32 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

It's almost like it's going out of it way to make solo drops suck.

[martian]

SirSmokes, on 30 October 2020 - 10:54 AM, said:

It's almost like it's going out of it way to make solo drops suck.

It is PGI's intent. It was Russ Bullock's and Paul Inouye's deliberate decision to allow pre-made groups harvest casual solo players. They knew well what they were doing.

If you dislike their decision, you should inform Russ Bullock on Twitter.

[The pessimistic optimist]

martian, on 30 October 2020 - 11:02 AM, said:

It is PGI's intent. It was Russ Bullock's and Paul Inouye's deliberate decision to allow pre-made groups harvest casual solo players. They knew well what they were doing.

If you dislike their decision, you should inform Russ Bullock on Twitter.

Not really what you would call a casual player but as far as time I can't play as much as I would like. It a super roll of the dice dropping solo but sure sucks when you have to try play twice as well because the deck is stacked

[Thorqemada]

Or send Bombadil (then new CM) a PM - probably both.


Bombadil is this guy:
https://mwomercs.com...65-daeron-katz/

Edited by Thorqemada, 30 October 2020 - 11:22 AM.

[Willard Phule]

SirSmokes, on 30 October 2020 - 10:54 AM, said:

It's almost like it's going out of it way to make solo drops suck.

It's a by-product of multiple bad decisions on PGI's fault, but regardless, since nothing is being done to fix the problem and with the history of decisions exactly like this, one can simply assume that it is "working as intended."

For those who don't measure their memory in news cycles, you will recall the first thing that happened to create this perfect storm of stupidity was the PSR reset. NOTHING at all wrong with that except starting everyone out right in the middle again. There was a whole lot of good thought put into the process and for the few days it existed by itself, it appeared to be doing what it was supposed to be doing.

Then, out of the blue, they decide to put 4 man groups into QP. With the typical amount of forethought, they at least announced that 1) there was no way the MM could build teams around random weights in the premade groups, so the groups would be formed with a max tonnage like in the group queue and 2) there is no way for the tier level of the premade groups to be put into consideration, not even an "average" of those in the group, without increasing match making time significantly, so that's out as well.

That means that as we speak, the MM is trying to put together a 12 man team using a 4 man group that may or may not be maxing out it's allowable tonnage and 8 solos dropping in whatever they choose. The MM chugs along with it's original set of parameters for X seconds, then starts loosening up all over the place. Number of assault,heavy,medium and light as well as the +/- 1 tier level. Pretty soon, you've got matches where one side has both a premade group of T1 comp players and 6 assaults while the other has 12 solo players between T1 and T4 with no assaults.

[Heavy Money]

I don't really get the uproar over all of this. I drop solo and also in 2-4 man groups, and I regularly fight against groups. I've rarely noticed this effect of premade groups stomping non-group teams. What I regularly see is teams of all sorts getting stomped because of terrible strategic decisions, like all clustering in low ground or having giant traffic jams or unnecessary nascars.

In my experience, having groups on each team tends to balance out. But I also see plenty of groups that aren't that great, so when i see them, I know they aren't a huge threat.

Adjusting the matchmaker to ensure that if a premade is on one team there's also one on the other team probably wouldn't hurt (except maybe hurt que times for premades). But overall, I've just never observed the phenomena that people here talk about, either from the side of a solo player or group player.

Edited by Heavy Money, 30 October 2020 - 12:45 PM.

[Black Caiman]

So just out of curiosity what sucks about solo drops so bad? From your stats on Jarl's List your number have been either flat or slightly better since the queues were merged so its not like youre getting stomped any more or less. In fact your numbers in September are perhaps your best season. Is it because you have "to try twice as hard...because the deck is stacked?" I havent found that my matches have been significantly worse or better since the PSR change and/or addition of groups to the solo queue. Initially my numbers were better with regards to win %, but thats it. They have sense leveled back off, and I drop in groups and as a solo player about equally. Do you run into the occasional super group running meta? Sure that happens, but its generally infrequent enough to not be a major detractor. Back when solo queue was just that it wasnt uncommon to have 3-4 of the best players in the match on the same team. Solo queue wasnt some magical land of excellent matches a year or two ago, and it still isnt today. You have some bad matches, some ok matches, and some good matches. Its not any different in Faction or Comp play...

