so first off, ask any good lite pilot what his favorite target is. ok now that the truth about that is clear let's move on.
I would just like to point out some of my observations , I dont have the stats or proof, though many people before me have posted these things many times , Im sure with a little effort you can either prove me right or wrong, ,,,,,,,,,GO FOR IT
I did spend the vast majority of my early play as a lite pilot, my favorite mech is still the Commando TDK, but as time goes you need a change and I was drawn to play the mechs i so often hunted.
so let's have it
LRM 5s are better, in all ways IS and Clan
if you have a choice of 3 LRM 5s or 1 LRM 15, use the 5s and save the weight from not using Artemis. They will recycle faster run cooler and hit better, and you have a choice of Alpha or chain fire.
2 LRM 5s without Artemis do more damage than an LRM 10 with Artemis
Artemis may help LRM 5s , but i have never seen it in a practical sense, it seems to do nothing at all, in any case the weight saved far outweighs any benefit it may give.
I feel there is no Reason to use Artemis with LRM 5s.
Artemis does improve LRM 10s and up and i would recommend it if your space and tonnage allows, i can see many reasons for not using it but I would still try as best you can to use it.
one reason i feel for NOT using Artemis on 10s and up is the odd fact that when firing on lite mechs you can actually do more splash damage, therefore having a better chance of doing leg damage on them, as we all know the lites have their own ability to avoid damage.
The real reason for using LRM 10s and up, is simple, more is better, thought LRM 5s are better,
1 LRM 10 is still better than 1 LRM 5 but if you have a choice of 1 LRM10 or 2 LRM5s go for the 5s.
if your running a missile boat you need at least 9 tons of ammo 12 would be optimal, and in my opinion you should have at least 2 medium Lasers
an ECM mech helps
command console
targeting computer
beagle
and even a tag (thought i dont use tag anymore)
The reason is to speed up targeting time and range
don't skimp on Electronics they really do help
you need to optimize your skill tree also.
LRMers are dependant on teammates, you can't go it alone
you need protection as well as people locking targets
Snipers may get away with going it alone (though i think its a bad idea)
But LRMers it may work sometimes but the vast majority of games
your simply going to lose, stay as close to your team as you can
and keep a UAV handy to pop when you have that inevitable lite problem.
IS or Clan?
The IS LRMs take more space , are heavier and run hotter
there a fewer Mechs and possibilities for effective LRM deployment
count the tubes on your mechs if you have 5 tubes but run an LRM 15
what you have in effect is a chain fire LRM 5s that don't hit as well,
run hotter and take longer to recycle (I often see Atlas pilots make this mistake)
The IS LRMs fire all at once, The Clan LRMs Fire like a fire hose,
one Missile after the other.
This is the main reason I think the IS LRMs have an advantage .
The damage from Clan LRMs is more spread out, they may hit as
well but they hit all over the target, where the IS Missles hit more in
a dense area
and during an ALPHA strike this is devastating on your target,
Alpha on Clan Mechs is just in effect a hotter way of chain firing.
though you are getting all your rachs firing together the effect isn't what the IS Mechs get.
One big massive Bomb on a denser area of your target.
when i run Clan mechs i get high damage scores but fewer out right kills,
what I'm doing is stripping off the Armour all over the mech and my teammates
can come in to hit the weak spots for the kill. i have played matches getting no kills but up 1300 damage.
I get more kills in an IS mech with LRM 15s, than a Clan Mech with LRM 20s and comparable Damages
any thoughts ?
I just wanted to share a little, I'm not heartless, I don't want to ruin anyone's game , I know people love to hate LRMers
but my advise to you, is run them lites, Wolf Packs are about the funnest times i ever had in this game.
and I Hope the same to all of you.
Finn.
1
Lrms; Just A Tactical Discussion
Started by FinnMcKool, Dec 04 2020 01:32 PM
31 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 01:47 PM
FinnMcKool, on 04 December 2020 - 01:32 PM, said:
any thoughts ?
What about using direct-fire weapons such as autocannons, lasers or PPCs?
They do not care about enemy ECM, they can not be negated by enemy AMS, they need no locks and are always ready. They are useful on all maps, while deploying in LRM-boat on Solaris City is a big problem unless you are really lucky. And of course, they can target damaged weak or damaged sections of enemy armor, i.e. you can damage enemy 'Mechs exactly where you want it or put them quickly out of combat.
Or, if you really want to use missiles, I would recommend using MRMs or SRMs.
