31 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

RRAMIREZ, on 12 October 2020 - 10:16 PM, said:

ATM aren't fire and forget homing missile, that what you say?

If you know that there are different homing algorythm implemented, you have more info than I do.

This is my source: https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json

There is also tracking. SSRMs have 100% tracking. Which means they are pretty much 100% hit rate weapon.

RRAMIREZ, on 12 October 2020 - 10:16 PM, said:

I'm not saying that ATM don't need some balancing, a lot of people agree on that , but suppressing minimum range is suppressing their mainweakness.

Sure, and their main strength is having that monstrous damage, which we don't need. If we take away their monstrous damage, what need do we have for their main weakness?

RRAMIREZ, on 12 October 2020 - 10:16 PM, said:

Where you could hope surviving first volley to come under minimum range and find them helpless, now you can just run away or use a meatshield (usual business)

That's just as fun as with PPCs with their minimum range, this can't be the hill you want to die on.

[RRAMIREZ]

The6thMessenger, on 12 October 2020 - 10:47 PM, said:

This is my source: https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json

There is also tracking. SSRMs have 100% tracking. Which means they are pretty much 100% hit rate weapon.

Thanks for the ressourrce, didn't have this one.
I'm gonna dig into it now ^^

ps:
Unlike in real life, I tend to go for overbravery (suicide ?) IF I know there is a chance.
Look at me HPPC awesome! *run twist and prey*

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 13 October 2020 - 01:12 AM.

[Willard Phule]

RRAMIREZ, on 12 October 2020 - 10:16 PM, said:

ATM aren't fire and forget ?
And they have relatively "direct" trajectory.
Not sure that they behave really differently than SSRM.
I'm not saying that ATM don't need some balancing, a lot of people agree on that , but suppressing minimum range is suppressing their mainweakness.
Where you could hope surviving first volley to come under minimum range and find them helpless, now you can just run away or use a meatshield (usual business)

If you're using ATMs as a lock on weapon only, you're missing about half it's effectiveness. In the SSRM range, you don't need a lock. Belive it or not, ATMs can fire without a lock, unlike SSRMs.

[RRAMIREZ]

Willard Phule, on 13 October 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

If you're using ATMs as a lock on weapon only, you're missing about half it's effectiveness. In the SSRM range, you don't need a lock. Belive it or not, ATMs can fire without a lock, unlike SSRMs.

I know dumb fire, yes.
Not sure of the point you want to make?

ATM without min range could also be used as point blank (edit) SRM without lock and SSRM with lock? (If we ignore the tracking factor that The6thMessenger highligthed,)

Is it what you emphasis?

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 13 October 2020 - 05:40 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

RRAMIREZ, on 13 October 2020 - 05:39 AM, said:

I know dumb fire, yes.
Not sure of the point you want to make?

ATM without min range could also be used as point blank (edit) SRM without lock and SSRM with lock? (If we ignore the tracking factor that The6thMessenger highligthed,)

Is it what you emphasis?

As SRMs? Sure. But like SSRMs, they fall within a specific niche as well. SRM6s weigh at 1.5t, and SRM6A weighs at 2.5t, that means it's much more flexible to build in a brawling build. Detail wise, there is also a difference between volley-firing and stream-firing, and the ATMs at 242 velocity, while the SRMs is at 400m -- and if you are having problems landing the dumb-fired SRMs, you are going to have a bit more problem with the ATMs.

It also has faster CD, and colder too. The SRM6s can deal 12 damage every 3.75s with 3.75 heat, and it does about 1 damage/heat, meanwhile the ATM3 which is the SRM6 equivalent (with proposed changes) would do 7.2 damage every 5s that does 2.5 heat, or 2.88 damage/heat. While the ATM3 runs colder than SRM6s, it does 3.2 DPS versus ATM3's 1.44 DPS.

Okay, assuming ATM6's output instead, does 14.4 damage every 5 versus 12 that of the SRM6, but the DPS is still at 2.88 which is still less than SRM6s.

Ultimately, the ATMs will just do what they were supposed to do in TT, and that is to be useful at any distance. It can brawl close-range, sure, but you're better off with SRMs, you are only paying for more tonnage.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 13 October 2020 - 05:56 AM.

[Stone Wall]

Capt Deadpool, on 11 October 2020 - 07:59 PM, said:

More playable lights plz, through increasing agility and reducing hitboxes for many of the huge number of useless lights... especially now that groups and solos are merged given how MM no longer cares about matching like weights on each team, causing many players to avoid taking low tonnage mechs for fear of gimping their teams.

Wow that's a sad meta state.

