193 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

il1il, on 17 November 2020 - 01:04 AM, said:

At first I did not understand the purpose of trial mechs other than as advertisement. that a player would not choose to use over bought mechs.. but basically you start the game with nothing and now I look back proud of all of my mechs as accomplishments in my MWO play...
If I was going to make a criticism about "champions" it is that the bonus XP is not a sufficient reason to buy them. To make them worth while they should offer bonus GXP which would put them on par with heros on the desirability scale.
However this is not a new player issue. But one of marketing.

well pgi does want to sell mech packs. but the problem is if players quit before they even get started, then they are no longer potential customers. it also keeps the population from growing, and those that still play the game and sometimes buy stuff have longer wait times, worse match making, etc and can potentially leave out of boredom.

instead if you give players a bunch of free stuff to start out with, it opens all the doors for them. you can play fp, solaris, level your mechs, equip them to your liking, and generally have fun. then when sales roll around some of them will potentially buy stuff. there are north of 800 mechs in the game so plenty of opportunities to sell them stuff, who cares if you give them 8.

after that you get the typical brutal grind of any f2p. i think there should be an initial buy in bonus that cuts the grind in half for anyone who buys their first mech pack. buying additional $$$ mechs need to come with further grind reductions.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 November 2020 - 01:27 AM.

[il1il]

You seem to agree with me now LordNothing, Yes that is my thinking.
Only I would say if you want people to buy mech bays you probably want them to fill them up fast. Which means cbills.
i previously noticed that cbills are too common with vets and too scarce with new players.
I would consider "reducing" cbills overall. but give a "bonus" for people under 20million to encourage spending and not simply add To the 2billion cbill piles many people have... While also adding cbill sincs. Let them buy something really expensive to get rid of them, preferably vanity items.
Also I would remove the cbill cost of skills they are only acting as a sinc to new players who don't have piles of cash. Which is the opposite of the purpose of a sinc.

[Fae Puka]

Review the trial mechs and offer something that is actually viable in game, so something along the "champion" line of loadouts - something that works from experience. Increase trial mech rotation.

Allow skill points to be collected for trial mechs and allow them to be used. These can then be carried over to any purchased chassis. Don't allow the trial mechs to be customised though (one reason for them to be reviewed). Skill points make a huge difference in playing potential, however, a limit could be set to 70 points to prevent the trial mechs being the go to, rather than the learn from.

[IanDresarie]

For now I'll just repost our suggestion for a New Player Experience.

I do think a guided tour through the main UI is absolutely necessary as to not overwhelm new people.

[DeadWeight18]

LordNothing, on 17 November 2020 - 12:58 AM, said:

[snip]
maybe we need to make it so you can grind the faction trees in qp. when fp started it was kind of a bribe to get people to play. with fp games being so hard to get we need alternate ways to grind those. perhaps through some kind of qp-fp interaction.

Faction trees could be general achievements linked to play with Faction associated mechs, e.g. play an Atlas and get bonus with House Steiner.

[DeadWeight18]

il1il, on 17 November 2020 - 01:13 AM, said:

[snip]
like I understand that a marketer is making a decision based on a different set of variables but for a consumer to say this.....

This is a give and take. If you don't want to invest in a game you can't expect to get much. MWO can't like from advertisement ... though how about show ads during the waiting screen before a match

[Horseman]

Daeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:13 PM, said:

Change Starting Tier (to 4.5)

You could insert additional PSR to their ratings with the Cadet bonus (=if they do average, at the end of Cadet they will be in T 3.5)

Quote

Update Trial 'Mechs (regularly with appropriate consultation)

• Most of the trial mechs there currently are will have to be replaced completely. They were built for a very different gameplay balance than what we have right now. I propose retiring the (C) series entirely and introducing new ones as a (T) series.
  
• The trial mechs will need at least partial Skill Tree benefits (imagine a trial mech with ECM, without the ECM skill nodes it's basically useless).
  
• While the peanut gallery (everyone else, myself included) may have some meaningful feedback, having an authoritative team with experience and understanding of the actual meta in charge of the final decision (eg: high grade comp players, the Grimmechs team if you can persuade them) would be vastly preferable.