#4
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 01:52 PM
i dont really use lrms on grounds that they are boring. but i do use atms. however i do rarely use them in events.
tubes: more is better at cutting through ams screens. ams is too strong for chain fire, so go for saturation. chain fire only when there is no ams cover to control heat. clans can stack smaller launchers to concentrate missiles.
clan or is: clan doesnt do as well at getting through ams screens as is does. this does not mean that clan lrm boats are bad, but compensate accordingly.
ammo: within reason. people brag about having 2k lrm ammo and then die after a couple hundred. if you frequently run out add more, but if you never run out you might have too much and that tonnage is better used elsewhere (such as heat sinks or backup weapons).
bap: always. unless you have a ppc and know how to use it. and even then its a good idea.
tag: useless, save the hardpoint for backup weapons.
backup weapons: always. 4 meds is usually adequate if you are fighting with your team. a single ppc can be used to break ecm (preferably one without a 90m dead zone that you can use against facehuggers). srms can do a lot of damage fast but cost a lot of tonnage, ok for heavier slower boats. i also had a lot of luck with a highlander with an uac20 as backup.
speed: more speed means you can reposition faster and keep up with the team. makes lerms more effective. i usually use xl or lfe engines on lerm boats. best lerm boats are actually mediums.
artemis: if you can afford it, you dont need it for effective lerming though. (i honestly dont know what it does in this iteration of mwo. it used to buff spread at one point.)
positioning: with team in a mid range skirmish position. never alone in the back. reposition frequently and never get caught off guard when your team nascars. don't stand in approach vectors for enemy squirrels (like on the anti-nascar side of the rear).
skills: all missile related skills in the weapon tree and almost full sensors. heat skills as appropriate.
those are usually my rules for lrm builds. but keep in mind out of 300+ mechs, i have like four dedicated lerm boats which i usually reserve for events that call for lrm damage. i have like twice as many atm boats and even more mrm boats.
tubes: more is better at cutting through ams screens. ams is too strong for chain fire, so go for saturation. chain fire only when there is no ams cover to control heat. clans can stack smaller launchers to concentrate missiles.
clan or is: clan doesnt do as well at getting through ams screens as is does. this does not mean that clan lrm boats are bad, but compensate accordingly.
ammo: within reason. people brag about having 2k lrm ammo and then die after a couple hundred. if you frequently run out add more, but if you never run out you might have too much and that tonnage is better used elsewhere (such as heat sinks or backup weapons).
bap: always. unless you have a ppc and know how to use it. and even then its a good idea.
tag: useless, save the hardpoint for backup weapons.
backup weapons: always. 4 meds is usually adequate if you are fighting with your team. a single ppc can be used to break ecm (preferably one without a 90m dead zone that you can use against facehuggers). srms can do a lot of damage fast but cost a lot of tonnage, ok for heavier slower boats. i also had a lot of luck with a highlander with an uac20 as backup.
speed: more speed means you can reposition faster and keep up with the team. makes lerms more effective. i usually use xl or lfe engines on lerm boats. best lerm boats are actually mediums.
artemis: if you can afford it, you dont need it for effective lerming though. (i honestly dont know what it does in this iteration of mwo. it used to buff spread at one point.)
positioning: with team in a mid range skirmish position. never alone in the back. reposition frequently and never get caught off guard when your team nascars. don't stand in approach vectors for enemy squirrels (like on the anti-nascar side of the rear).
skills: all missile related skills in the weapon tree and almost full sensors. heat skills as appropriate.
those are usually my rules for lrm builds. but keep in mind out of 300+ mechs, i have like four dedicated lerm boats which i usually reserve for events that call for lrm damage. i have like twice as many atm boats and even more mrm boats.
Edited by LordNothing, 04 December 2020 - 02:11 PM.
#5
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 02:00 PM
FinnMcKool, on 04 December 2020 - 01:32 PM, said:
so first off, ask any good lite pilot what his favorite target is. ok now that the truth about that is clear let's move on.
I would just like to point out some of my observations , I dont have the stats or proof, though many people before me have posted these things many times , Im sure with a little effort you can either prove me right or wrong, ,,,,,,,,,GO FOR IT
I did spend the vast majority of my early play as a lite pilot, my favorite mech is still the Commando TDK, but as time goes you need a change and I was drawn to play the mechs i so often hunted.
so let's have it
LRM 5s are better, in all ways IS and Clan
if you have a choice of 3 LRM 5s or 1 LRM 15, use the 5s and save the weight from not using Artemis. They will recycle faster run cooler and hit better, and you have a choice of Alpha or chain fire.
