50 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

Der Geisterbaer, on 25 November 2020 - 07:31 AM, said:

I just cannot take such a suggestion more serious

Good for you because it was troll suggestion.
PS. I thought it was easy recognize as troll, not serious.

[The6thMessenger]

Vyx, on 25 November 2020 - 10:39 AM, said:

You mention in your thesis that "There's a lot more things going on here to just dilute it to just-effective-range" ... and my point is the designers of the original game (as well as the designers of MWO), set LMG, MG, and HMG effective ranges very low. Why? I can posit that it may be because these type of low-energy, non-heat-generating weapons generally suffer from vastly lower destructive power vs armor as the range increases. Would you not agree?

Why? I don't know, balance? A 0.5 and 0.25 ton weapon could probably be OP if it exceeds AC2 ranges especially when it already does the same damage. We have machine guns that are literally effective to infantries beyond said ranges. Even Tank Guns are more effective at longer ranges when they are supposed to be ACs effective at a different range.

I literally pointed it out in my very first point that bullets lose energy over a distance, that is why the closer they are, the more energy they have. And so "effective range" is where weapons remain effective.

These "low energy" is relative, 12.7mm, 20mm, 25mm, these are still lower energy than say 30mm, 40mm, 57mm, 66mm, 90mm, 105mm, 120mm, 155mm, 205mm.

Low effective range does not necessarily mean it's Small-Arms fire, it depends on ammunition and gun. It wouldn't make conventional sense to have a 20mm shell with a lower powder-charge fired through a shorter barrel, to have same effective range as the same 20mm shell fired at a longer barrel with more powder charge.

Likewise what is Effective is debatable, as spread is also a factor to what we currently deem "effective", so if BT has different "effective" than ours, so you can't just use Effective Range, It's ******* dumb.

Since BT MGs could hurt both Infantry and Mechs, it makes better sense to use ammunition in our reality that is also effective at Materiel. A 7.62mm NATO can punch through personal plated armor, but you need a 50-Cal to deal with LAVs such as Humvees. 20mm like M61 Vulcan on VADS has been used, and M242 25mm Bushmaster Chaingun in the bradley.

Lore said ACs uses between 30mm and 205mm, so that gives us a leeway of 12.7mm to 25mm.

Vyx, on 25 November 2020 - 10:39 AM, said:

Believe what you like. I am trying to look at it from a balance/modeling standpoint. Increasing the effectiveness of MGs of any size would be devastating to the balance of the game. We've seen this when they introduced MG/Flamer changes during the release of the Piranha. Few would refute this.

It was a mistake then and it would be a mistake now to up the ante again as you describe in your original post.

Calibers fired are just fluff. You could label them as 22-LRs for all anyone cares, and have it deal damage to mechs anyways, because again balance.

Balancewise, it's debatable. But your ******** idea of calibers by effective range is just that, ********. Especially when we have lore to work with.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 November 2020 - 03:16 PM.

[D A T A]

mgs are stronger here than in any other mechwarrior title

[The6thMessenger]

D A T A, on 25 November 2020 - 03:15 PM, said:

mgs are stronger here than in any other mechwarrior title

Dude, DPS in MW5 rivals even AC20's DPS.

[D A T A]

this is an online game, things need to be balanced, current mgs are fine, you cant pretend to run6-8 mgs and destroy everything

Edited by D A T A, 25 November 2020 - 04:08 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

D A T A, on 25 November 2020 - 04:08 PM, said:

this is an online game, things need to be balanced, current mgs are fine, you cant pretend to run6-8 mgs and destroy everything

D A T A, on 25 November 2020 - 03:15 PM, said:

mgs are stronger here than in any other mechwarrior title

That is not to say I'm justifying MGs as strong as AC20.

I do however am pointing out that one way to make MGs more useful is more range, likewise MG Arrays to not make MGs exclusively only effective to MG Boats.

[General Solo]

They had Light machine guns that were decent at range for a machine gun
But people complained on the forums
And it got nerfed instead of fixing matchmaking, Same ole

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 25 November 2020 - 10:35 PM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Curccu said:

Good for you because it was troll suggestion.

Consider the idea that your "troll" response received a (somewhat) serious answer because
a ) people - including the OP - actually suggested this or at least similar things in the past and
b ) the ridiculousness of your "troll" comment is still in the same league as the ridiculousness of the attempted "real world" weapons comparison

Curccu said:

PS. I thought it was easy recognize as troll, not serious.

Whether or not you think your comment is truly easy to recognize as a "troll" comment actually has little effect on people

- falling for said "troll" by taking it serious
- responding in kind with another "troll" comment
- turning it into the basis of a more serious comment that actually is/was not necessarily aimed at you

That third option obviously was not that easy to spot

[D A T A]

Again, they don't need more range, thay are already more powerful than all previous MW games, and because of that they already have their role

[LordNothing]

dont think of mg arrays as machine guns. they should be new weapons that are harder hitting less accurate (and less crit seeking as a result) ammo hogs with some heat and mean ghost heat. game needs ballistics in the 1-5 ton range anyway. unless you want to do lac, pac, medium rifle, etc. other than that the machine guns we have are fine as is (wish the hmgs had some buffs though).

Edited by LordNothing, 26 November 2020 - 03:46 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

D A T A, on 26 November 2020 - 03:32 AM, said:

Again, they don't need more range, thay are already more powerful than all previous MW games, and because of that they already have their role

Lol no. MW4 and MW5 had more powerful MGs.

Then again performance of MGs relative to different titles is irrelevant. Not like I'm playing MWO while other play MW4, that's just absurd reasoning.

Hows about consider their performance here? As in MGs are only relevant on MG boats.