Quote

Update Wiki / Add Wiki Contributors

And make the Wiki actually prominent, because right now most of the playerbase isn't even aware it exists.

il1il, on 17 November 2020 - 12:30 AM, said:

I disliked the trial mechs at the start but the real problem was I did not even have one line up for faction.

Which possibly means there should be a trial drop deck available (one per faction), in line with the new trials.

Edited by Horseman, 17 November 2020 - 09:42 AM.

[MarsThunder]

And forbid assault mechs for new players, please.

[Deathshade]

Daeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:13 PM, said:

In this thread, lets discuss ideas for updating, adding to, and improving our new player experience in MechWarrior Online, such as:

• Change Starting Tier (to 4.5)
  
• Update Trial 'Mechs (regularly with appropriate consultation)
  
• Increase Cadet Bonus
  
• Update In-game Tutorial
  
• Establish New Player Video Tutorials (official and community)
  
• MWO Discord Channel (update MW5 Discord to MWO/MW5)
  
• Update Wiki / Add Wiki Contributors

We have had these before and they didn't help with new players. You really need something in the Players face for the first time they login and it shouldn't be AI or a Popup. It should be a community leader (with voice or chat lobby?) or another unit looking for new players to help train.

You know this came requires lots of hand holding and you are letting the new players down again with this list:

• Change Starting Tier (to 4.5) : great way to point out that this player is new so the salt can make fun of them. #firstnegateexperience
  
• Update Trial 'Mechs (regularly with appropriate consultation) -- How are the new players going to even know to use them? We need a human
  
• Increase Cadet Bonus - Rewards should be doubled across the board for everyone imo but this little bonus should give them a couple of points on the skill tree or maybe a flea down payment.
  
• Update In-game Tutorial -- This is a money pit. I hate to tell you. A whole lot of work that no one uses. I predict most of the new players experience hours for work will go here. What does the player do if they have issues or questions? one again replace a human with AI ftw
  
• Establish New Player Video Tutorials (official and community) -- This is already being done. What does the player do if they have issues or questions? one again replace a human with links. Go here and read or listen.
  
• MWO Discord Channel (update MW5 Discord to MWO/MW5) - Great. Another app to install JUST to play the game. Why can't you have the same functionality in-game? All the tools are there to do it. Discord can be chaotic. Who is there to moderate and make sure that new player knows that he/she isn't reading random chit.
  
• Update Wiki / Add Wiki Contributors -- What does the player do if they have issues or questions? Oh. now we add a human but they aren't helping the player, they are helping the Wiki. gg

Edit: readability

Edited by Deathshade, 17 November 2020 - 07:20 AM.

[Deathshade]

IanDresarie, on 17 November 2020 - 03:06 AM, said:

For now I'll just repost our suggestion for a New Player Experience.

I do think a guided tour through the main UI is absolutely necessary as to not overwhelm new people.

This is a great example of why we really need a human. This lets the players know that he/she has a mountain of stuff to learn already. Day one. Odds are this is where you lose your first players that have zero knowledge of the game.

Edited by Deathshade, 17 November 2020 - 07:14 AM.

[Deathshade]

LordNothing, on 17 November 2020 - 01:23 AM, said:

well pgi does want to sell mech packs. but the problem is if players quit before they even get started, then they are no longer potential customers. it also keeps the population from growing, and those that still play the game and sometimes buy stuff have longer wait times, worse match making, etc and can potentially leave out of boredom.

instead if you give players a bunch of free stuff to start out with, it opens all the doors for them. you can play fp, solaris, level your mechs, equip them to your liking, and generally have fun. then when sales roll around some of them will potentially buy stuff. there are north of 800 mechs in the game so plenty of opportunities to sell them stuff, who cares if you give them 8.

after that you get the typical brutal grind of any f2p. i think there should be an initial buy in bonus that cuts the grind in half for anyone who buys their first mech pack. buying additional $$$ mechs need to come with further grind reductions.

