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Mechwarrior Online 2021: Modes

2021 modes

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#141 Horseman

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Posted 10 December 2020 - 07:43 AM

View PostTimuroslav, on 09 December 2020 - 12:14 PM, said:

As far as faction play goes. Alot of Loyalists left when they realized it was just flat out better to be a mercenary. This resulted in a massive over supply of mercenary units. If you want people to engage as a Loyalists their incentives need to be better than mercenary incentives. Case in point Loyalists should be able to tag planets not mercenary units. Otherwise it’s like “ hey why not by a merc I can tag planets with my unit more places and use my full mech inventory”

Also keep the Faction play maps as definitive Faction play only maps, believe it or not it is a pretty decent draw to the Faction game mode. Also definitive time when Faction play ends and restarts. I’d say every 4 months or so

Nobody can tag planets right now. Not since 2019.

#142 VileKnight

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Posted 10 December 2020 - 09:26 AM

I like the idea of the VIP mode coming back, but a player gets to pilot the VIP. Include 2 possible extraction points, and that could be pretty balanced. In theory, this wouldn't be a large commitment for dev hours. It's taking the existing VIP work that was done and adding a little more, right?

Also, the vid that was posted for FP a few pages back. That's a really good proposal. Did PGI ever respond to it?

#143 BinaryFyre

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Posted 10 December 2020 - 01:39 PM

https://steamcommuni.../?id=2315683256
and
https://steamcommuni.../?id=2315683284

^^^ This is a screenshot of the issues I see with any objective based game mode in QP.
Wherein the objective score and match score are severely out weighted. This example is how you can totally complete the objective and still lose as a player.

Notice how much experience I got for single handedly taking down the base in the incursion game mode, BUT I got pretty much nada for match score because I didn't do any mech dmg.

Which basically says to any player, screw the game mode you won't advance unless you kill other mechs. If you're going to offer different game modes, the scoring should balance between completing the objective vs dmg dealt.

so there is no incentive really for players to focus on any game mode offered as the results of focusing on that equals a lower player score overall. None of the game modes explain this outright so if you get a team that wants to focus on the game mode in QP all of the players have to be ok with taking a huge dive on their PSR.

So these game modes then become PSR vs Game Mode Objective.

I don't care what the game mode is so long as the payout equals the same as killing all enemy mechs. Otherwise there is no point to play the mode at all, you might as well murder ball and just stick to that.

OR at least as a part of the game mode explanation that it calls out you have to get the kills before you try to get the game mode or in tandem. But still that leaves little incentive for a player to focus on the game objectives.

thoughts?

#144 Horseman

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Posted 10 December 2020 - 11:21 PM

View PostVileKnight, on 10 December 2020 - 09:26 AM, said:

I like the idea of the VIP mode coming back, but a player gets to pilot the VIP. Include 2 possible extraction points, and that could be pretty balanced. In theory, this wouldn't be a large commitment for dev hours. It's taking the existing VIP work that was done and adding a little more, right?

Cue pilots getting pissed because their idiot teammate took the VIP straight into enemy firing line, disconnected, went into zimbabwe instead of the evac point etc or because they were forced to play the VIP instead of their preferred personal mech.

#145 Mechaholics Anonymous

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Posted 11 December 2020 - 08:56 AM

An interesting idea for existing maps and modes would be to have multiple locations for domination and conquest placement. A few different areas of each map to fight at, forcing people to fight at unused portions of the maps. Not sure how hard it would be to program, but it could breathe new life into the same maps and modes we already have.

#146 Alreech

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Posted 11 December 2020 - 10:07 AM

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 09 December 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

A lot of tension is coming from the desire to equalize ClanTech and IS Tech.
In this regard I want to propose a separate mode where ClanTech will have it’s “real” characteristics and IS Tech won’t be meaninglessly overtweaked as it is at the moment.
The balance in tabletop is Battle Value.
The balance in MWO will be quality VS quantity. 2 stars of Clan Mechs vs 3 lances of Sphere.
It could be separate mode, it could be used in FP, it will be greatly accepted by diehard Mechwarriors that liked this game exactly for that “imbalance” before and hate MWO in the current state.
As far as I know, the matchmaker is unable to work with unequal teams, but this problem can be avoided if, for example, the matchmaker will be able to create a team with 10 players +2 dummies or AI that immediately disconnect/disappear/disintegrate.
The current “balance” is just an ugly mess of limitations from the one side and tweaks from another. It’s an unhealthy situation...I don’t want to be a part of it and will be more than satisfied playing this separate mode.