2 LRM 5s without Artemis do more damage than an LRM 10 with Artemis
Artemis may help LRM 5s , but i have never seen it in a practical sense, it seems to do nothing at all, in any case the weight saved far outweighs any benefit it may give.
I feel there is no Reason to use Artemis with LRM 5s.
Artemis does improve LRM 10s and up and i would recommend it if your space and tonnage allows, i can see many reasons for not using it but I would still try as best you can to use it.
one reason i feel for NOT using Artemis on 10s and up is the odd fact that when firing on lite mechs you can actually do more splash damage, therefore having a better chance of doing leg damage on them, as we all know the lites have their own ability to avoid damage.
The real reason for using LRM 10s and up, is simple, more is better, thought LRM 5s are better,
1 LRM 10 is still better than 1 LRM 5 but if you have a choice of 1 LRM10 or 2 LRM5s go for the 5s.
if your running a missile boat you need at least 9 tons of ammo 12 would be optimal, and in my opinion you should have at least 2 medium Lasers
an ECM mech helps
command console
targeting computer
beagle
and even a tag (thought i dont use tag anymore)
The reason is to speed up targeting time and range
don't skimp on Electronics they really do help
you need to optimize your skill tree also.
LRMers are dependant on teammates, you can't go it alone
you need protection as well as people locking targets
Snipers may get away with going it alone (though i think its a bad idea)
But LRMers it may work sometimes but the vast majority of games
your simply going to lose, stay as close to your team as you can
and keep a UAV handy to pop when you have that inevitable lite problem.
IS or Clan?
The IS LRMs take more space , are heavier and run hotter
there a fewer Mechs and possibilities for effective LRM deployment
count the tubes on your mechs if you have 5 tubes but run an LRM 15
what you have in effect is a chain fire LRM 5s that don't hit as well,
run hotter and take longer to recycle (I often see Atlas pilots make this mistake)
The IS LRMs fire all at once, The Clan LRMs Fire like a fire hose,
one Missile after the other.
This is the main reason I think the IS LRMs have an advantage .
The damage from Clan LRMs is more spread out, they may hit as
well but they hit all over the target, where the IS Missles hit more in
a dense area
and during an ALPHA strike this is devastating on your target,
Alpha on Clan Mechs is just in effect a hotter way of chain firing.
though you are getting all your rachs firing together the effect isn't what the IS Mechs get.
One big massive Bomb on a denser area of your target.
when i run Clan mechs i get high damage scores but fewer out right kills,
what I'm doing is stripping off the Armour all over the mech and my teammates
can come in to hit the weak spots for the kill. i have played matches getting no kills but up 1300 damage.
I get more kills in an IS mech with LRM 15s, than a Clan Mech with LRM 20s and comparable Damages
any thoughts ?
I just wanted to share a little, I'm not heartless, I don't want to ruin anyone's game , I know people love to hate LRMers
but my advise to you, is run them lites, Wolf Packs are about the funnest times i ever had in this game.
and I Hope the same to all of you.
Finn.
I would just like to point out some of my observations , I dont have the stats or proof, though many people before me have posted these things many times , Im sure with a little effort you can either prove me right or wrong, ,,,,,,,,,GO FOR IT
I did spend the vast majority of my early play as a lite pilot, my favorite mech is still the Commando TDK, but as time goes you need a change and I was drawn to play the mechs i so often hunted.
so let's have it
LRM 5s are better, in all ways IS and Clan
if you have a choice of 3 LRM 5s or 1 LRM 15, use the 5s and save the weight from not using Artemis. They will recycle faster run cooler and hit better, and you have a choice of Alpha or chain fire.
2 LRM 5s without Artemis do more damage than an LRM 10 with Artemis
Artemis may help LRM 5s , but i have never seen it in a practical sense, it seems to do nothing at all, in any case the weight saved far outweighs any benefit it may give.
I feel there is no Reason to use Artemis with LRM 5s.
Artemis does improve LRM 10s and up and i would recommend it if your space and tonnage allows, i can see many reasons for not using it but I would still try as best you can to use it.
one reason i feel for NOT using Artemis on 10s and up is the odd fact that when firing on lite mechs you can actually do more splash damage, therefore having a better chance of doing leg damage on them, as we all know the lites have their own ability to avoid damage.
