36 replies to this topic

[FlareUKCS]

First up I am loving the game, been on since beta access...

Heres the thing, I have been stuck on the lowest rank all this time, I think its like 5 or something, suddenly I am 3... I love this level, but win or lose I either lose rank or keep my place.
Now my issue is that I play to win, for the team but the system doesn't care about that...DPS done is all it seems to care about.
Did I spot the enemy for my LRM's ? Don't care.
Did I watch a potential spot the enemy could flank ? Don't care

My issue is I am happy at my level, but no matter what I do... my ranking is going down down down.

Is this game all about doing damage only?
If so why the heck should I guard any flanks ?
Why should I spot for my LRM's ?
Why should I defend my team mate ?

Why does the system punish me for being useful, unless I am running at the enemy and shooting all guns... even if those guns are Small Lasers.
I can't seem to raise my rating, even if I live... unless I am murdering the enemy, but as a scout that is the wrong thing, as a assualt yes, but as a scout... I say no.

Am I the only one feeling like the rating system is a bit broke ?
Is it too late to fix as MW5 is a thing ? Is MWO dead ?
How can I keep my rating ? DPS only or ?

[LordNothing]

i peaked a long time ago. playing at a high level is too damn stressful. let psr stick me where it will.

f im t3 again.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 December 2020 - 04:15 PM.

[Nightbird]

The question is not just are you being useful, but are you being more or less useful than the average pilot on your team/in the game. If you're contributing less than average, then it is appropriate for your ranking to go down. The easiest way to tell your contribution is your W/L ratio. If you are average, then it doesn't help or hurt your team to have you, so your W/L will be around 1.

[RickySpanish]

Lockheed_, on 10 December 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:

The new ranking works like this: Your match score, mostly based on damage is compared with all of your team mates and also with the enemy team, then also win or loss plays a role, but less.
So lets say your team wins the match, but you are at them bottom of damage done, you lose rank. Yes you can lose rank now if you lose a match.
Now lets say your team loses but you have done respectable dmg and are at the top of your team, your rank will increase.

So forget playing objectives, spotting targets, harassing enemies, your damage matters and pretty much the rest is just nice to have on top. Oh yeah and also AMS -> missiles shot down, is a killer ranking booster.

If you can get to about 400+ dmg per match on average and 1-2 kills you should be climbing. 350 dmg average is probably gonna keep you stable. Below that you will drop

The new system is a bit unfair to lights as you are competing with the assault over dmg. So you have to be actually good at what your doing when you pick a light.

Eh Lights are no worse off than Assaults, it's perfectly easy to get melted in an Annihilator having done nothing except trundle off your spawn point.

OP the game rewards direct participation more than anything. Forget information warfare, you got to actually damage and kill the other team as quickly as possible.

[Horseman]

As a scout, you're still a combat mech. Your goal will be to flank the enemy, drop strikes on entrenched enemy groups and clean up stray/damaged units, possibly at extreme range (think ERLLs/ERPPCs) or when they're busy fighting with other members of your team.

[LordNothing]

the dedicated scout role generally doesnt work. you essentially relay what info you find on your way to find an out of place assault mech. thats what scouting means in this game.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 December 2020 - 01:54 AM.

[crazytimes]

FlareUKCS, on 10 December 2020 - 04:06 PM, said:

Heres the thing, I have been stuck on the lowest rank all this time, I think its like 5 or something, suddenly I am 3... I love this level, but win or lose I either lose rank or keep my place.

Everyone got reset to 3. You're just going back to where you belong. It's maths, nothing personal by the system.

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Now my issue is that I play to win, for the team but the system doesn't care about that...DPS done is all it seems to care about.
Did I spot the enemy for my LRM's ? Don't care.
Did I watch a potential spot the enemy could flank ? Don't care

The match score rewards for all that haven't changed. The utility of that to your team also has not.

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My issue is I am happy at my level

I don't know... it looks like you started this thread for a reason.

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Is this game all about doing damage only?
If so why the heck should I guard any flanks ?
Why should I spot for my LRM's ?
Why should I defend my team mate ?

Why does the system punish me for being useful,

Objective measurements of utility disagree with your self assessment. It's cool- it's a game- play it 100% the way you want to play. Just don't expect to end up with it assessing skill as higher than it is.

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Am I the only one feeling like the rating system is a bit broke ?

All that changed is you are no longer rewarded for being carried.

The PS system is far from perfect- but you're averaging a match score of 90 in tier 3. What do you think happens if you were going up and ended up in tier 1?

