14 replies to this topic

[Knight Captain Morgan]

OK, I'd be willing to wait extra time for the match maker to put me into an even match but waiting an extra 5 minutes for the matchmaker to intentionally feed me into a stomp where the sole benefit is that the largest premade farm team gets the most satisfaction is just DUMB. You claim that letting premades farm solos was because of low population> Well take a guess at which direction your population goes when your own matchmaker favors premade farm teams' self gratification over that of the casual solo... https://twitter.com/...9771904/photo/1

Edited by Knight Captain Morgan, 01 November 2020 - 02:10 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Knight Captain Morgan, on 01 November 2020 - 01:56 PM, said:

OK, I'd be willing to wait extra time for the match maker to put me into an even match but waiting an extra 5 minutes for the matchmaker to intentionally feed me into a stomp where the sole benefit is that the largest premade farm team gets the most satisfaction is just DUMB. You claim that letting premades farm solos was because of low population> Well take a guess at which direction your population goes when your own matchmaker favors premade farm teams' self gratification over that of the casual solo... https://twitter.com/...9771904/photo/1

Sorry but I do not see how your pic supports your post. a 12 to 8 victory is not what I would call a stomp. Especially when both sides had a premade group.

[JediPanther]

I consider any time your team gets three kills or less a stomp. Even more so when I myself get half the kills in what most would call a bad build like a 3 erml stealth raven or an hmg x3 splx3 hbk build.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Darian DelFord, on 01 November 2020 - 06:05 PM, said:

Sorry but I do not see how your pic supports your post. a 12 to 8 victory is not what I would call a stomp. Especially when both sides had a premade group.

I think the issue OP has is that it was a seeming 4 man group vs 3 man group.

[Too Much Love]

My bet is at least 1\3 of forum posts since 2012 are about how badly matchmaker works.

It's not something you can fix, it is what it is.

[Black Caiman]

drunkblackstar, on 02 November 2020 - 12:57 AM, said:

My bet is at least 1\3 of forum posts since 2012 are about how badly matchmaker works.

It's not something you can fix, it is what it is.

They tried to help the matchmaker with the PSR reset, but also kinda jacked it up with the addition of groups and putting cadets in Tier 3. Im with you though sometimes you just got to chalk it up in the "well this just an ***-whooping I gotta take" category. The matchmaker as far as I can tell is functioning basically the same now as it ever did, but it just has to factor groups into it now. Youre gonna get stomped, youre gonna stomp, youre gonna have close matches, youre gonna have nail-biters, etc, etc. You see all the "oh look at the stomps threads" but where are the "look how close this match was, good job MM" threads? Its always easy to complain about how its performing, but Ive been involved in enough good matches to know it does its job well...sometimes...

[Gagis]

Black Caiman, on 02 November 2020 - 06:47 AM, said:

They tried to help the matchmaker with the PSR reset, but also kinda jacked it up with the addition of groups and putting cadets in Tier 3. Im with you though sometimes you just got to chalk it up in the "well this just an ***-whooping I gotta take" category. The matchmaker as far as I can tell is functioning basically the same now as it ever did, but it just has to factor groups into it now. Youre gonna get stomped, youre gonna stomp, youre gonna have close matches, youre gonna have nail-biters, etc, etc. You see all the "oh look at the stomps threads" but where are the "look how close this match was, good job MM" threads? Its always easy to complain about how its performing, but Ive been involved in enough good matches to know it does its job well...sometimes...

Yeah they changed a dazzingly large number of parameters at once but the reset was a notable improvement regardless. A few iterations of adjusting parameters such as increasing the significance of tonnage in calculations would go a long way now there is a good starting point to work with.

The cadet thing is tricky. We, the playerbase, made A LOT of noise about needing a zero-sum system when the changes were presented, and for the system to be zero-sum, new players have to all start at the middle or the system will be skewed. However, I do not know if this skew would be a large problem or just a minor one.

One way to make things easier for cadets would be to tighten tier groupings so that matches can be made with players within +-1 tiers instead of the current +-2. This way cadets would never encounter tier 1 players.

[LordNothing]

i played a few games on my new nova cat last night. and it seemed as if people were competing with members of their own team to see who can die last. you might be able to attribute one or two early deaths to leeroy players, but when that number gets to 11 its more of a you problem than a them problem.

maybe if you nerfed the rewards for damage and kills and buff the rewards for victory people would be more willing to fight and die together. make the victory condition a hard multiplier on all other scores, 0.5 for a loss, 1 for a tie 1.5 for a win.

the only real downside for this is you might see more objective rushes, specifically on assault and incursion. objective rushes are subdued in conquest given the number and distribution of cap points and irrelevant in domination because there is only one objective that everyone has to rush for. easily fixed by removing assault. a few minor tweaks to incursion could be used to reduce rushes. like have an audible warning when walls are destroyed and put more turrets (perhaps ac10/20 and srm) at the gates, or simply up the objective hit points.