The real reason for using LRM 10s and up, is simple, more is better, thought LRM 5s are better,
1 LRM 10 is still better than 1 LRM 5 but if you have a choice of 1 LRM10 or 2 LRM5s go for the 5s.
if your running a missile boat you need at least 9 tons of ammo 12 would be optimal, and in my opinion you should have at least 2 medium Lasers
an ECM mech helps
command console
targeting computer
beagle
and even a tag (thought i dont use tag anymore)
The reason is to speed up targeting time and range
don't skimp on Electronics they really do help
you need to optimize your skill tree also.
LRMers are dependant on teammates, you can't go it alone
you need protection as well as people locking targets
Snipers may get away with going it alone (though i think its a bad idea)
But LRMers it may work sometimes but the vast majority of games
your simply going to lose, stay as close to your team as you can
and keep a UAV handy to pop when you have that inevitable lite problem.
IS or Clan?
The IS LRMs take more space , are heavier and run hotter
there a fewer Mechs and possibilities for effective LRM deployment
count the tubes on your mechs if you have 5 tubes but run an LRM 15
what you have in effect is a chain fire LRM 5s that don't hit as well,
run hotter and take longer to recycle (I often see Atlas pilots make this mistake)
The IS LRMs fire all at once, The Clan LRMs Fire like a fire hose,
one Missile after the other.
This is the main reason I think the IS LRMs have an advantage .
The damage from Clan LRMs is more spread out, they may hit as
well but they hit all over the target, where the IS Missles hit more in
a dense area
and during an ALPHA strike this is devastating on your target,
Alpha on Clan Mechs is just in effect a hotter way of chain firing.
though you are getting all your rachs firing together the effect isn't what the IS Mechs get.
One big massive Bomb on a denser area of your target.
when i run Clan mechs i get high damage scores but fewer out right kills,
what I'm doing is stripping off the Armour all over the mech and my teammates
can come in to hit the weak spots for the kill. i have played matches getting no kills but up 1300 damage.
I get more kills in an IS mech with LRM 15s, than a Clan Mech with LRM 20s and comparable Damages
any thoughts ?
I just wanted to share a little, I'm not heartless, I don't want to ruin anyone's game , I know people love to hate LRMers
but my advise to you, is run them lites, Wolf Packs are about the funnest times i ever had in this game.
and I Hope the same to all of you.
Finn.
Kind right but also wrong too lazy and high to say much more right now but for most part right. But for the love of god if you re going to use LRM learn to use the range finder they work just fine up till 180
Edited by SirSmokes, 04 December 2020 - 02:05 PM.
#6
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 02:06 PM
your points are valid
the AMS point is an important fact i left out, tha IS LRMs breack through better and if you Alpha even better
but you can't compare playing snipers with LRMs , they simply are too different, ATMs are again a whole new animal, more like a brawler.
as in all games it all boils down to a rock, paper, scissors just a little more complicated.
the AMS point is an important fact i left out, tha IS LRMs breack through better and if you Alpha even better
but you can't compare playing snipers with LRMs , they simply are too different, ATMs are again a whole new animal, more like a brawler.
as in all games it all boils down to a rock, paper, scissors just a little more complicated.
#7
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 02:08 PM
FinnMcKool, on 04 December 2020 - 02:06 PM, said:
your points are valid
the AMS point is an important fact i left out, tha IS LRMs breack through better and if you Alpha even better
but you can't compare playing snipers with LRMs , they simply are too different, ATMs are again a whole new animal, more like a brawler.
as in all games it all boils down to a rock, paper, scissors just a little more complicated.
the AMS point is an important fact i left out, tha IS LRMs breack through better and if you Alpha even better
but you can't compare playing snipers with LRMs , they simply are too different, ATMs are again a whole new animal, more like a brawler.
as in all games it all boils down to a rock, paper, scissors just a little more complicated.
LRMs can brawl just fine if you are with your team and your not a fool. Range finder is a god send
Edited by SirSmokes, 04 December 2020 - 02:09 PM.
#8
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 02:17 PM
i will always recommend, whatever mech you play to stay with your team best you can
#9
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 02:19 PM
FinnMcKool, on 04 December 2020 - 02:17 PM, said:
i will always recommend, whatever mech you play to stay with your team best you can
But you can be far more aggressive with ATMs and they get better as you get close range so yes ATMs are a much better brawling weapon them LRMs but you can brawl with LRMs with skill
#10
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 03:16 PM
IS lrms: A tactical guide for the new user:
1. 180 minimal range.
2. Lrms do not go through rocks,walls,buildings,cars,the ground, team mates or canyon walls. you must fire above or around them.