Equal Clan & IS Tech in MWO?

Clan Endo Steel & Ferror Fibrous need on 7 Slots, not 14.
Clan XL Engines need only 2 slots in each side torso, IS XL Engines need 3 slots and are destroyed if the side torso is destroyed.
Clan Double Heat Sinks need only 2 Slots and can be mounted in the Legs & Center Torso.
Clan CASE is free in each limb, IS CASE costs 1 Slot and 0,5 tons and can only be mounted in the Side Torso - and it's useless with XL Engines.
Clan Missles & AC need less tons & slots than their IS counter parts.
...

Most of the "tensions between clan & is in MWO" came from the fact that MWO uses the same stupid rules as the tabletop to get the same stupid imbalance the table top had between 1990 - 1996 (introduction of Clan Tech - introduction of the Battle Value system).
And the Battletech tabletop was a quick shoot from FASA, the rules never revisited because FASA was to busy counting the money from Shadowrun.

But to be honest, the problem doesn't exist in quickplay because the "random teams" are mixed without regarding the tech.
And i don't think that this "tension" or the lack of "2 Stars vs 3 Lances" is the cause why faction play isn't more popular.

#147 Bowelhacker

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Posted 11 December 2020 - 05:12 PM

View PostHorseman, on 10 December 2020 - 07:43 AM, said:

Nobody can tag planets right now. Not since 2019.


PGI really needs to update those little tip things they have on loading screens...

#148 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 12 December 2020 - 01:36 AM

View PostAlreech, on 11 December 2020 - 10:07 AM, said:

Equal Clan & IS Tech in MWO?

Clan Endo Steel & Ferror Fibrous need on 7 Slots, not 14.
Clan XL Engines need only 2 slots in each side torso, IS XL Engines need 3 slots and are destroyed if the side torso is destroyed.
Clan Double Heat Sinks need only 2 Slots and can be mounted in the Legs & Center Torso.
Clan CASE is free in each limb, IS CASE costs 1 Slot and 0,5 tons and can only be mounted in the Side Torso - and it's useless with XL Engines.
Clan Missles & AC need less tons & slots than their IS counter parts.
...

Most of the "tensions between clan & is in MWO" came from the fact that MWO uses the same stupid rules as the tabletop to get the same stupid imbalance the table top had between 1990 - 1996 (introduction of Clan Tech - introduction of the Battle Value system).
And the Battletech tabletop was a quick shoot from FASA, the rules never revisited because FASA was to busy counting the money from Shadowrun.

But to be honest, the problem doesn't exist in quickplay because the "random teams" are mixed without regarding the tech.
And i don't think that this "tension" or the lack of "2 Stars vs 3 Lances" is the cause why faction play isn't more popular.


im Thinking thats Timelines for thats better ...3025 for News, and with enough Experience its come to the 3055 or 3058 Timeline like other games (War thunder) and with more and more difficult Gamemodes like FP

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 12 December 2020 - 11:33 PM.


#149 Alreech

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Posted 12 December 2020 - 05:18 AM

View PostMW Waldorf Statler, on 12 December 2020 - 01:36 AM, said:


im Thinking thats Timelines for thats better ...3025 for News, and with enough Experience its come to the 3025 or 3058 Timeline like other games (War thunder) and with more and more difficult Gamemodes like FP

To make that work the match maker would have to put players with 3025 tech into a different queue, and I don't think that MWO has enough players to support an other queue,.
I also don't belive that new players would be better off with 3025 tech if they are put as solo players into a 12 vs 12 match with 3025 tech only.
The best way to help new players is mentoring by other players. That's best done in premade groups talking via VOIP. Not only the new player can ask questions and gets advice, he also has some allies to watch his back.
Letting the new players entering a 12 vs 12 game without back up isn't far from pushing them into a pool of sharks.

