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Monday Mechwarrior Update With Daeron


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#61 eggyh4ck99BarrelsAndRumAint1Yar

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 12:51 PM

I had a thought today, what about mechs taking damage after a match? like in solaris and faction play but maybe not quickplay?
maybe factions can supply its members with stock mechs with the camo for each faction but if you bring your custom mechs
youre gonna pay cbills to have them repaired if they take damage or get destroyed?
maybe players can purchase mech insurance with cbills ?
right now theres no repercussions for losing mechs in faction play or solaris

#62 eggyh4ck99BarrelsAndRumAint1Yar

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 01:05 PM

View PostLockheed_, on 03 November 2020 - 12:53 PM, said:


They want to get more people to play the game, not drive everyone off.


greater risk, greater reward

#63 StefanAmaris

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 02:00 PM

The best way to bring new players into MWO is to ask friends and train them in a private while using VOIP.
Low Hanging fruit to improve that: add VOIP to the Group Screen.

Most new players will probably come from Mechwarrior 5 after the Steam Release oder the Epic Store Holiday sales.
Low Hanging fruit: gift Players who buy MW5 or the DLC a medium Mech in MWO.

#64 Fetherator

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 02:25 PM

New Player Experience!
- New Game Mode: Escort the Newbie.
So the New Player can see what happens and learn while walking the Map Points given by Escorting Points on Map.

Purpose of Matchmode would be that One Team is Escorting/Defending and the Opponents are chasing the New Player

Edited by Fetherator, 03 November 2020 - 02:29 PM.


#65 Sapper Nick

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 03:44 PM

Hello to all from SAPPER NICK. I'm am new to the forum thing but would like to be included in the talks of the game with DAERON. I am the leader and Creator of SPNC unit which is going on it's second year in the game. I have questions and input for the game and will be the voice of my guys with suggestions and questions. Look forward to chatting in the future Sapper Nick

Unit suggestions as of 4 November

LandoToday at 12:09 AM
If it is not a headshot make an ejection animation: smoke at head, with a grey coloured ppc shot animation to the sky.
Better for immersion.


LandoYesterday at 9:35 PM
Expande the choice menu before quickplay games with an extra line on top.
Three options:
-Normal Spawnpoints.
-Random Spawn Clustered (where the 3 lances per side are spawning together, with some minimum distance to the enemy force).
-Random Spawn (all six lances spawn randomly, with a minimum distance to eachother).


XerBlackWolfYesterday at 9:18 PM
so lets start with basic of basics just optimize the game so it can run at decent framerate instead of jumping mess depending on the map

[color=#3498DB][SPNC] CT Sparty[/color][color=var(--text-muted)]Yesterday at 3:33 PM[/color]

#1 - Looking backward: 3rd person view drone DOES NOT provide rear view, a basic togglable rear-view cam would do the job. (I'd like back-up, auto-blinkers & brake lights but that's just me) #2 - UAVs: To allow / enable spectator mode for all team members from a fixed position (where it was launched) for the life duration of the UAV. #3 -An artillery / air strike warning advice in HUD: the same we get incoming missiles we would get incoming arty / air strike if you and your sensors are located in the strike's radius (apparently red smoke isn't enough).. thx for reading ®

Edited by Sapper Nick, 07 November 2020 - 07:09 AM.


#66 The6thMessenger

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 03:50 PM

View PostOldbob10025, on 03 November 2020 - 11:51 AM, said:


Thats a skill I have to learn is to READ a AUDIO BOOK while driving... YUK YUK But I get what you say my friend Posted Image


I meant listen. But fair enough.

#67 crazytimes

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 04:14 PM

View Postblackbullitt, on 03 November 2020 - 11:41 AM, said:

sorry but maybe no one else has the stones to tell you. a podcast is not sitting on my couch. five minutes is enough. should be the quick update! so i got nothing out of it because it was too freaking long, stopped at 4:57. just do a pop in, five minutes or less. dont need sean either, sorry i get nothing out of your talking to each other, do that on your time. we want to hear facts, you should hire me i would do way better than you are right now. the podcast thing is dumb.


This.

I'm not spending 2 hours listening to "our dwindling player base may be addressed at some point". Maybe a quick text update of what's actually happening would be a lot more useful.


