimist]

The6thMessenger, on 11 October 2020 - 09:14 PM, said:

Dude, DF is where LRMs are the most useful and effective.

Yes but if you make it harder to get locks get your own locks just generally get a lock you are going to pretty well nerf them pretty badly. They have tried a lot of things with missiles over the years we don't need a new lurmagendon

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 11 October 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

Yes but if you make it harder to get locks get your own locks just generally get a lock you are going to pretty well nerf them pretty badly. They have tried a lot of things with missiles over the years we don't need a new lurmagendon

I'm sorry, this really boggles my mind.

How is that making "getting your own locks" harder? Because if you are getting your own locks, you wouldn't need NARC or TAG to spot for your in the first place.

Is it because they are stronger, now people can comfortably piggyback into it? But that's the point innit? They are spotting tools, and IDF, without them already is a joke.

[The pessimistic optimist]

The6thMessenger, on 11 October 2020 - 10:29 PM, said:

I'm sorry, this really boggles my mind. How is that making "getting your own locks" harder? Because if you are getting your own locks, you wouldn't need NARC or TAG to spot for your in the first place. Is it because they are stronger, now people can comfortably piggyback into it? But that's the point innit? They are spotting tools, and IDF, without them already is a joke.

IDF is not weak not even close try taking two of these for faction play with good pilots and a good NARCer https://mech.nav-alp...12fe999_MAL-1RR see how long something last with two of those on them. Missiles are in a pretty good spot and need tweaking not an over haul and I don't trust PGI not too just break them like they always seem to do...

Edited by SirSmokes, 12 October 2020 - 07:55 AM.

[RRAMIREZ]

The6thMessenger, on 06 October 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

Hey Bombadil, I have a bit of rebalance wishlist.

[...]

> ATM to 1.6/2.0/2.4 damage and no minimum-range.

ATMs doing monstrous damage is NOT COOL, seriously the ATM Veagles are quite ridiculously powerful, at least the PPC Poptarts need more skill.

The minimum range is also BS, considering that ATMs were supposed to be usable at every range.

oO
ATM Short range almost as powerfull as SSRM per missile... with 9/12 launchers? and that could go long range?
How could this be balanced?

[Willard Phule]

RRAMIREZ, on 12 October 2020 - 07:04 AM, said:

oO
ATM Short range almost as powerfull as SSRM per missile... with 9/12 launchers? and that could go long range?
How could this be balanced?

The only other option is swappable ammo. ATMs come with a long range version that has a minimum range and a short range version similar to SSRM. What you see here is a bastardization because PGI can't do swappable ammo.

[The6thMessenger]

RRAMIREZ, on 12 October 2020 - 07:04 AM, said:

oO
ATM Short range almost as powerfull as SSRM per missile... with 9/12 launchers? and that could go long range?
How could this be balanced?

It's better than what it is right now.

[RRAMIREZ]

The6thMessenger, on 12 October 2020 - 02:25 PM, said:

It's better than what it is right now.

euh... no?
rigth now you can underrun ATM...

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 12 October 2020 - 02:42 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

RRAMIREZ, on 12 October 2020 - 02:41 PM, said:

euh... no?
rigth now you can underrun ATM...

How does that even work?

Dude, you can alpha 36 damage out of a single ATM12, you can mass 4 ATM12s to do 144 damage, and that is out of an autoaim weapon -- minimum-range my butt. So "stronger per missile"? No, ATMs out right outclass SSRMs at damage because SSRMs only deal 2 damage/missile, while ATMs straight up does 3 on their close-range, at 2.4 is actually a reduction of damage.

Do you mean range band? You do realize that the mid-range damage for ATMs stays the same right? It still does 2 right now, and after my adjustments, and if anything it is same.

All the while, it has poor use at a range because there is exactly too much difference between the short-range and the long-range damage. Streak's niche is bone-tracking and fire-and-forget, the ATMs doing long-range is of no concern, hell it does long-range right now, and nobody cares.

SSRM's niche is light-killing due to it's fire-and-forget nature and bone-tracking. The ATMs being more acceptable at all ranges won't take away anything from that.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 October 2020 - 03:43 PM.

[RRAMIREZ]

The6thMessenger, on 12 October 2020 - 03:38 PM, said:

How does that even work?

Dude, you can alpha 36 damage out of a single ATM12, you can mass 4 ATM12s to do 144 damage, and that is out of an autoaim weapon -- minimum-range my butt. So "stronger per missile"? No, ATMs out right outclass SSRMs at damage because SSRMs only deal 2 damage/missile, while ATMs straight up does 3 on their close-range, at 2.4 is actually a reduction of damage.

Do you mean range band? You do realize that the mid-range damage for ATMs stays the same right? It still does 2 right now, and after my adjustments, and if anything it is same.

All the while, it has poor use at a range because there is exactly too much difference between the short-range and the long-range damage. Streak's niche is bone-tracking and fire-and-forget, the ATMs doing long-range is of no concern, hell it does long-range right now, and nobody cares.

SSRM's niche is light-killing due to it's fire-and-forget nature and bone-tracking. The ATMs being more acceptable at all ranges won't take away anything from that.

ATM aren't fire and forget ?
And they have relatively "direct" trajectory.
Not sure that they behave really differently than SSRM.
I'm not saying that ATM don't need some balancing, a lot of people agree on that , but suppressing minimum range is suppressing their mainweakness.
Where you could hope surviving first volley to come under minimum range and find them helpless, now you can just run away or use a meatshield (usual business)

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 12 October 2020 - 10:44 PM.