15 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

This thing has been up for 18 hours apparently.

[Thorqemada]

Yep, and i mostly agree...

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Skilltree needs to be killed off!

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Clan introduction that early was a mistake bcs Clan y) destroy the balance irrecoverable and z) mark the beginning end of the monetization sheme as Clan invalidates everything else the moment its released.

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ECM introducrion was not mentioned but to me ECM killed off many for the horrible implmentation that left you with no clue who was friend and who was foe for no IFF and one Hunchback looked like the other Hunchback bcs there was no mechstyling at that days - they all looked like one egg to another egg - and there was no working ingame voice communication at that time which came that late that people got used to ingore the option later at most.

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Solaris came in the wrong time at the wrong date (few weeks b4 the Batltetech release) and to make it successfull you need to get rid of that Divisions and implement asymetric modes with re-match and you get reward for winning ech indivdual match as wellas the whole.

And fundamentally you need to implement it b4 Faction Warfare so a competition develops instead of offering the excuse that the FW/CW that already very few played at that time bcs it had already failed would eat up the time and ressources of the comp comunity and it would be totaly impossible to field the manpower for Solaris matches aside of that the modes are boring and the divions make no sense.
The comp players had the perfect excuse not to play and everyone else played Battletech...the Qs got deserted and it was doomd from the beginning.

I absolutely do not see it taking from other buckets that much bcs for each 12vs12 or FW/CW match you can have probably 10 to 20 Solaris matches that in theory should start quicker as less mm is needed and be resolved sooner but well...it was doomed from the beginning...

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Map + Mode Voting was not spoken off - it failed to help monetize as well as it failed to attract players and very probably it in the end had a net loss of players instead of a net increase.

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Engine desync had to be bcs the way Engines were implemented it made every Mech but the fastest (be it quirks or lore vaues) having a big disadvantage bcs percentage values give the most to those that already have the most and everyone else falls behind.

The rule of diminishing return in a percent based world is inverted to the rule in the real world where for each speed increase it becomes exponentially harder to make it faster again - in Mechwarrior it becomes easier instead.

Thus engine sync killed the validity of 80% to 90% of the 600+ Mechs ingame...it had to be de-synced!

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Btw. is the careless and i could even call it disruptive way how all the percentage based increases work in this game the bane of any balancing!

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MWO/PGI/IGP never had a working monetization strategy - that Mechpacks financed the game was an incidentally development bcs everything else did not work out.

Edited by Thorqemada, 16 October 2020 - 03:45 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Thorqemada, on 16 October 2020 - 03:30 AM, said:

Skilltree needs to be killed off!

Skill-Tree is actually okay, the problem is the skills themselves. Simplifying it, from like 91 nodes to probably 31 with more linear skills would be nice.

When it first launched, you actually need to buy back the already-bought nodes. And that was stupid.

The mechs are hard to skill up, and the skills themselves are kind of worthless individually.

I liked the Ammo/Ton boost, because it helped a lot to the lights that barely have any ammo.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 October 2020 - 04:22 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Well, i dare to disagree - i have worked myelf through the skilltree especially for my Thunderbolt and it took a long time and much money to experiment and make it right as i wanted it.
Yes - the Skilltree can be used and is usefull in certain ways albeit - it is much to hardcore and each step is entirely unrewarding.

In this shape and form it needs to be killed off as it does not achieve its goal to make the game more interesting and inviting for old and new players alike - it is only a chore!


PS: Yeah, the rescaling, everyone was so excited and thought it would be the columbus egg.
I asked that time "what is the volume of a barndoor?" but they did it anyway.
Btw - Awesomes were called Barndoors that time...

And you can NOT solve the problem with rescaling - you need to do it with quirks bcs if you want to do to with the 3D-2D Silhouette of a Mech than every Mech must look like each other with identical Weapon Hardpoints which obviously will not work - you would end up with 1 Mech and 1 Mech alone...

Barndoors need not Armor Quirks - they need increased Crit-Hit resistance imo bcs Armor goes away - resistance stays and the disadvantage of Barndorrs is a staying disadvantage that needs to be countered with a staying advantage value!

Edited by Thorqemada, 16 October 2020 - 05:14 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Thorqemada, on 16 October 2020 - 03:30 AM, said:

Skilltree needs to be killed off!