Exactly! You have hit the nail on the head for any potential comp players coming to the game. We really need unit leaders that are looking for good players to help them get there. I saw this happen over and over in other MW titles. It wasn't AI that was doing it either. obviously.

[Cluster Fox]

Daeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:13 PM, said:

Such as:

• Change Starting Tier (to 4.5)

YES. Give new players easier games for sure. Please do it ASAP.

The more this waits, the more potential new players you may loose. People are starting to re-isolate, Christmas is coming and Cyberpunk isn't out yet. Now is the time.

Note that if a stable MM/PSR is implemented, starting tier will only matter for the initial experience. 4.5 is fine.

Other PSR / MM recommendation and comparison here (I'm sure you're aware):
https://mwomercs.com...psr-comparison/
Note that this also requires secondary balance (balancing teams once the match is built)
This also cover's many user's suggestions of making the Cadet bonus PSR weight more (seeding).

Edited by Cluster Fox, 17 November 2020 - 09:27 AM.

[Horseman]

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

MWO Discord Channel (update MW5 Discord to MWO/MW5) - Great. Another app to install JUST to play the game. Why can't you have the same functionality in-game? All the tools are there to do it. Discord can be chaotic. Who is there to moderate and make sure that new player knows that he/she isn't reading random chit.

Discord can run in a web browser too.

[Deathshade]

Horseman, on 17 November 2020 - 09:43 AM, said:

Discord can run in a web browser too.

Discord is a great app, don't get me wrong. A far as new player experience goes, the simpler the better.
With the current list we have Youtube, web browser for the MWO site/Wiki, Discord and the MWO client. Now add the learning curve for MW and how many players would you lose?

MWO has the ability to match what Discord does within the client. So why not do it? MWO has lost the community interaction because there isn't really a good interface for supporting other players within the client. What percentage of MWO based Discord servers have players that ACTUALLY play the game? We want to mechwarrior not chat warrior.

[Reno Blade]

• Change Starting Tier (to 4.5)
  
  
  -> Definitely priority 1 for new players
  maybe even have a modificator: Trial or non-skilled mechs get -0.5 Tiers vs skilled mechs
  
• Update Trial 'Mechs (regularly with appropriate consultation)
  
  -> always good to have new trials. quite ok in some cases, but without knowledge having a "shield side" is useless to a new player
  
• Increase Cadet Bonus
  
  -> Maybe give 1 mech of each class over the course of the cadet time. so you get some starting mechs on top of the trials.
  Increase Mech’s first-game-victory bonus to first-4 going down from +200%, +150%, +100%, +50
  
• Update In-game Tutorial
  
  -> having popups showing you what is what, or even displaying the content of the wiki page if you mouse-over would be awesome
  
• Establish New Player Video Tutorials (official and community)
  
  -> have wiki pages list already existing videos, streamers and so on as a start, then work on the important things that is outdated/missing
  
• MWO Discord Channel (update MW5 Discord to MWO/MW5)
  
  -> ok
  
• Update Wiki / Add Wiki Contributors
  
  -> see video tutorials and ingame tutorial tooltips above

Edited by Reno Blade, 17 November 2020 - 11:49 AM.

[Alreech]

MWO Discord Channel (update MW5 Discord to MWO/MW5)
An other Discord Channel - even it's the "official Mechwarrior Discord" - is just an other external lobby to find a group.

That's the benefit of an other external lobby to find a group if MWO has a "Looking for Group" Lobby?
That's the benefit of an external VOIP Channel if MWO has build in Team Speak what can be used for Voice Com in group screen?

IMHO:

• Evaluate why the LFG is not used more
  
• Improve the LFG (make groups visible, show preferd language, ect...)
  
• Create a Teamspeak Channel with the group to make external VOIP solutions obsolete

[Galahad2030]

Alreech, on 17 November 2020 - 01:16 PM, said:

MWO Discord Channel (update MW5 Discord to MWO/MW5)
An other Discord Channel - even it's the "official Mechwarrior Discord" - is just an other external lobby to find a group.

That's the benefit of an other external lobby to find a group if MWO has a "Looking for Group" Lobby?
That's the benefit of an external VOIP Channel if MWO has build in Team Speak what can be used for Voice Com in group screen?