[The pessimistic optimist]

Black Caiman, on 30 October 2020 - 12:50 PM, said:

So just out of curiosity what sucks about solo drops so bad? From your stats on Jarl's List your number have been either flat or slightly better since the queues were merged so its not like youre getting stomped any more or less. In fact your numbers in September are perhaps your best season. Is it because you have "to try twice as hard...because the deck is stacked?" I havent found that my matches have been significantly worse or better since the PSR change and/or addition of groups to the solo queue. Initially my numbers were better with regards to win %, but thats it. They have sense leveled back off, and I drop in groups and as a solo player about equally. Do you run into the occasional super group running meta? Sure that happens, but its generally infrequent enough to not be a major detractor. Back when solo queue was just that it wasnt uncommon to have 3-4 of the best players in the match on the same team. Solo queue wasnt some magical land of excellent matches a year or two ago, and it still isnt today. You have some bad matches, some ok matches, and some good matches. Its not any different in Faction or Comp play...

I like not always trying my hardest

Edited by SirSmokes, 30 October 2020 - 01:22 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Willard Phule, on 30 October 2020 - 11:24 AM, said:

It's a by-product of multiple bad decisions on PGI's fault, but regardless, since nothing is being done to fix the problem and with the history of decisions exactly like this, one can simply assume that it is "working as intended."

For those who don't measure their memory in news cycles, you will recall the first thing that happened to create this perfect storm of stupidity was the PSR reset. NOTHING at all wrong with that except starting everyone out right in the middle again. There was a whole lot of good thought put into the process and for the few days it existed by itself, it appeared to be doing what it was supposed to be doing.

Then, out of the blue, they decide to put 4 man groups into QP. With the typical amount of forethought, they at least announced that 1) there was no way the MM could build teams around random weights in the premade groups, so the groups would be formed with a max tonnage like in the group queue and 2) there is no way for the tier level of the premade groups to be put into consideration, not even an "average" of those in the group, without increasing match making time significantly, so that's out as well.

snip.

Ya backwards. It was the merge of the queues into the Soup queue that had people crying/yelling about a PSR reset, primarily because 1) PGI didnt know what they were doing with the Soup queue while using the Group queue MM setup. And no, the final PSR reset with everyone and their dog starting in Tier 3 was a train wreck to start with because it also fed the puppies to the sharks, and still does for any incoming new players. Anyhow...

COMBINING GROUP AND SOLO QUEUES - 4 WEEK TEST 4-27-20
https://mwomercs.com...es-4-week-test/

The above should have been done with a max 3, 1 mech/weight class, which would have allowed matching weight classes for both sides. Solo queue by itself was able to do it, if needed open it up on the last 2 spots/team. But PGI decision makers have never seriously played their own game, tis like they used the dartboard of PGI.

Followed by the PSR reset.

6-03-20 Initial PSR reset settings
https://mwomercs.com...anges-jun-2020/

6-08-20 Patch held up
https://mwomercs.com...-hold-on-patch/

6-23-20 for 6-30-20 PSR revised Reset
https://mwomercs.com...ity-version-10/

[Monkey Lover]

From what I can tell it's the people playing. They just don't care anymore.

They don't care if they win. They don't care if thier teammate dies. 10% don't even start moving when game starts. You're sure to have a few people drunk. When is the last time you saw a light mech defend an assaults from other lights?

Basically this game has turned into a joke.