#68 Akillius

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 06:45 PM

View PostMiss Greene, on 02 November 2020 - 09:25 PM, said:

This is all probably more than what PGI is willing to invest at the moment, but the Skill Tree in its current form should be ditched entirely.

The complete scratch built system you suggest is far far more expensive and time consuming.
If it got into game then it would be tested even less then Skill Tree system.

The Skill Tree system was hated pretty quick when it was added, there was a massive call to return the simple Modules system that was ignored and the Skill Tree in 2017 was a primary cause for the 2nd largest exodus of MWO playerbase.

Obviously you agreed with all my other points which were in order of expense and time. My last one was skill tree overhaul.
What I suggested only used simple math to reduce the existing nodes, & to remove nodes as unlock requirements.
The math used is just simple division.
ie) if 5 nodes of same name give 2% bonus then divvy it up, 5 x 2% = 10% therefore 1 node becomes 10%, but 2 nodes would become 5% each, 3 nodes would become 3.33% each, etc.
- Change names to avoid confusion: Skill Tree System = Upgrades System, Nodes = Upgrades (or some such)
- Disconnect and remove the messy web of nodes.
- Reduce to Streamline and make upgrading seem like it has some affect.
Current complaint about Skill Tree is adding a node or 2 just doesn't add up to jack, at least that's the perception.

This concept that only mastered mechs are useful is up to a players ability and mindset.
But hey I'm just average player and find match maker has upward bias, so I just start with 25 sp on mech to stay in tier 3.
Ask any long time older players and they'll all confirm I'm 100% average and there's no way I should be tier 2.

New Players should never be in matches vs tier 1, 2, or verses premade teams of seal clubbers.
Brand new accounts should not start at tier 3, but start at midway through tier 4.

Edited by Akillius, 03 November 2020 - 06:47 PM.


#69 Y E O N N E

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 07:04 PM

View PostAkillius, on 03 November 2020 - 06:45 PM, said:

The complete scratch built system you suggest is far far more expensive and time consuming.
If it got into game then it would be tested even less then Skill Tree system.

The Skill Tree system was hated pretty quick when it was added, there was a massive call to return the simple Modules system that was ignored and the Skill Tree in 2017 was a primary cause for the 2nd largest exodus of MWO playerbase.

Obviously you agreed with all my other points which were in order of expense and time. My last one was skill tree overhaul.
What I suggested only used simple math to reduce the existing nodes, & to remove nodes as unlock requirements.
The math used is just simple division.
ie) if 5 nodes of same name give 2% bonus then divvy it up, 5 x 2% = 10% therefore 1 node becomes 10%, but 2 nodes would become 5% each, 3 nodes would become 3.33% each, etc.
- Change names to avoid confusion: Skill Tree System = Upgrades System, Nodes = Upgrades (or some such)
- Disconnect and remove the messy web of nodes.
- Reduce to Streamline and make upgrading seem like it has some affect.
Current complaint about Skill Tree is adding a node or 2 just doesn't add up to jack, at least that's the perception.

This concept that only mastered mechs are useful is up to a players ability and mindset.
But hey I'm just average player and find match maker has upward bias, so I just start with 25 sp on mech to stay in tier 3.
Ask any long time older players and they'll all confirm I'm 100% average and there's no way I should be tier 2.

New Players should never be in matches vs tier 1, 2, or verses premade teams of seal clubbers.
Brand new accounts should not start at tier 3, but start at midway through tier 4.


I fully understand what you did and fully understand that what I propose has close to zero chance of being considered. My point is that what you propose is still trash and technically doesn't even address the issue of grind because the XP cost per skill can go up to compensate for there being more skills. Hope that clears it up.

And do not mistake me not talking to your other points as an endorsement. That's just plain stupid.

#70 slide

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 07:13 PM

Go back to 2011 and look at the design brief for this game (long since removed from this site) or even the 2015 "launch" video and build that game.

Build a game around the lore that is more than just an "arena shooter with mechs" and you might just actually convince some of the most passionate members of this community, who are long gone, to come back and not only play, but help build the player base (no offence to players still trying to do that). PGI has burnt so much good will that it is actually hard to grasp the extent of it.

QOL, match maker, skill tree and all the other "improvements" aren't going to bring back old players nor attract new ones. You need goals and challenges to keep peoples interest and a living, dynamic IS that player/group actions can affect, that will keep people engaged far longer that the current "Poke mech" game we have now will.