[K O Z A K]

the problem is that some things you may consider useful are not so useful

apart from perhaps conquest in some cases, all other game modes come down to you having to destroy the enemy team before they destroy you, you do this more or less by how much damage you deal (it's not exact as component precision and some weapons may bring this up and down a bit, but it is a fairly good indicator)

spotting an enemy for lrms means you're doing nothing to destroy the enemy

watching a flank that may never come means you're doing nothing to destroy the enemy

your goal no matter what weight class you're using is to seek out and destroy enemy mechs, just depending on class how you go about doing it varies

[Aivazovsky]

Mmm, you are poorly rewarded because you are a "team player"? I am also a team player, and i have a secret for you: scouting, spoting for LRMs, flanking, helping teammates and doing damage at the same time. You know, human can do more than one task.

[Lieutenant Hedgehog]

I'm with you OP. I've been playing a good two months now and certainly perform better than I used to. But have never moved past Tier 5.

There's certainly reasons.
I die a lot. Kill / Death ratio is currently 0.3.
Average damage / match score is between 150 - 450.
I don't use Consumables, which would obviously contribute a LOT.

Still, I'm surprised I'm no closer to Tier 4 than when I began.
I consistently get kills, use AMS + ECM, communicate, lock targets, etc. etc., have a roster of 20+ mechs.
(why not more bonuses for ecm btw??)

It feels like the only way to rise in rank is to play in a very specific fashion, but that isn't explained in game.

That's what bugs me the most.
It's not clear WHAT I need to do to raise my rank.

Is it because my overall Kill / Death ratio is bad?
Is it because my average damage/kills per match is low?
Is it because I need to improve my win/lose ratio?
Maybe those 3 or 4 matches I played in trial mechs as a cadet are dragging down my overall averages?

Obviously some combination of all 3 the above, but I don't know for sure!
Because I'm killing more than when I started, I'm doing more damage then when I started, I'm winning more than when I started, but I stay at Tier 5.
So I'm doing SOMETHING specific wrong, but I don't know what.

There's no way to measure.
It would be great to have it laid out somewhere like, to reach Tier 4 you need a KDR of 0.5 and overall Avg damage of 200 points per match. Tier 3 you need a KDR of 0.7 and overall Avg damage of 300 points per match. etc. etc.

Thankfully Tier 5 can be pretty fun.
It's just weird knowing that you are objectively improving, but not having it reflected in your 'rank'.

[K O Z A K]

Lieutenant Hedgehog, on 11 December 2020 - 07:12 AM, said:

Is it because my overall Kill / Death ratio is bad?
Is it because my average damage/kills per match is low?
Is it because I need to improve my win/lose ratio?

All of the above

The more damage you do, the more likely you are to get kills, and win the matches

it really is that simple

[Lieutenant Hedgehog]

Hazeclaw, on 11 December 2020 - 07:34 AM, said:

All of the above

The more damage you do, the more likely you are to get kills, and win the matches

it really is that simple

Guess I need to bust out the artillery strikes!
My damage, kills, and wins are all objectively better per game than when I started.
My tier is not.
That is not obvious to me.

I guess I need to play specifically with the intent of improving those averages across every mech and game mode. (which I mean, I am, I'm not trying to lose)

I'm just surprised that my Tier remains firmly at Tier 5, knowing that I am legitimately a better player now than I was a month ago.

So maybe my early games just totally mess up my average, or the 'qualification' for Tier 4 is higher than I imagine.


also -- true north strong and free, fellow Canadian??

[K O Z A K]

Lieutenant Hedgehog, on 11 December 2020 - 08:12 AM, said:

Guess I need to bust out the artillery strikes!
My damage, kills, and wins are all objectively better per game than when I started.
My tier is not.
That is not obvious to me.

I guess I need to play specifically with the intent of improving those averages across every mech and game mode. (which I mean, I am, I'm not trying to lose)

I'm just surprised that my Tier remains firmly at Tier 5, knowing that I am legitimately a better player now than I was a month ago.

So maybe my early games just totally mess up my average, or the 'qualification' for Tier 4 is higher than I imagine.

bring 2 strikes on all mechs, there's just no reason not to, just try not to drop them on your team

performance in this game is all about mech loadout, positioning and mechanical skill

first figure out if your mechs make sense and are performing well check out https://grimmechs.isengrim.org/ for good examples of builds, then figure out your positioning both in relation to the enemy team and your own, learn the maps, when and where to be and not to be, and then work on your mechanical skill, movement and aim

your tier is not going up because you are still not performing well, if you're doing better now than before, it's still not enough, as you keep working on your mechs and abilities, and start performing better your psr will go up

don't rush to get into a higher tier, going up in tier just means you're going to end up in more difficult matches with stronger opponents and end up performing even worse (or at least that's the idea), are you sure that's what you want when you're still not doing very well in a lower tier?