[thievingmagpi]

Monkey Lover, on 30 October 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:

When is the last time you saw a light mech defend an assaults from other lights?

not really a light's job to fight other lights.

but more importantly, many people who use assaults are useless. generally I don't come back to help them because more often than not, when I do they do absolutely nothing to help.

either they decide to let me take all the aggro so they can attempt to flee without shooting, or just stand around and do basically no damage and die without doing as much as taking out 1 leg- or worse, legging me with that magnificent aim.

[Monkey Lover]

thievingmagpi, on 30 October 2020 - 11:23 PM, said:

not really a light's job to fight other lights.

but more importantly, many people who use assaults are useless. generally I don't come back to help them because more often than not, when I do they do absolutely nothing to help.

either they decide to let me take all the aggro so they can attempt to flee without shooting, or just stand around and do basically no damage and die without doing as much as taking out 1 leg- or worse, legging me with that magnificent aim.

There is my point right away. You care nothing about most the players in your team. We have a team game without team players.

Matches are bad because the players are bad. It's that simple.

[General Solo]

I disagree

I checked magpies stats and his w/l is positive so that tells me he cares about winning.
Sometimes them mates get in the way of winning, they die, you win and they still get salty, can't help them types.

Also I have many data point for the type of situation you mention, every time I have tried to save a so so out of postison assault mech both I and said assault mech have died. Empirical evidense.

I'm not doing that no more, I die and win less, no thanks.

If I win more, who cares if some team mate gets salty. We WON! Thats a good thing FYI!
I did'n't have time to hold that team mates hand, too busy winning.

Should appreciate it, not whine about it. MWO Much Whine Online.

Maybe said assaults mechs should consider if their is any thing they can do better.
Especially if they get sub 100 damage and their fellow team mate assault mech get 500 or 100 damage.
They both assualt mechs, both on the same team, in the same game, yet performance big different.

Ask yourself why?
Ask is it me or the game for my poor performance. Why didn't 1000 damage assault mech have poor performance.
After all they was in the same match, so it must be you
Look within rather than projecting your hubris onto others.



But some are of the attitude "Wot me need improvement"!!!! Impossibrul! Assualt mech is auto win!
Its the LORE! I am the LORE!

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 31 October 2020 - 02:22 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

OZHomerOZ, on 31 October 2020 - 02:15 AM, said:

I disagree

I checked magpies stats and his w/l is positive so that tells me he cares about winning.
Sometimes them mates get in the way of winning, they die, you win and they still get salty, can't help them types.

Also I have many data point for the type of situation you mention, every time I have tried to save a so so out of postison assault mech both I and said assault mech have died. Empirical evidense.

I'm not doing that no more, I die and win less, no thanks.

If I win more, who cares if some team mate gets salty. We WON! Thats a good thing FYI!
I did'n't have time to hold that team mates hand, too busy winning.

Should appreciate it, not whine about it. MWO Much Whine Online.

Maybe said assaults mechs should consider if their is any thing they can do better.
Especially if they get sub 100 damage and their fellow team mate assault mech get 500 or 100 damage.

But some are of the attitude "Wot me need improvement"!!!! Impossibrul! Assualt mech is auto win!
Its the LORE! I am the LORE!

Stats are not always that useful. If the person is say like me and doesn't give a **** about maintaining there stats drink whiskey or smokes some weed and gets blitz sometimes and doesn't always take meta builds the stats are kind of a meaningless gauge of someone's skill.

Edited by SirSmokes, 31 October 2020 - 01:19 PM.

[General Solo]

Dude steal Russ and Pauls whiskey they so can develop the game under the legal limit and make a functional matchmaker.

A was still editing when you replied so theirs more, lol

My post was less about stats more about attitude, and I was responding to Monkeys blanket statement that Magpie didn't care about the team.

If he cares about winning its functionally like caring for the team, sincere or not I cannot say.
But when Magpie wins the team wins, And that a type of caring, a tough love.
Yes you getz but hurt but in the end its for the best. Wins a Win's a Win.