[Willard Phule]

RRAMIREZ, on 13 October 2020 - 05:39 AM, said:

I know dumb fire, yes.
Not sure of the point you want to make?

ATM without min range could also be used as point blank (edit) SRM without lock and SSRM with lock? (If we ignore the tracking factor that The6thMessenger highligthed,)

Is it what you emphasis?

No, what I'm saying is that people that rely on locks for any of the lockable missile systems are wasting a lot of it's effectiveness.

As far as ATMs are concerned, you have to understand that this is another of those "swappable ammo" weapons that PGI can't code properly, like the LBX autocannons. ATMs are supposed to have one type of ammo that has no minimum range and does 3 points of damage like SSRMs. The other type is for long range, longer than LRMs, and has a minimum range. What PGI gave us is the ******* child of both. Frankly, I'd rather see them just go with the "short range" ammo and get rid of the 1200m+ range nonsense.

On another note, why can't SSRMs be "dumb fired" like LRM/ATMs? Perhaps that's a mechanic that should be explored. One would assume it's not beyond PGI since they have that mechanic for LRMs and ATMs.

[Y E O N N E]

You can't dumb-fire SSRMs for two reasons:

1: muh lore - they don't fire except when guaranteed to hit

2: gameplay: renders standard SRMs somewhat irrelevant; you get the lock-on feature to delete lights and the focused dumb-fire to defeat assaults.

Meh.

[The6thMessenger]

Willard Phule, on 14 October 2020 - 06:08 AM, said:

TMs are supposed to have one type of ammo that has no minimum range and does 3 points of damage like SSRMs.

Um no. The ATMs' HE ammo does 3 Damage/Missile. SSRMs, like SRMs, only do 2 Damage/missile. Current MWO actually have them deal 2 Damage for Clans, 2.15 for IS.

Here's my source: https://www.sarna.ne...actical_Missile

Edited by The6thMessenger, 14 October 2020 - 04:35 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Miss Greene, on 14 October 2020 - 04:23 PM, said:

You can't dumb-fire SSRMs for two reasons:

1: muh lore - they don't fire except when guaranteed to hit

2: gameplay: renders standard SRMs somewhat irrelevant; you get the lock-on feature to delete lights and the focused dumb-fire to defeat assaults.

Meh.

Fire and forget is also against lore, so there's that. And, in TT, Streaks can be fired without a lock just like regular SRMs, so there's that.

The6thMessenger, on 14 October 2020 - 04:33 PM, said:

Um no. The ATMs' HE ammo does 3 Damage/Missile. SSRMs, like SRMs, only do 2 Damage/missile. Current MWO actually have them deal 2 Damage for Clans, 2.15 for IS.

Here's my source: https://www.sarna.ne...actical_Missile

In your haste to prove your point, did you actually take a look at that chart with regard to the ammo types? The type that does 3 points of damage, HE, has no minimum range and maxes out at 9 hexes, which is the max range for SSRMs (you can look that up on Sarna, too). Standard and ER ammo has a maximum range beyond LRMs with a minimum range of 4, which is shorter than the IS minimum range of 6....but PGI decided to give both sides the same minimum range.

Also note that the HE ammo does not lose damage as range increases like we've got here on MWO. And, again, also note that what we've got here on MWO is some sort of kludged together hybrid of all ammo types because they can't program multiple ammo types for a weapon system.

[Solarise]

Capt Deadpool, on 11 October 2020 - 07:59 PM, said:

More playable lights plz, through increasing agility and reducing hitboxes for many of the huge number of useless lights... especially now that groups and solos are merged given how MM no longer cares about matching like weights on each team, causing many players to avoid taking low tonnage mechs for fear of gimping their teams.

yea lights need more buff

[The6thMessenger]

Willard Phule, on 15 October 2020 - 07:01 AM, said:

In your haste to prove your point, did you actually take a look at that chart with regard to the ammo types? The type that does 3 points of damage, HE, has no minimum range and maxes out at 9 hexes, which is the max range for SSRMs (you can look that up on Sarna, too). Standard and ER ammo has a maximum range beyond LRMs with a minimum range of 4, which is shorter than the IS minimum range of 6....but PGI decided to give both sides the same minimum range.

Also note that the HE ammo does not lose damage as range increases like we've got here on MWO. And, again, also note that what we've got here on MWO is some sort of kludged together hybrid of all ammo types because they can't program multiple ammo types for a weapon system.

So? That's highly irrelevant.

The contention was that the ATMs were like SSRMs without minimum range, and that is so far wrong. The specific point on my post to yours is that the damage is different and unlike SSRMs.

Pointing out the differences in adaptation is useless. I'm well aware of how MWO approached ATM, I was there when it launched.