3. USE YOUR DAM LASERS WHEN ENEMY IS IN RANGE.
1. 180 minimal range.
2. Lrms do not go through rocks,walls,buildings,cars,the ground, team mates or canyon walls. you must fire above or around them.
3. USE YOUR DAM LASERS WHEN ENEMY IS IN RANGE.
#11
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Posted 04 December 2020 - 03:17 PM
JediPanther, on 04 December 2020 - 03:16 PM, said:
IS lrms: A tactical guide for the new user:
1. 180 minimal range.
2. Lrms do not go through rocks,walls,buildings,cars,the ground, team mates or canyon walls. you must fire above or around them.
3. USE YOUR DAM LASERS WHEN ENEMY IS IN RANGE.
1. 180 minimal range.
2. Lrms do not go through rocks,walls,buildings,cars,the ground, team mates or canyon walls. you must fire above or around them.
3. USE YOUR DAM LASERS WHEN ENEMY IS IN RANGE.
Also have your OWN tag get your own tags when you can. Use indirect and direct as need don't be the potato LRM pilot people hate move with the team. There a god damn range finder use it
Edited by SirSmokes, 04 December 2020 - 03:19 PM.
#12
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Posted 05 December 2020 - 04:54 PM
theres a reason i say bring a snub or cerppc. it breaks ecm way better than a tag does. it also makes sure you dont die to a cherry red zombie with a single small laser. i have a snub and streak highlander that worked well. it doesn't even have a bap.
Edited by LordNothing, 05 December 2020 - 04:55 PM.
#13
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Posted 05 December 2020 - 08:27 PM
all good points
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Posted 06 December 2020 - 03:58 AM
LordNothing, on 05 December 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:
theres a reason i say bring a snub or cerppc. it breaks ecm way better than a tag does. it also makes sure you dont die to a cherry red zombie with a single small laser. i have a snub and streak highlander that worked well. it doesn't even have a bap.
Good tactic but you do don't get improved missile spread without tag but if your hitting them with PPCs that not really a problem but you do lose missile spread with out tag should be noted.
#15
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Posted 06 December 2020 - 12:42 PM
i also noticed that if you hit an unlocked target, a blank target so to speak, if you hit them with any weapon ,ppc laser or gun; that a lock with start to form.
#16
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Posted 06 December 2020 - 12:49 PM
FinnMcKool, on 06 December 2020 - 12:42 PM, said:
i also noticed that if you hit an unlocked target, a blank target so to speak, if you hit them with any weapon ,ppc laser or gun; that a lock with start to form.
You can turn that off with this line in the user.cfg:
gp_mech_disable_autotarget = 1 -- 1) do not auto target mech under crosshair
#17
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Posted 06 December 2020 - 01:01 PM
i'm not sure where your going with that , i don't know anything about digging into the code, i don't see that as helping play the game
maybe i'm just ignorant but that's just me,
My point was only to help people wanting to play or understand what it is to play Missiles
maybe i'm just ignorant but that's just me,
My point was only to help people wanting to play or understand what it is to play Missiles
#18
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Posted 06 December 2020 - 01:34 PM
SirSmokes, on 06 December 2020 - 03:58 AM, said:
Good tactic but you do don't get improved missile spread without tag but if your hitting them with PPCs that not really a problem but you do lose missile spread with out tag should be noted.
streaks bone home so in this case it works. when did tag get a spread buff?
#19
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Posted 06 December 2020 - 10:16 PM
Tag is pretty great. The lock on time is super fast which allows me to peek and lurm near the front line or lock onto jumping light mechs. Relying on teammates for locks is usually unreliable and the spread on targets that are out of LOS is worse. Firing out of LOS is just a lot of wasted damage for the most part. There's also a chance I get shot a few times so I can share some armor on my (usually) heavy mech lurmboat. I can always retreat to the back after taking my share of damage. Getting a 3x RAC2 mech to focus on me instead of our frontline assaults is a great trade to me.
Also when I have LOS I know my missiles are actually hitting the target instead of a wall and I can see if there's a 4x AMS corsair nearby eating up all my rokits.
Also when I have LOS I know my missiles are actually hitting the target instead of a wall and I can see if there's a 4x AMS corsair nearby eating up all my rokits.
#20
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Posted 07 December 2020 - 02:28 AM
Bringing your own TAG does not improve your own lock-on times nor the spread of your missiles. This was removed with the LRM overhaul.
https://mwomercs.com...atch-notes/2251
https://mwomercs.com...atch-notes/2251
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