54 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 03 December 2020 - 06:56 AM, said:

Strikes/arty should require a Narc or Tag be equipped as a prerequisite to function. Afterall, you are designating a target.

They also need a range limit, how is it my ERPPC/Gauss/LRMS cap out at <2000m but my smoke-flare can be thrown 5k!

I like strikes there nice for punishing team that get too campy and stay in one place. but they are damn spammy sometimes

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 December 2020 - 09:25 AM.

[Lanzman]

R5D4, on 08 November 2020 - 05:30 PM, said:

Biggest issue I have with it as currently implemented is that it is not applied evenly across the different classes. For a light mech it's crippling if not deadly for everyone else it's a minor inconvenience which you can clearly see by the reactions of the different classes when it's encountered.- Assault, Heavy, Medium stand there and take it, light mechs sh*t a brick and run for the hills.

Either the damage should be applied evenly to all classes or it should be removed imo.

If it does stick around (and is applied more fairly) then I would want to see the changes to alerting mechs as mentioned in this thread. As it is not being able to see the smoke in different vision modes is absurd and relying on PUGS to point out smoke on comms is a recipe for disappointment.

Umm . . . you do understand that light mechs have less armor than the other classes, right? And therefore take proportionally more damage from any weapon that hits them?

[R5D4]

Lanzman, on 03 December 2020 - 08:29 AM, said:

Umm . . . you do understand that light mechs have less armor than the other classes, right? And therefore take proportionally more damage from any weapon that hits them?

Let me put it this way:

Arty takes Zero Tonnage
Arty produces Zero heat
Arty can't be seen in all vison modes
Arty can be put on top of UAVs and other places that make it invisible to the target
Arty can cripple or kill a light in one strike

What weapon does a light mech have that can do all these things to an Assault?

Can you call having a weapon that disproportionately affects one weight class over all the others with no counter good gameplay balance?

Edited by R5D4, 03 December 2020 - 04:21 PM.

[Meep Meep]

R5D4, on 03 December 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

What weapon does a light mech have that can do all these things to an Assault?

Two bonused arty strikes? It's the easiest 5 points you will ever spend on any light mech skill build. I like to work the backsides of a mech to open them up then leave it alone so it ignores me again then drop a strike right behind it. Typically a kill from the first few shells. Maybe the solution to strikes is to limit them by class?

[K O Z A K]

I died in a still fully armored sleipnir to an arty today, 1 shell opened my back armour, 2nd shell ignited an ammo explosion........I thought it was funny

[Horseman]

R5D4, on 03 December 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

Let me put it this way:
Arty takes Zero Tonnage
Arty produces Zero heat
Arty can't be seen in all vison modes
Arty can be put on top of UAVs and other places that make it invisible to the target
Arty can cripple or kill a light in one strike

What weapon does a light mech have that can do all these things to an Assault?

I think you just answered your own question.

[General Solo]

Lanzman, on 03 December 2020 - 08:29 AM, said:

Umm . . . you do understand that light mechs have less armor than the other classes, right? And therefore take proportionally more damage from any weapon that hits them?

Maybe the light mech was too slow to avoid the smoke

[Lanzman]

Yeah. Situational awareness is a good thing.

These types of arguments always amuse me. Stuff like this always seems to boil down to "I don't want to play an actual tactical combat game, I want an invulnerable mech with infinite firepower so that I can dump continuous alpha strikes into all who oppose me. But no-one else should have that and any weapon that can damage me needs to be nerfed."

[R5D4]

Meep Meep, on 03 December 2020 - 06:53 PM, said:

Two bonused arty strikes? It's the easiest 5 points you will ever spend on any light mech skill build. I like to work the backsides of a mech to open them up then leave it alone so it ignores me again then drop a strike right behind it. Typically a kill from the first few shells. Maybe the solution to strikes is to limit them by class?