I don't expect no one to help me, when they do its a noice plus
When they don't, I already had a plan B and carry on.

Plan B spam Help, enemy spotted, launch UAV or kite, get out of Dodge early/OnTime/asap

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 31 October 2020 - 02:42 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

OZHomerOZ, on 31 October 2020 - 02:15 AM, said:

I disagree

I checked magpies stats and his w/l is positive so that tells me he cares about winning.
Sometimes them mates get in the way of winning, they die, you win and they still get salty, can't help them types.

Also I have many data point for the type of situation you mention, every time I have tried to save a so so out of postison assault mech both I and said assault mech have died. Empirical evidense.

I'm not doing that no more, I die and win less, no thanks.

If I win more, who cares if some team mate gets salty. We WON! Thats a good thing FYI!
I did'n't have time to hold that team mates hand, too busy winning.

Should appreciate it, not whine about it. MWO Much Whine Online.

Maybe said assaults mechs should consider if their is any thing they can do better.
Especially if they get sub 100 damage and their fellow team mate assault mech get 500 or 100 damage.
They both assualt mechs, both on the same team, in the same game, yet performance big different.

Ask yourself why?
Ask is it me or the game for my poor performance. Why didn't 1000 damage assault mech have poor performance.
After all they was in the same match, so it must be you
Look within rather than projecting your hubris onto others.



But some are of the attitude "Wot me need improvement"!!!! Impossibrul! Assualt mech is auto win!
Its the LORE! I am the LORE!

I dont care about assault balance or how much damage they do or dont. My point is lights used to protect them. They used to run to you if you asked for help. They don't anymore because they care only about themselves. Its not just light you can see it any time anyone ask for a push. You see it when you try to hold any line.

We need new blood because all mine is full of salt.

OZHomerOZ, on 31 October 2020 - 02:25 AM, said:

I don't expect no one to help me, when they do its a noice plus

Why even play a team game if you can't trust the people you're playing with?

[General Solo]

Monkey Lover, on 31 October 2020 - 02:48 AM, said:

I dont care about assault balance or how much damage they do or dont. My point is lights used to protect them. They used to run to you if you asked for help. They don't anymore because they care only about themselves. Its not just light you can see it any time anyone ask for a push. You see it when you try to hold any line.

We need new blood because all mine is full of salt.

I never expect a light to help me in my fat assault.
When I started out in assaults 8 years ago,
I heard the same things, light escort assault etc, or why you no escort assault light mech your job!

Then I noticed the highest performing assault pilots didn't need a light escort, when the light mech come for these pilots they get rekt.

Then I realized light mech not OP, can be countered, so I learn and now make assault bait kill boom bang light mech my specialty. (Back then sheet reg was much better).

Small brag I kill lance of light mechs once and 2 and 3 mechs in same situation many many times, who come for my fat out of position assault a$$.

Basically an assault mech just needs just ONE good hit on a light and it will run way or die in most cases.

Learn to do that.
You may have to change your mech to a different assault mech and load out depending on whats going on.

If you are in an assualt mech you have BIG GUNS, and light mechs have the least amount of armour, though I admit they have sheet reg void armour.

They are not invincible, doh better dealt with a stay frosty cool head rather than panic.
Plus their are secrets like using reserve counter turning on a circling light.

Monkey Lover, on 31 October 2020 - 02:48 AM, said:

Why even play a team game if you can't trust the people you're playing with?

Back in the (Hey) day when population allowed MM to function pretty guid apart from the upward bias, I CARED!!! and I trusted people.

Back then in T1 games I knew, that if I shoot a target my team mates would focus fire, it was a given.

Today due to non functioning guid match making, focus fire is like lost tec, especially when their are 3 cadets in a T1 game.
I still CARE!and I still trust people, just part time.