Lieutenant Hedgehog, on 11 December 2020 - 08:12 AM, said:

also -- true north strong and free, fellow Canadian??

quite a few of us in this game

Edited by Hazeclaw, 11 December 2020 - 08:26 AM.

[Lieutenant Hedgehog]

Hazeclaw, on 11 December 2020 - 08:26 AM, said:

your tier is not going up because you are still not performing well, if you're doing better now than before, it's still not enough, as you keep working on your mechs and abilities, and start performing better your psr will go up

don't rush to get into a higher tier, going up in tier just means you're going to end up in more difficult matches with stronger opponents and end up performing even worse (or at least that's the idea), are you sure that's what you want when you're still not doing very well in a lower tier?

totally, and to be fair, i'm not trying to be the kawhi leonard of Mechwarrior, I'm not streaming on Twitch for my thousands of followers, I just love Battletech and want to have some fun with friends shooting fools and collecting mechs.
If I lose, I lose, if I die, I die, you gain XP and Cbills either way so just keep playing.

Tier 5 in my experience people are chill and fun, some matches are one sided and some are very close. Who doesn't love a good close fight that ends 12-9.


And now I'm looking at the Leaderboard, and the system is making more sense.
I see pages and pages of players with 25 wins (same as me) but higher average match scores than me.
But this gives me something objective to measure against, which is what I was missing.

So my stats are a totally justified Tier 5, because I do my best every game, but overall need to go up in comparison to the rest of the population.
The Leaderboard was the missing piece of the puzzle!

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quite a few of us in this game

Yeah man, met a buddy in game from Montreal who I play with regularly!

[K O Z A K]

use this leaderboard instead of ingame: https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/

the in game leaderboard, for starters by default is basically sorted by games played (wins, but ultimately it's the result of games played), which is totally useless and 2nd doesn't account for weight classes, ie it's harder to score the same damage in a light as in an assault. The best way to use the ingame leaderboard is to sort by avg match score, but it still has limitations, the jarls leaderboard is an improvement over the ingame leaderboard

but don't sweat it too much, if you're having fun in tier 5, just play the game and enjoy

[Lieutenant Hedgehog]

Hazeclaw, on 11 December 2020 - 09:21 AM, said:

use this leaderboard instead of ingame: https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/

Duuuuuuude this is exactly what I wanted to see

This makes totally clear how I've improved, where I'm still weak, how formulas are calculated, all of that

W/L, K/D, Avg Score, all are up from a month ago, so just gotta keep this trajectory going

Amazing, thank you!

[Nightbird]

Lieutenant Hedgehog, on 11 December 2020 - 09:28 AM, said:

Duuuuuuude this is exactly what I wanted to see

This makes totally clear how I've improved, where I'm still weak, how formulas are calculated, all of that

W/L, K/D, Avg Score, all are up from a month ago, so just gotta keep this trajectory going

Amazing, thank you!

Yep, you'll be on your way up in Tiers in 1 or 2 months tops.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Note that some of the activities that improve match score and give rewards require you to be with your lance or team.
Savior kills, lance formation, proximity protect.

Not to mention possible huge matchscore rewards from having AMS near the main group if the enemy team has lots of missiles.

[Sagara Sousuke 011011001]

Nightbird, on 10 December 2020 - 04:30 PM, said:

The question is not just are you being useful, but are you being more or less useful than the average pilot on your team/in the game. If you're contributing less than average, then it is appropriate for your ranking to go down. The easiest way to tell your contribution is your W/L ratio. If you are average, then it doesn't help or hurt your team to have you, so your W/L will be around 1.

If we are talking QP, I'm not convinced this is the case anymore depending on how a person is playing. If you are dropping solo your personal W/L doesn't really reflect how you helped the team anymore because groups within a team are now really the driving factor to a win or loss.

Edited by Sagara Sousuke 011011001, 11 December 2020 - 10:31 AM.

[Vorpal Puppy]

You also need to pay attention to what the team damage numbers at the end of the match say. Your match score gets punished pretty hard for team damage. Drop an arty on your team, and your match score is going down (as it should) even if you break 1000 damage.