People not only like "blowing stuff up" they also like building things. Building units, fiefdoms, empires even, give people the tools to do that and you might be onto a winner. At this point you need to leverage every aspect that makes people want to play games if you want to be successful and then let people choose what part of that game they want to play.

I personally have enough stuff in this game that I will never need to spend another cent on what is currently available. I have enough mechs to form my own regiment, enough Cbills, to buy a planet, enough MC, GXP etc to build another regiment. You want me to spend money, let me get something I can't get now. How about a Planet. 3000 of those up for grabs, auction them off to players/units, theirs to defend and derive income from. Use that income to buy dropship capacity, defenses, jumpship transport to go on the attack/gain more planets. The possibilities are endless.

Yeah I know I'm dreaming. But more of the same just won't improve the player base numbers.

Edited by slide, 03 November 2020 - 09:09 PM.


#71 Akillius

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 07:50 PM

View PostMiss Greene, on 03 November 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:


I fully understand what you did and fully understand that what I propose has close to zero chance of being considered. My point is that what you propose is still trash and technically doesn't even address the issue of grind because the XP cost per skill can go up to compensate for there being more skills. Hope that clears it up.

And do not mistake me not talking to your other points as an endorsement. That's just plain stupid.

Oh so that's how it is... well let me be 100% blunt.
Your "restart from scratch" concept is extremely illogical as its only design is to serve your purposes and for exploits.
Trebley-so when taken into consideration there's already 3 long suggested simple solutions to Skill trees at PGI's disposal.
And your strawman ultra-defensive position that XP costs will go up is... just that a strawman argument.
But because you suggested it..........
I will now strongly recommend and fully back Your idea that ALL XP gains need to be halved. TYVM for that idea.

PS. Your use of name calling & toxic-trash-talk is also counterproductive and completely non-constructive.
It also shows your lack of ability to simply debate facts much less debate mere concepts.

#72 NASCAR is BAD gameplay STOP IT

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 08:30 PM

People have very different memories here about what has happened in the past.
I know its hard to doublecheck details and to find citations for how things were in the past. But best is at least to not state things as hard facts. eg, IIRC (if i recall correctly)... x y and z used to work like ... please correct me if i'm wrong.

RE: the skill tree.
People liked the old one but not the lack of choice. All people really wanted was 2 or 3 more options and no extra points to spend (eg 12 points & 15 nodes, a 4:5 ratio of points to total nodes).

So there was a small amount of player choice. what we got was 3x as many nodes as points to spend, but as Phil and Mike discussed, this is really just artificial choice.

As far as changes, I would accept reverting to the old system and adding a few nodes for player choice. Or pruning the existing tree and removing/re-arranging pointless gating nodes.
Either of these should work, whichever is less work for PGI to implement.

edit: oops wrong login. - Kamikaze Viking

Edited by NASCAR is BAD gameplay STOP IT, 03 November 2020 - 08:32 PM.


#73 X Player

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Posted 04 November 2020 - 03:57 AM

View PostMiss Greene, on 02 November 2020 - 09:25 PM, said:


This is all probably more than what PGI is willing to invest at the moment, but the Skill Tree in its current form should be ditched entirely. A list of straight upgrades you can just tack onto your 'Mech, with the only persistent cost being opportunity cost, is poor and leaves newer players with un-mastered 'Mechs out to dry. Even I don't play un-mastered 'Mechs much because they are not fun compared to the ones I've already sunk so much time into getting in shape.

I would much rather the skill tree adopt a Perks vs. Drawbacks system. Every 'Mech has a point cap and every skill has a cost that counts against that cap. Skills are sorted into Perks, which provide a positive enhancement and count toward the cap, and Drawbacks, which provide a detrimental enhancement and deduct away from the cap. The point cap is intentionally not big enough to add on more than one major or a couple minor Perks; to get more, you need to apply detriments to deduct from the cost.
[...]

This is great I really hope they do exactly this (at least at some point in time). It would mean balancing individual Mechs would be easily achieved by giving underperforming Mechs a larger Perk cap to work with, instead of them having to manually adjust quirks, which I generally dislike as well.

Edited by X Player, 04 November 2020 - 04:06 AM.