[Nightbird]

The PSR assigned to players is blind to their actual skill. No matter how long the Match Maker takes to make matches, you're going to continue to get bad games.

Edited by Nightbird, 02 November 2020 - 07:52 AM.

[Horseman]

Black Caiman, on 02 November 2020 - 06:47 AM, said:

They tried to help the matchmaker with the PSR reset, but also kinda jacked it up with the addition of groups and putting cadets in Tier 3.

It worked - until they relaxed the tier restrictions, then it broke down as usual.

[Willard Phule]

Look, if winning is important to you, then you need to join a premade group before dropping. On the upside, you won't be waiting for matches as long as the solos are, since they get priority. That means you're going to have to figure out where they are on Teamspeak or Discord, join their lobby and wait for instructions. Is what it is. QP is the group queue modified to limit the comp players to 4 guys at a time, in the hopes that it will limit the perception of the solos being farmed constantly. That obviously failed.

Beyond that, you've got the Matchmaker that can't deal with such a low population. It opens up it's valves to the point that the whole tier thing becomes purposeless. Not much any of us can do about that. Or the group thing. Just have to learn to adapt and find a way to make it work. Pretty much like always.

[Heavy Money]

I see tons of stomps that don't have premades on either side, so obviously premades aren't he only factor here. And according to data I saw posted somewhere, frequency of stomps has only increased by a percentage point since the queues were merged, so it couldn't have been that large a factor.

Is there any way to verify specifically that a stomp is caused by premades? Like, if that premade team has most of the kills, then its a strong argument. But that doesn't mean they did well specifically because they were a premade. I see plenty of premades that don't really work together at all.

Its complicated by the fact that top players tend to play regularly, and so tend to end up in groups. That doesn't mean its the group coordination that is causing their power. Its too easy to see a bunch of the same unit tag and just assume that's why one side lost.

[Too Much Love]

Black Caiman, on 02 November 2020 - 06:47 AM, said:

They tried to help the matchmaker with the PSR reset, but also kinda jacked it up with the addition of groups and putting cadets in Tier 3. Im with you though sometimes you just got to chalk it up in the "well this just an ***-whooping I gotta take" category. The matchmaker as far as I can tell is functioning basically the same now as it ever did, but it just has to factor groups into it now. Youre gonna get stomped, youre gonna stomp, youre gonna have close matches, youre gonna have nail-biters, etc, etc. You see all the "oh look at the stomps threads" but where are the "look how close this match was, good job MM" threads? Its always easy to complain about how its performing, but Ive been involved in enough good matches to know it does its job well...sometimes...

Don't think that inclusion of groups makes any difference now (there were some highly competitive groups before, but they gone).

Most of the groups I see now are as incompetent as the rest of the sole players and don't affect the outcome of the match. I would prefer to have one skilled player in my team than 4 men team of average players.

The mystery is why - as my experience tells - one team always tends to have very serious advantage over the second one. It seems like the places in one of the team intentionally filled with below average players, and if you have 4 of those in your team against the more or less professional opponents is basically the death sentence.

[Espada De La Noche]

Nightbird, on 02 November 2020 - 07:43 AM, said:

The PSR assigned to players is blind to their actual skill. No matter how long the Match Maker takes to make matches, you're going to continue to get bad games.

This is part of the problem too, the PSR is more indicative of skill then it was prior to the reset, but it still doesnt do a great job. Match score is not a true indicator of skill when used in isolation (though it can help in that measurement in conjunction with other criteria), so the fact that the current PSR is based solely on MS is not ideal. Another problem is people were basically unwilling to wait for matchmaker to try and make a better match, so PGI made matchmaker work faster, but in doing so it had to open up to lower tiers therefore likely causing lower match quality.

[TheCaptainJZ]

8/12 is honestly a good match. A 4 man vs a 3 man is honestly not an unreasonably unbalanced scenario. A 2/12 match is a stomp and a 8 man vs a 5 man is questionable. But if that's all you have to work with, that's what you have to work with. There is no perfect or even ideal situation here, especially outside primetime. There's far too many variables to be able to consistently construct good matches. I mean, all it takes is one player to make a mistake to ruin the quality of the match. That's just the reality of it. Is it great when one player carries his whole team? No, of course not. But you're always going to have some matches like that. The best way to improve the matchmaker is to give it more players to use. And regardless of how many it has, these kinds of matches will still happen in this game.