42 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

xX PUG Xx, on 25 October 2020 - 05:22 AM, said:

I know most of that is sarcasm but the idea that "elite" T1 teams don't Nascar is hysterical at best, they are probably the most prevalent users of the "tactic" that I have seen. Over the last few days I've been playing from 10-11am through to 10-11pm and every time there is a group of players, even some of the best in the game, it is an instant Nascar race. There are no tactics, no straight firefights, not even what could be considered a fun brawl. Just an incessant run to the right at start, get to the tail of the enemy line and rotate left. Ad-infinitum until one team is dead.

It is frustratingly, mind-numbingly boring and I can guarantee one of the biggest turn offs for any new player. Hell, as a long time player of the game it is succeeding in making me want to stop playing once again.

Yes, most of the maps have central focal points which lend themselves to this but we, as players of those maps can choose where to play on them. If there are no tactical reasons to head straight to the centre, then we can choose where to fight on any map. Therefore the design of the map is only partially to blame and it's us, as the players on those maps, that are the prime instigators and perpetuators of the whole thing. We CHOOSE to Nascar and then come whine about it on the forums.

Personally, I'm just going to run stealth/ECM'Mechs and ignore the lot of you

Nah it byproduct of mechs having different speeds and slower mechs getting left behind.

[xX PUG Xx]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 05:26 AM, said:

Nah it byproduct of mechs having different speeds and slower mechs getting left behind.

Again, this is a choice the players make. We don't HAVE to use full throttle from the instant we spawn, we CHOOSE to do it (or not). Therefore the speed of separation is a choice, not a necessity and unless there is a tactical reason for running straight to the middle of a map (domination/theta cap) we are choosing to leave the slowest 'Mechs behind.

[The pessimistic optimist]

xX PUG Xx, on 25 October 2020 - 05:39 AM, said:

Again, this is a choice the players make. We don't HAVE to use full throttle from the instant we spawn, we CHOOSE to do it (or not). Therefore the speed of separation is a choice, not a necessity and unless there is a tactical reason for running straight to the middle of a map (domination/theta cap) we are choosing to leave the slowest 'Mechs behind.

How is it the player choice when there in an Annihilator say there a newer player. He there being an Annihilator with there big guns shooting stuff. When the enemy team starts to move and forces his team mates to move some. So they all start to move and as they move the slower mechs start to get little bit behind the faster guys. Soon Annihilator guy is at the back of the pack getting his back shot out. That not a fun new user experience.

[xX PUG Xx]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 05:55 AM, said:

How is it the player choice when there in an Annihilator say there a newer player. He there being an Annihilator with there big guns shooting stuff. When the enemy team starts to move and forces his team mates to move some. So they all start to move and as they move the slower mechs start to get little bit behind the faster guys. Soon Annihilator guy is at the back of the pack getting his back shot out. That not a fun new user experience.

The choice was that the team did not turn and face the enemy, did not support the Anni pilot. They chose to run after a slow target on the tail end of the enemy team. They chose to leave that player in the fear that they themselves would get left behind. It is a chain reaction, one that is more accurately seated in the prevalence of needing to do damage to be seen as a good pilot.

I reckon a psychologist would have a field day analysing us all.

[The pessimistic optimist]

xX PUG Xx, on 25 October 2020 - 07:00 AM, said:

The choice was that the team did not turn and face the enemy, did not support the Anni pilot. They chose to run after a slow target on the tail end of the enemy team. They chose to leave that player in the fear that they themselves would get left behind. It is a chain reaction, one that is more accurately seated in the prevalence of needing to do damage to be seen as a good pilot.

I reckon a psychologist would have a field day analysing us all.

OK great how can we make that less frustrating for new players.

[VonBruinwald]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 07:09 AM, said:

OK great how can we make that less frustrating for new players.

Mech's that are more than 150m away from another mech get a 50% top speed boost provided their heading is within a 15 degree arc of their nearest teammate.

That should help the assaults keep up.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 25 October 2020 - 12:30 PM.

[thievingmagpi]

Lack of good assault choices + people bad at assaults + team not reading the map = nascar

Two decent assault players facing left or just pressing W will stop most nascars dead in the tracks.

[The pessimistic optimist]

thievingmagpi, on 25 October 2020 - 12:25 PM, said:

Lack of good assault choices + people bad at assaults + team not reading the map = nascar

Two decent assault players facing left or just pressing W will stop most nascars dead in the tracks.

Not helping new players

[thievingmagpi]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 12:27 PM, said:

Not helping new players

Easy.

Bring the right assaults.

Be good at them.

Read the map.

[The pessimistic optimist]

thievingmagpi, on 25 October 2020 - 12:30 PM, said:

Easy.

Bring the right assaults.

Be good at them.

Read the map.

K https://www.merriam-.../dictionary/new think you missed the point

[VonBruinwald]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 12:33 PM, said:

K https://www.merriam-.../dictionary/new think you missed the point

He's not far off the mark though:
Bringing the "right" assaults is more a case of the player being a meta¹ or casual and "being good at them" would be largely irrelevant if we had a matchmaker that could create balanced matches.