#74 Sapper Nick

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Posted 04 November 2020 - 05:17 AM

View PostSapper Nick, on 03 November 2020 - 03:44 PM, said:

Hello to all from SAPPER NICK. I'm am new to the forum thing but would like to be included in the talks of the game with DAERON. I am the leader and Creator of SPNC unit which is going on it's second year in the game. I have questions and input for the game and will be the voice of my guys with suggestions and questions. Look forward to chatting in the future Sapper Nick

as of 4 November here is some unit members input:
LandoToday at 12:09 AM
If it is not a headshot make an ejection animation: smoke at head, with a grey coloured ppc shot animation to the sky.
Better for immersion.

LandoYesterday at 9:35 PM
Expande the choice menu before quickplay games with an extra line on top.
Three options:
-Normal Spawnpoints.
-Random Spawn Clustered (where the 3 lances per side are spawning together, with some minimum distance to the enemy force).
-Random Spawn (all six lances spawn randomly, with a minimum distance to eachother).


XerBlackWolfYesterday at 9:18 PM
so lets start with basic of basics just optimize the game so it can run at decent framerate instead of jumping mess depending on the map

#75 Be my Guest

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Posted 04 November 2020 - 08:55 AM

Currently the skilltree is a burdon for the game. But I would rather like PGI to tweak the current system, as to create something new. I dont believe PGI would be able to come up with something better. especially not in a short time and I am not willing to wait to long.

An automatic skilling system like the old one seems really boring. The idea of having a possibilty to tweak a mech in different directions seems legit, as long as its reasonable. But another reskilling would rather drive more people away. Hence they should tweak the current one.

IMO they should try to cut the lower part of the skilltree and add that values to the node in the upper part of the tree. If the upper nodes have a bigger value then the lower ones, that would make the tree more newplayer friendly.
In additiion they should delete the jumpjet branch und add a couple of nodes with significant values to mobility.

the Auxiliary branch should also be deleted in the current form. there are too many strikes on the battlefield in sum. I would prefer of only light mechs could carry 2 strikes. Lights and maybe also (some) medium mechs should have easier access to consumables. Maybe the different clases could have even different prices on consumables. As lights carriing also more UAVs would give them a further purpose.

#76 StefanAmaris

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Posted 04 November 2020 - 09:05 AM

View PostNASCAR is BAD gameplay STOP IT, on 03 November 2020 - 08:30 PM, said:

People have very different memories here about what has happened in the past.
I know its hard to doublecheck details and to find citations for how things were in the past. But best is at least to not state things as hard facts. eg, IIRC (if i recall correctly)... x y and z used to work like ... please correct me if i'm wrong.

RE: the skill tree.
People liked the old one but not the lack of choice. All people really wanted was 2 or 3 more options and no extra points to spend (eg 12 points & 15 nodes, a 4:5 ratio of points to total nodes).

The old skill tree was a clear ploy to force the players to grind up 3 Mechs to master the one Mech they wanted to play.
It was just in the game to give PGI a reason to sell 3 almost identical Mechs for 10 - 40$.
And even after buying a 3 Mech Mech Pack customers have to grind for XP or convert via Microtransactions XP to GXP.

The actual Skill node systems just adds XP-Grinding to Quickplay.
And while grinding up XPs a player in an unskilled Mech is an easy target due missing armor & structure nodes, so spending MCs for GXP is still encouraged.

The main disadvantage of the actual skill node system is balancing: using the skill nodes to boost quirks is the way to go, making balancing by adding quirks highly connected to skill level.

IMHO: just get rid of the skill node system.

If PGI want's a XP grind in MWO: add piloting skill rolls after Critical Hits to Gyro & Hip, and add Pilots with piloting skill that goes up by XP grinding.
Stuff like access to 1 and a 2nd Air Strike / Artillery / UAV / Coolant Shoot may connected to a pilots military rank, so grinding up ranks could be a thing.

And to make it hurtfull: cockpit hits could kill the Pilot with permadeath, so keep some pilots in reserve just in case. Posted Image

#77 Oldbob10025

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Posted 04 November 2020 - 09:33 AM

View Postblackbullitt, on 03 November 2020 - 11:41 AM, said:

sorry but maybe no one else has the stones to tell you. a podcast is not sitting on my couch. five minutes is enough. should be the quick update! so i got nothing out of it because it was too freaking long, stopped at 4:57. just do a pop in, five minutes or less. dont need sean either, sorry i get nothing out of your talking to each other, do that on your time. we want to hear facts, you should hire me i would do way better than you are right now. the podcast thing is dumb.