I only got so much caring capacity, so these days I reserve it for things that help win the game.
I can be a bit single minded about it.
If we get the win I'm ok about it, even if sometimes I'm the roaster and sometimes the feather duster on a win.

So yeah I know how a winning feather duster feelz.

Nothing better match making could not fix, which is the dev's department not the playerbase.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 31 October 2020 - 03:27 AM.

[xX PUG Xx]

Assaults are the biggest, slowest and (usually) most powerfully armed components of the team and should be the anchor point: they should determine the position of the rest of the team and therefore should never be "out of position".

The problem that I see in the vast majority of matches is that the Lights, Mediums and quicker Heavies instantly run for the centre of every map. This sets them as the centre point of any formation and leave slower 'Mechs hustling as best they can to either keep up or, most often, fighting a vain rear guard action to get in some damage before they are swarmed by the enemies quicker 'Mechs. Or they find a position to hide in and wait for an opportunity to join the fight where they are not getting hit from behind, usually facing calls from the lighter pilots of being useless in their 100% 'Mech because they "weren't on the frontline" or "that armour would have been useful upfront": completely ignoring the fact it was the lighter 'Mechs that ran off and left the Assault to fend for itself in the first place.

For what it's worth, my opinion is and always has been, that it is the job of the Mediums to fend off Lights, friendly Light's should be off hunting for their easy kills or at least pinning the enemy location for the rest of the team. In the meantime, if the Heavies and Mediums fall into position around the Assaults then you have a wall of firepower waiting for any Light pack looking for an easy kill.

Then you pick a spot to fight that benefits your loadouts and firepower and use that firepower to crush the enemy team: imagine that, tactical positioning with a mind to use teamwork instead of a mob mentality of running in circles?

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

..................oh wait, this is MW:O and I'm trying to preach tactics and teamwork in a discussion about Quick Play. At least I enjoyed the typing excercise.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 31 October 2020 - 05:31 AM.

[Nameless King]

xX PUG Xx, on 31 October 2020 - 05:28 AM, said:

Assaults are the biggest, slowest and (usually) most powerfully armed components of the team and should be the anchor point: they should determine the position of the rest of the team and therefore should never be "out of position".

The problem that I see in the vast majority of matches is that the Lights, Mediums and quicker Heavies instantly run for the centre of every map. This sets them as the centre point of any formation and leave slower 'Mechs hustling as best they can to either keep up or, most often, fighting a vain rear guard action to get in some damage before they are swarmed by the enemies quicker 'Mechs. Or they find a position to hide in and wait for an opportunity to join the fight where they are not getting hit from behind, usually facing calls from the lighter pilots of being useless in their 100% 'Mech because they "weren't on the frontline" or "that armour would have been useful upfront": completely ignoring the fact it was the lighter 'Mechs that ran off and left the Assault to fend for itself in the first place.

For what it's worth, my opinion is and always has been, that it is the job of the Mediums to fend off Lights, friendly Light's should be off hunting for their easy kills or at least pinning the enemy location for the rest of the team. In the meantime, if the Heavies and Mediums fall into position around the Assaults then you have a wall of firepower waiting for any Light pack looking for an easy kill.

Then you pick a spot to fight that benefits your loadouts and firepower and use that firepower to crush the enemy team: imagine that, tactical positioning with a mind to use teamwork instead of a mob mentality of running in circles?

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

..................oh wait, this is MW:O and I'm trying to preach tactics and teamwork in a discussion about Quick Play. At least I enjoyed the typing excercise.

Bad tactics are bad

[The pessimistic optimist]

Nameless King, on 31 October 2020 - 05:45 AM, said:

Bad tactics are bad

Better game modes with more clear defined objectives beside kill all enemy mechs or maybe do these objectives but nah it's still real just mostly skirmish. Call me crazy but the game modes we have right now to be fair feel just lazy. Wish this game would try and move away from the deathmatch mentality. There will still be loads of killing mechs but the teams will have other things to think about besides just kill the enemy team.