IMHO:

• Evaluate why the LFG is not used more
  
• Improve the LFG (make groups visible, show preferd language, ect...)
  
• Create a Teamspeak Channel with the group to make external VOIP solutions obsolete

Make LFG show ALL groups unless marked private when created.

The appearance of a blank page when you LFG gives players, especially new players, the impression there are no groups.
Perception is 90% of an interface. If I can't intuitively navigate functions, or it appears to be broken or nonexistent, I most likely will not try to make it work any further. This is a game interface. Players have developed certain expectations and perceived functionality when they click a button.

[Marx Headroom]

MarsThunder, on 17 November 2020 - 07:00 AM, said:

And forbid assault mechs for new players, please.

Nah. People are going to be bad with Assaults until they get good with them. Losing isn't fun and driving a big scary Atlas into a meatgrinder then staring at the screen for the rest of the match is fun maybe a handful of times. You don't need to make people prove their piloting ability or whatever to push them to get better with mechs they enjoy. People like to win and when they keep losing they (with few exceptions) tend to look for ways to start winning. Let that happen and it'll be a more rewarding experience for them in the end.

[thievingmagpi]

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

• Change Starting Tier (to 4.5) : great way to point out that this player is new so the salt can make fun of them. #firstnegateexperience

Let me get this straight... You're worried that new players will feel ashamed for starting out in a low seeded bracket?

Lmao.

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

• Update Trial 'Mechs (regularly with appropriate consultation) -- How are the new players going to even know to use them? We need a human

Better starting mechs that are actually useable in QP and can help to teach important concepts without being hamstrung by how poorly they're built will help new players

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

Establish New Player Video Tutorials (official and community) -- This is already being done. What does the player do if they have issues or questions? one again replace a human with links. Go here and read or listen.

Ah yes, 24/7 live MWO support team.

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

• MWO Discord Channel (update MW5 Discord to MWO/MW5) - Great. Another app to install JUST to play the game.

What's that? An actual official live channel for MWO discussion?? Weren't you just complaining....

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

• Whycan't you have the same functionality in-game? All the tools are there to do it

What "tools" does MWO have to *do it* with?

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

Discord can be chaotic.

Maybe if you haven't used a computer in the last 25 years.

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

Who is there to moderate and make sure that new player knows that he/she isn't reading random chit.

The moderators.

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

Update Wiki / Add Wiki Contributors -- What does the player do if they have issues or questions?

Discord.

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:

Oh. now we add a human but they aren't helping the player, they are helping the Wiki. gg
Edit: readability

There are humans on discord.

What are you expecting? You press the ~ key in game or say "Hello Mechcommander" and you can just open voice chat with some AI on the other end? "Hello mechcommander, what is ghost heat?" Like you're asking Googlehome to order more toilet paper?

Edited by thievingmagpi, 17 November 2020 - 02:12 PM.

[thievingmagpi]

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:

Nice knee jerk reactions. You are just pointing out the way things have been. How has that been working on keeping new players?

Discord exists and works fine. Lots of new players use it.

But that has nothing to do with the terrible New Player Experience- something that won't be solved by some magical Siri mech assistant.

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:

And yes, I have seen lots of players get made fun of in Faction Play as they point out they are new.

New players do not belong in faction play. That's pretty simple. There are even warnings in game about it. Not allowing trial mechs in FP would be a great step to improving.

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:

Speaking of new. How long have you been playing the game of MW? Any MW games before this one? I didn't think so.

100% irrelevant.

Deathshade, on 17 November 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:

Just a little history. The MW games before this one had thriving communities and robust units that did most of what I have listed. Ask any of the other old guys around. They will tell you the way things used to be before the MM killed the community.

Got a little tip for you in case you haven't realized.

Mechwarrior 2 isn't MWO

Mechwarrior 3 isn't MWO

Mechwarrior 4 isn't MWO

Mechassault isn't MWO

Mektek isn't MWO

Living Legends isn't MWO

Tabletop isn't MWO

Anything else?