I also don't think that the Gamemodes of MWO are difficult.
Even "Invasion" in faction play isn't much more difficult than "Rush" in Battlefield or "Assault" in Unreal Tournament.
It's more difficult than the team deathmatch in Solo Quickplay and it needs coordinated teams, and PGI seems not to be interested to improve team coordination in MWO.

Edited by Alreech, 12 December 2020 - 05:19 AM.


#150 Horseman

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Posted 12 December 2020 - 04:18 PM

View PostMW Waldorf Statler, on 12 December 2020 - 01:36 AM, said:

im Thinking thats Timelines for thats better ...3025 for News, and with enough Experience its come to the 3025 or 3058 Timeline like other games (War thunder) and with more and more difficult Gamemodes like FP
You're talking more buckets. We've gone over that too many times to count, TL;DR: More buckets = BAD.

#151 Myfriendscallmecoach

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Posted 12 December 2020 - 09:27 PM

The Goal: Introduce interesting game modes that give players Primary and Secondary objectives that promotes better use of the current maps in rotation.

  • Key Reconnaissance
Primary-Terminals:
6 Terminals on the map with 1 in each teams drop zone and 4 set in the middle of the map diagonally. Teams are set up in opposite corners of the map with the 4 objectives parallel to the teams drop zones.
Objectives can be taken and help indefinitely unless flipped by the enemy team. Each objective will collect a set amount of resources or data similar to a current mission type. Teams must control 2 or more objectives to start collecting data. Objectives cannot be controlled until a set number of minutes have passed in game.

Secondary Objectives

Data Interruption:
One mech from your team can attempt to interrupt data collection while within control range of any objective and while there are no enemy mechs contesting that objective. After the set time has passed, the interruption is complete and the mech preforming the action is still within control range, each member of the team will get a Cbill bonus multiplied by the number of current controlled terminals.
  • Desiccated Land
Primary- 6 objectives placed on the map with 2 in each teams drop zone and 2 in the center of the map located on either side. Objectives can be taken and help indefinitely unless flipped by the enemy team. Each objective will collect a set amount of resources or data similar to a current mission type. Objectives cannot be controlled until a set number of minutes have passed in game.

Secondary Objectives

Decommission:
One player on your team may attempt to decommission an objective located in the enemy's drop zone as long as they are within capture range and there are no enemy's contesting that objective. Once an objective has been decommissioned, it can no longer be captured by either team and stops collecting resources. For every enemy objective decommissioned, you team is given a Cbill bonus at the end of the match.

#152 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 12 December 2020 - 10:16 PM

The name of the game is shooting other robots, so your dream mode better use respawns if you expect objectives to ever be a fun and valid way to win the game. No respawn secondary objectives should always be to force engagements (think conquest capture point pressure) and discourage camping (conquest generally does a good job of that here as well).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 December 2020 - 10:21 PM.


#153 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 12 December 2020 - 11:39 PM

with the bucket in moment and loosing of 70% off all Players over the Years , nothing can bring Back the Game to the Status before 2014...The most ideas praying from the Start of the game and PGI ignored it since 7 Years .
The Game now Dead in each Way...no Technical Crew,No Devs (or better a new Shareholder Company as Boss),no big Community (Im seeing the German Forum near Dead with his Idea tread since 6 Years)
...the most units dead and away ,to less Units for great Helping Effect for new Players,and the most of the new Players no interest of great help or Learning ...its more like mobile games ...come in ...testing...no great Fun ...next game...Why have Games like Raid:Shadow Legends so great communitys?!

we all reading over a Dead Horse

Come each Word of Feedback from PGI or Russ ?all the Podcasts only hollow Words in the Wind since 3 Years ...we thinking, thats interesting...we will seeing....in the Future....we will

come a Word back Russ with a Really Plan or strict way ? thanks Players..Dearon give me first ideas for a interesting future ?or Bombadil and his Team only Placeholder and Numbergirls in the Time to the next act

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 13 December 2020 - 12:07 AM.


#154 Alreech

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Posted 13 December 2020 - 12:35 AM

View PostMW Waldorf Statler, on 12 December 2020 - 11:39 PM, said:

with the bucket in moment and loosing of 70% off all Players over the Years , nothing can bring Back the Game to the Status before 2014...


Hordes of new players will flock MWO if MW5 is released on the new X-Box! Posted Image
Because many of those will have also a gaming PC and will download MWO and spend money on Mechpacks..., right?