So assuming for the moment the Assault even cares about the damage at two strikes (starting from being fresh). a Light has to take twice as many of the paid for option vs. an Assault taking one of the free version. Yeah that sounds balanced.

Horseman, on 04 December 2020 - 12:19 AM, said:

I think you just answered your own question.

Here is test:

Go into private lobby with a few friends, take assaults and lights. Dump Arty/Airstrikes on them repeatedly for at least 100 rounds (keep it to the free strikes to be fair and not expensive). Count how often the light mech is killed/crippled vs. the Assault Mech. I'd place money on it ending up with the light dying/being crippled at least 50% more of the time.

Edited by R5D4, 04 December 2020 - 08:03 AM.

[Meep Meep]

R5D4, on 04 December 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

So assuming for the moment the Assault even cares about the damage at two strikes (starting from being fresh). a Light has to take twice as many of the paid for option vs. an Assault taking one of the free version. Yeah that sounds balanced.




Here is test:

Go into private lobby with a few friends, take assaults and lights. Dump Arty/Airstrikes on them repeatedly for at least 100 rounds (keep it to the free strikes to be fair and not expensive). Count how often the light mech is killed/crippled vs. the Assault Mech. I'd place money on it ending up with the light dying/being crippled at least 50% more of the time.

Why would I dump a strike on a fresh mech? A group sure but if I'm going to use an entire strike on one mech it's one I already opened up.

Not really getting your argument. Strikes hurt light mechs more because light mechs have almost no armor compared to assaults. The strike is doing the same amount of damage to both but the assaults can absorb more of it. As far as I know light mech players are not complaining about strikes its the slower mechs who get caught in them.

Edited by Meep Meep, 04 December 2020 - 09:03 AM.

[Horseman]

R5D4, on 04 December 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

Go into private lobby with a few friends, take assaults and lights. Dump Arty/Airstrikes on them repeatedly for at least 100 rounds (keep it to the free strikes to be fair and not expensive). Count how often the light mech is killed/crippled vs. the Assault Mech. I'd place money on it ending up with the light dying/being crippled at least 50% more of the time.

The big gotcha is that lights have the maneuverability to GTFO the moment they see the strike marker. Assaults do no unless they're on the very edge of the strike zone.

[General Solo]

OZHomerOZ, on 04 December 2020 - 02:26 AM, said:

Maybe the light mech was too slow to avoid the smoke

Lanzman, on 04 December 2020 - 07:23 AM, said:

Yeah. Situational awareness is a good thing.

These types of arguments always amuse me. Stuff like this always seems to boil down to "I don't want to play an actual tactical combat game, I want an invulnerable mech with infinite firepower so that I can dump continuous alpha strikes into all who oppose me. But no-one else should have that and any weapon that can damage me needs to be nerfed."

Soz, I forgot the sarcastic tag
Your reply was exactly what I meant

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 04 December 2020 - 06:35 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Horseman, on 04 December 2020 - 12:30 PM, said:

The big gotcha is that lights have the maneuverability to GTFO the moment they see the strike marker. Assaults do no unless they're on the very edge of the strike zone.

Not if we can not see it. That is the problem. This is a free spamable damage that can be hidden from view.

[Horseman]

Darian DelFord, on 07 December 2020 - 06:38 AM, said:

Not if we can not see it. That is the problem. This is a free spamable damage that can be hidden from view.

No amount of balance changes can compensate for lack of tactical awareness, and assaults do not have much of a chance to avoid it unless they're nearly out of the strike zone in the first place.

Edited by Horseman, 07 December 2020 - 02:11 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Horseman, on 07 December 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

No amount of balance changes can compensate for lack of tactical awareness, and assaults do not have much of a chance to avoid it unless they're nearly out of the strike zone in the first place.

I agree, but they also have a much higher chance of surviving mostly intact. Lights do not. Once again your talking about an insta deploy weapon that can be used 2000+ meters out with no chance to harm the user, and can if placed OOS of a mech all but destroy a light.