The problem is there is nothing in-game to help facilitate a new players experience. The tutorial helps you learn the basic piloting controls but it doesn't provide for learning the difference between a heavy and an assault. It doesn't stress that Assault mechs require pilots to read the battlefield and know where they're going in advance because they can't reposition so easily. And sure you can dry run the maps, but it doesn't help you learn them beyond the general layout, if you could view the objective locations in testing grounds you could at least get an idea of (where is and) how to navigate from Alpha through Epi scouting out potential vantage points and routes outside of live matches.

Edit:
¹ Let's face it, if a new player is going to scout the meta before playing the game and deciding if they like it or not they shouldn't be bringing assaults to the Nascar in the first place.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 25 October 2020 - 01:02 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 25 October 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:

He's not far off the mark though:
Bringing the "right" assaults is more a case of the player being a meta¹ or casual and "being good at them" would be largely irrelevant if we had a matchmaker that could create balanced matches.

The problem is there is nothing in-game to help facilitate a new players experience. The tutorial helps you learn the basic piloting controls but it doesn't provide for learning the difference between a heavy and an assault. It doesn't stress that Assault mechs require pilots to read the battlefield and know where they're going in advance because they can't reposition so easily. And sure you can dry run the maps, but it doesn't help you learn them beyond the general layout, if you could view the objective locations in testing grounds you could at least get an idea of (where is and) how to navigate from Alpha through Epi scouting out potential vantage points and routes outside of live matches.

Edit:
¹ Let's face it, if a new player is going to scout the meta before playing the game and deciding if they like it or not they shouldn't be bringing assaults to the Nascar in the first place.

Yea but overall they could do a better job getting new players in to the game. Can't grow or maintain a game with out players.

Edited by SirSmokes, 25 October 2020 - 01:15 PM.

[Xmith]

Nascar is a beautiful tactic to behold when done right. Every team member has to be on the same page when the match starts. Anyone that is not and starts to complain, the match may be already lost.

[John Bronco]

I help new players by telling them not to play assaults. Furthermore they shouldn't start in T3 with a high chance of being pulled into fast moving T1 games.

Everyone agrees new player experience should be better than it is.

[VonBruinwald]

BlaizerP, on 25 October 2020 - 02:55 PM, said:

I help new players by telling them not to play assaults. Furthermore they shouldn't start in T3 with a high chance of being pulled into fast moving T1 games.

But how can you tell them not to assault if they can't play with you?

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 25 October 2020 - 03:20 PM, said:

But how can you tell them not to assault if they can't play with you?

Logic is hard for some of these guys

[General Solo]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 05:26 AM, said:

Nah it byproduct of mechs having different speeds and slower mechs getting left behind.

Not only that but also a by product of the fact that team mates take different amounts of time to get moving at the very start of a game.

Do we wait for that assault mech who took 15-30 after the game started to move or get some kills for the team instead?
Which is more productive and win inducing?

Its a by product of skill gap and bad match making.
We Nascar because the enemy can't stop us.

And then people come on the forums whine about it, using scrub talk like, its not fun or engaging, no skill, not a tactic etc.
That's the talk of people on the receiving end of NASCAR.

For people on the giving end of Nascar it's GREAT, Fun, very engaging, an awesome tactic, and skillful in as much that the giver/winner has more skill than the NASCAR receiver.

After all one mech was out of position and the other mech was in a perfect position for a easy kill.

So we NASCARer's are teaching those people about how being out position is bad for your TTL and teaching them to maybe bring a faster mech.

Also us NASCARer's are teaching PGI the importance of guid match making and that maybe they should put on their big Match making pants on.

More reasons for nascar from another post I recently made.

OZHomerOZ, on 25 October 2020 - 07:24 AM, said:

No its a by product of knowing where the easy kills will be and GETTING THEM KILLS.
Instead of waiting another 2 minutes whilst your team gets its sheet together.
So I have to choose: Give team psychological comfort via escort or Give team a enemy kill and the kill lead.

No choice! FTW!!!

What ever it takes FTW
T1 Doctrine

If NASCAR gets you and your team wins, you don't have to pay excess on your insurance, extra 150K.

Also if matchmaker was good, you would play with and against others who hate nascar and never do it and can do firing line guid.

So I say fix matchmaker and your nascar problems will go away.
Truley, Really really!

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 26 October 2020 - 12:20 AM.

[martian]

VonBruinwald, on 25 October 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

Mech's that are more than 150m away from another mech get a 50% top speed boost provided their heading is within a 15 degree arc of their nearest teammate.

That should help the assaults keep up.

Invisible rope, so to speak.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Racing games of old had an AI mechanic called rubberbanding, where the vehicle would move at insane amounts of speed to catch up with the leading vehicle...

[The pessimistic optimist]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 26 October 2020 - 02:56 AM, said:

Racing games of old had an AI mechanic called rubberbanding, where the vehicle would move at insane amounts of speed to catch up with the leading vehicle...

Yea that was the worst!!!