Umm you could wait for daeron to post every Friday or Monday everything he learned. I don't know maybe try that.

Waiting for the response " I Hate podcasts and want the information now" wait till Friday or Monday as he explained in his post (UP THERE IN HIS POST) and no one is forcing you to watch a podcast and you will just have to wait till daeron does his thing.

Waiting for hate in 3.. 2.. 1..

One thing I think should help you in life is patience and also learn how to have constructive criticism to someone about something that you dont like and give positive things they can do to what you THINK might HELP the person in what THEY do. Sometimes they wont listen to you and that's part of life and growing up.

As far as hiring you for PGI community Manager umm ok
I spoke my peace and wont talk to you again as I know how forums get and hey thats my thoughts and process them as you like and tear me a new one :) as I dont really care.

I dont know you in life and internally you might be a cool guy IDK JMO

#78 Oldbob10025

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Posted 04 November 2020 - 09:37 AM

View Postcrazytimes, on 03 November 2020 - 04:14 PM, said:

This.

I'm not spending 2 hours listening to "our dwindling player base may be addressed at some point". Maybe a quick text update of what's actually happening would be a lot more useful.


FROM DAERON ( Is reading a dying artform?)

This week I will again be meeting with Russ and Matt to go over a rough outline of a plan, based on all of the compiled feedback we went over last week. I will then post this outline for your review and discussion, while also presenting it to the developers for technical reviews. I will have this outline posted by this coming Friday Nov 6th, or Monday Nov 9th at the latest. From there, the real work begins! More on that later.

#79 Alreech

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Posted 04 November 2020 - 09:45 AM

View PostX Player, on 04 November 2020 - 03:57 AM, said:

It would mean balancing individual Mechs would be easily achieved by giving underperforming Mechs a larger Perk cap to work with, instead of them having to manually adjust quirks, which I generally dislike as well.

"Good performing Mechs" have high mounted / many hardpoints or / and good hit boxes, and can mount either the biggest weapons or many smaller weapons of the same type.
"Underperforming Mechs" have bad hit boxes or / and bad hard point placements.

Both are connected to MWOs unrestricted Mech Lab.
If you want to run an AC 20 build in an IS Medium you can choose from 25+ Mechs, because you can replace an AC 2 / AC 5 / AC 10 on those with an A20.
If you want to run a Gaus Rifle or an AC 10 or RAC 5 you can choose from even more Mechs because you can replace machine guns with these weapons.
There is no need to use an "underperforming Mech" if most loudouts can be build with almost any other Mech.

PGI tried to balancing that with better quirks for "underperforming Mechs", and it didn't work, they just created overquirked Mechs like some of the Vindicators.
Giving those Mechs a higher perk cap won't work either.

You can't fix a problem caused by the unrestriced mechlab by ignoring the cause and just giving some perks / buffs / quirks. In the best case it didn't work, in the worst case you create new balancing problems.

Balancing works best with sidegrades, it didn't work if you have unrestriced upgrades.

Edited by Alreech, 04 November 2020 - 09:46 AM.


#80 Amro One

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Posted 04 November 2020 - 09:51 AM

It's called hit boxes . . . . This is why some mech chasis are better then others.



View PostAlreech, on 04 November 2020 - 09:45 AM, said:

"Good performing Mechs" have high mounted / many hardpoints or / and good hit boxes, and can mount either the biggest weapons or many smaller weapons of the same type.
"Underperforming Mechs" have bad hit boxes or / and bad hard point placements.

Both are connected to MWOs unrestricted Mech Lab.
If you want to run an AC 20 build in an IS Medium you can choose from 25+ Mechs, because you can replace an AC 2 / AC 5 / AC 10 on those with an A20.
If you want to run a Gaus Rifle or an AC 10 or RAC 5 you can choose from even more Mechs because you can replace machine guns with these weapons.
There is no need to use an "underperforming Mech" if most loudouts can be build with almost any other Mech.

PGI tried to balancing that with better quirks for "underperforming Mechs", and it didn't work, they just created overquirked Mechs like some of the Vindicators.
Giving those Mechs a higher perk cap won't work either.

You can't fix a problem caused by the unrestriced mechlab by ignoring the cause and just giving some perks / buffs / quirks. In the best case it didn't work, in the worst case you create new balancing problems.

Balancing works best with sidegrades, it didn't work if you have unrestriced upgrades.






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