To be honest, a MWO relaunch based on Mechwarrior 5 would be IMHO the best option to keep the franchise alive.

#155 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 13 December 2020 - 01:01 AM

View PostAlreech, on 13 December 2020 - 12:35 AM, said:


Hordes of new players will flock MWO if MW5 is released on the new X-Box! Posted Image
Because many of those will have also a gaming PC and will download MWO and spend money on Mechpacks..., right?

To be honest, a MWO relaunch based on Mechwarrior 5 would be IMHO the best option to keep the franchise alive.


Im Thinking is a long Way to Xbox Lauch , we will you bring the complex Control to a console and a Controller ? and than Crossplay and the war PC players with M/K vs Console Players with Controllers ?

And mW% not really a game thats make long Fun ...after 50 Missions (with mods) im lost my Interest ,to steril , to generic, to uninteresting to absolve Mission after mission with the same waves and Dump Teammates and unfunny Missions (hate the Base-secure Missions in each way) ,only Mods help me thats im try a new start with the Game

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 13 December 2020 - 01:05 AM.


#156 ImperialKnight

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Posted 13 December 2020 - 02:21 AM

Remove Skirmish as a game mode completely. It serves no purpose other than have people playing hide-and-seek with a shutdown light mech some where and wasting everyone's time. Assault does everything Skirmish does.

You can have multiple Assault spawn points using the Skirmish spawns.

#157 Rioting Baboon

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Posted 13 December 2020 - 07:00 PM

Hello folks. I figured I'd chime in because my enjoyment for this game has been diminished somewhat and I'm seriously considering not playing anymore. But that's not why I'm here.

It's quite refreshing that you are taking input from players and I thought I'd give you some of my own input as well. I've seen players express similar sentiments to how I feel about this game and as such, I would like to throw in with them. That said, let me begin by describing what I think is the status quo.
  • Rewards for certain behavior - Right now, damage is highly rewarded. Almost to the detriment of the rewards garnered from actual teamwork or playing the objective
  • Game Modes - Right now, it feels like no matter which mode we pick, it's just skirmish or "skirmish with extra steps." There's barely any point to playing the objectives.
I have other sentiments but that can wait. These are the two items that are top of mind and I would like to expound and perhaps give more suggestions. Both points also are somewhat correlated to each other in that they are based off player behavior more than anything else.

Point number 1.
MWO was touted as the "Thinking Man's Shooter" back in 2012 and I can't help but feel like it has fallen terribly short of this mark.

So, the question is this: Which behavior do you want to see more of? Do you want to see players working as a team and using different team tactics and strategies? Or, do you want your players chasing high scores and personal bests?

Even if, and perhaps more especially if your answer is both, then I think we need to place better emphasis or weight on rewarding behaviors that benefit the team as a whole more than an individual on that team. A heavy emphasis on damage, as is the current status quo, emphasizes personal metrics more than team-based metrics. This in turn reinforces the behavior to pursue being top damage dealer to the point where nothing else (teammates, victory, objective) matters more than that.

example:
A player can break off from the fight in conquest mode in order to capture points and ensure victory for their team, but this also means they will sacrifice their overall score and likely lose points in their PSR standing.

This makes it less likely for a player to want to do this because it means taking a hit in score.

Often, you will hear or see a player say/type "At least I got top damage." after a loss. This is basically a declaration that says that victory/teamwork is irrelevant as long as I get top damage.

Point number 2.
This ties in heavily with my first point. With a very heavy emphasis on damage dealing, the need to play the objective becomes irrelevant. Compound this with incredibly stale game modes and boring maps, one can see why MWO has become reduced to; as one player succinctly put it: "Skirmish and skirmish with extra steps."

Example:
Incursion and Assault are basically the same game mode. It's like Incursion is "Assault 2.0 now with larger bases!" Both involve capturing/destroying the enemy base but what happens more often is that teams will meet somewhere on the map and destroy each other first. Assault ends when all opposing mechs are destroyed while Incursion has the added requirement of needing to do damage to the opposing base before triggering the mission end. Occasionally one team will rush the objective and force a win, rendering an easy victory but low score for such behavior so there really isn't much of a threat of this happening.