I agree and disagree at the same time. Skill trees are a necessary evil for the mechs that are under performing that need those buffs. If we were to remove skill trees/quirks, then there needs to be a global buff for every mech, equipment, etc. which in a sense I think is healthier for balance. However, I don't see MW:O doing that anytime soon since it would be extremely time consuming to not only removing the system, but proposing a better replacement system.

[Thorqemada]

They need to reinvent skilltree - and it can absolutely be Mechbased!

[The6thMessenger]

Thorqemada, on 16 October 2020 - 05:15 AM, said:

They need to reinvent skilltree - and it can absolutely be Mechbased!

Actually, I think they need to do away with most of the quirks, saved for those with massive hitboxes like the Hunchback. And then implement different trees for different mechs, standing in for quirks.

After Volumetric Rescale and general rework on the Engine Desync.

[The6thMessenger]

I've watched the whole thing, and I agree that MWO is now mostly a game of lights and mediums, a bit of heavies and little assaults. The lights and meds got too much quirks to compensate, and Dire Wolf is rendered mostly a giant fragile target.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 October 2020 - 06:56 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Yeah, there is a lot of quirking around and minimizing the amount would help greatly!

[VonBruinwald]

The6thMessenger, on 16 October 2020 - 05:46 AM, said:

Actually, I think they need to do away with most of the quirks, saved for those with massive hitboxes like the Hunchback. And then implement different trees for different mechs, standing in for quirks.

Balance the tech then roll back the quirks.

Quirks should be there for flavour, not viability.

[CFC Conky]

The6thMessenger, on 16 October 2020 - 04:11 AM, said:

Skill-Tree is actually okay, the problem is the skills themselves. Simplifying it, from like 91 nodes to probably 31 ...

The mechs are hard to skill up, and the skills themselves are kind of worthless individually.

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Quite so, imo.

How long does it take for a new player to get the 91 nodes required to fully skill a mech? Too long.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[LordNothing]

i like what i heard in 206 about pruining the nods and making them mech specific. but that sounds like a lot of work, coming up with custom trees for 800 something mechs.

thats also gonna be a problem with the trash tier buff ive been requesting. i mean even if the bring the bottom 10% of mechs up to the center, thats like 80 mechs to re-balance.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 October 2020 - 12:11 PM.

[LordNothing]

VonBruinwald, on 16 October 2020 - 10:06 AM, said:

Balance the tech then roll back the quirks.

Quirks should be there for flavour, not viability.

i actually like the quirks for flavor, but some mechs are so unbuffable that there is no other option. how do you make a spider 5v viable without huge mpl quirks? mpl is the best laser you can use due to low hardpoint count and the fact that they are both ct. maybe if snub did 12 damage*, but it doesnt (snub damage quirk maybe). other than that or adding more hardpoints there is nothing you can do.

*i kind of think snub needs more damage anyway to make it viable. perhaps implement an extra 2 damage of splash like the clan version or give it a point blank damage spike (12-15) that tapers down to 10 around 120m. sort of the reverse of the curve that clan lrms have.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 October 2020 - 12:09 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Thorqemada, on 16 October 2020 - 03:30 AM, said:

Yep, and i mostly agree...

For every person that hates something anther one liked it. In the end nothing here would have saved the game.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

CFC Conky, on 16 October 2020 - 10:34 AM, said:

How long does it take for a new player to get the 91 nodes required to fully skill a mech? Too long.

But how long does it take for an old player to get 91 nodes ? Too fast.

Make the first node cheaper, then increase the cost of each next one.

Give a player a way to go beyond 91 skill points, like if he resets his mech to 0 xp after unlocking 91 skill nodes, his mech gains an extra skill point to spend (so 92 skill points the first time he does it) : Gives players with maxed mechs something to do, other then being stuck playing all their mechs at their full 91 skill point strength.

[Thorqemada]

Monkey Lover, on 16 October 2020 - 12:42 PM, said:

For every person that hates something anther one liked it. In the end nothing here would have saved the game.

There is nothing wrong with hating something about a game, some people even need to have a love-hate relationshsip bcs the hate makes them apreciate the love or the hate is a vent for other things outside of the games scope.

Every game should have elements that act as hate-sacrifices...

Wrong is when you try to make the hate go away by taking the love away!!!

Edited by Thorqemada, 16 October 2020 - 01:37 PM.