The point is that beyond the destruction of the entire enemy team any added objectives to the current play modes are hollow except in Faction Play, and that just barely.

I suggest the following:
If you want players to behave a certain way, reward it heavily. If you want teams to stick with their lance mates and stay in formation as much as possible, then give 'lance in formation' a higher score. If you want players to work as a team, give 'protected light/medium/heavy/etc.' a higher score. Give assists a higher score. Actually reward players for working as a team higher than working as individuals dealing damage.

Maybe even give a lower/higher overall score based on the number of mechs left on the team when the match ends. (this is extreme but would be interesting to see)
Then maybe we'll see players that are more willing to work with the rest of the team they dropped with in quickplay and even faction play. Maybe we'll see more interesting team tactics, more diverse mech builds, and even wider use of the current maps vs being confined to the usual hot areas and nascar conducive landmarks.

#158 Void Angel

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Posted 13 December 2020 - 07:07 PM

I think there should be a way to get a small, set income of MC through various game modes. For example, you might set up a weekly reward for playing 3-4 matches of Solaris, or Faction Play. This would give players incentive to experience these game modes - and, perhaps more importantly, increase the availability of player telemetry to help balance and improve those modes.

#159 Supergod Masterforce Dirty Dan

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Posted 13 December 2020 - 08:00 PM

View Postil1il, on 17 November 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

QP modes seem to be a preference. I prefer domination > skirmish > assault > incursion > conquest
while some people dislike skirmish a lot.

Skirmish - is team death match. the only argument against it is when people hide at the end... cure that and win their opinion.

Domination - seems to need the heat turned up on it. its not that people dislike domination but they find it stale. have the circle shrink or tick based on the number of players in the area. (with increased clock)

Assault - is skirmish with an addition of a cap the base win mechanic that leaves every one dissatisfied if people use it. I would remove it and replace it with capture the flag.

incursion - is a version of assault that most people don't fully understand.... its not intuitive.

Conquest - does not work well with an uncoordinated team. if you are capping points you are missing a chance for rating so people treat it like skirmish mostly.... That is if they aren't running around like a chicken with its head off. you don't even need to delete conquest remove the cash bonus and you will see how popular it really is.

QP - its self seems to be suffering from "soup" group mixed with solo players and the heavy sorting for average damage found in match score. Most of the problems could be solved by invisible sorting by average win/loss. Damage is a horrible incentive to give players it corrupts the incentives of players away from team work. and selfless strats into damage hogging and hiding.

Faction - is low pop because solo player don't want to enter Q and wait for 45 mins while 3 games pass them by because groups took their spot. so they go to quick play and get a quick game. if there were no QP faction would have less problems but solo players are at a major disadvantage especially new ones.

Solaris - is not populated, why? You have to buy mechs to set them up for duels in a game balanced by team play. and counters. When you step into your first match you will probably face one of the best players in the game.
if the game had different access to mechs maybe it would be more popular but it seems that like faction the long waits further discourage people from the mode. What would I do to salvage it? Probably I would have it pop up as a random challenge occasionally after a QP / faction n your current mech to win something cool. like an engine or a bolt on for your current mech. or a token (partial credit toward). Then people would have a reason to practice IN their regular mechs.


I love the idea of "A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES!" in quick play. Give the option to challenge a player who killed you in QP/Faction in solaris after the match, and the winner gets a neat prize that isn't another lame SRM2. Hell even having a unified que with quick play, faction and solaris would be awesome! You could have little checkbox options to disable certain modes if you weren't feeling it. I just want to play the game not sit in a que for an hour. If me and my buddy are rocking centurions in a group we should be able to be thrown into 2v2 solaris, quickplay or factions no time flat.

Perhaps if there are not enough players to create a faction game, people in the faction que could be thrown into solaris while waiting?

#160 NocturnalBeast

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Posted 14 December 2020 - 01:32 AM

3025 Stock mode:

- True stock mode, no modifications at all to build, but can modify all cosmetics.

- Only Mechs / Variants that were available in the IS at the time and no advanced tech, so no Star League Mechs (e.g. Nightstar, Champion).

- No modifications would make different variants actually meaningful.

Edited by Ed Steele, 14 December 2020 - 01:33 AM.






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