36 replies to this topic

[No1Curr]

If I see one more of you try and cap out with 1-2 mechs while the rest of your team is actually fighting the enemy team so help me God I will come kick your asses straight into a back alley of Solaris City. Knock it the hell off. It isn't helpful, especially when we need more guns actually pointed at the enemy team.

[Kroete]

In p(ick)u(p)g(roups) you have to work with what you get and do the best with it.
You cant order them, you can just suggest and hope they will do it.

Until the merge i said to that kind of post:
If you cant bear the randomness of pug play, go play groups.
But now i must say go play as 12 man in cw or adapt.

Edited by Kroete, 16 December 2020 - 03:06 AM.

[crazytimes]

About once every 4-500 games outside of conquest capping actually affects the outcome.

[VonBruinwald]

crazytimes, on 16 December 2020 - 03:14 AM, said:

About once every 4-500 games outside of conquest capping actually affects the outcome.

And when it does it's beautiful, especially when the better players are on the losing team.

[Bigbacon]

Oh noes, your team might win better get angry.

[John Bronco]

Bigbacon, on 16 December 2020 - 06:53 AM, said:

Oh noes, your team might win better get angry.

Capping most frequently results in a loss since it puts your team at a massive disadvantage in the fight. Absolute anti-team behavior.

[RickySpanish]

Bigbacon, on 16 December 2020 - 06:53 AM, said:

Oh noes, your team might win better get angry.

OK so once your entire team is dead because you were effectively a disconnect, how do you plan on winning the match? The majority of maps are small enough that two or three live 'Mechs will completely negate your attempt to "win better".

[Deathstroke]

Strange. 3 games last night, either I or one of my buddies (or sometimes two of us) would go around capping. In all 3 of those games, we won to cap and the other side complained.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

No1Curr, on 16 December 2020 - 12:36 AM, said:

If I see one more of you try and cap out with 1-2 mechs while the rest of your team is actually fighting the enemy team so help me God I will come kick your asses straight into a back alley of Solaris City. Knock it the hell off. It isn't helpful, especially when we need more guns actually pointed at the enemy team.

screw you, if I want to play the mode, I'll play the mode.

[crazytimes]

Deathstroke, on 16 December 2020 - 07:32 AM, said:

Strange. 3 games last night, either I or one of my buddies (or sometimes two of us) would go around capping. In all 3 of those games, we won to cap and the other side complained.

Your experiences in tier 5 now include cadets who don't understand game mechanics. A fair portion of players will have come from World.of Tanks, where capping is actually effective, but heavily frowned upon.

For the bulk of the population, capping really doesn't cause wins very often.

[RickySpanish]

Yeah what we really should've prefaced this with, is that as tier increases, so the value of playing the objective decreases. This is because unless both sides turtle up, higher tier games tend to play out a lot faster leading to less resources gained by the time the fight is basically over. Playing the objective works only when you have enough time to play it.

[Bigbacon]

Deathstroke, on 16 December 2020 - 07:32 AM, said:

Strange. 3 games last night, either I or one of my buddies (or sometimes two of us) would go around capping. In all 3 of those games, we won to cap and the other side complained.

I've been running light mechs all day with full 20% extra cap speed nodes. You always end up drawing away a few mechs from the fight and then you just run away and rejoin your team while those, usually, slower mechs flounder around.

[Bigbacon]

RickySpanish, on 16 December 2020 - 11:20 AM, said:

Yeah what we really should've prefaced this with, is that as tier increases, so the value of playing the objective decreases. This is because unless both sides turtle up, higher tier games tend to play out a lot faster leading to less resources gained by the time the fight is basically over. Playing the objective works only when you have enough time to play it.

its also very map dependent. Smaller maps usually no big deal but larger ones it can matter a lot more.

[Bowelhacker]

No1Curr, on 16 December 2020 - 12:36 AM, said:

If I see one more of you try and cap out with 1-2 mechs while the rest of your team is actually fighting the enemy team so help me God I will come kick your asses straight into a back alley of Solaris City. Knock it the hell off. It isn't helpful, especially when we need more guns actually pointed at the enemy team.

Note to self: always cap in games featuring No1Curr.

[RickySpanish]

No1Curr, on 16 December 2020 - 11:22 AM, said:

Note to self: leg Bowelhacker

It'd just take him longer to cap then though.

[Heavy Money]

There are several situations where I will Cap in Assault:
- When I can see that my team doesn't have it together and is going to die anyway. Sometimes you can still win through capping.
- When I'm in a premade of fast mediums/heavies that can cap so fast the enemy can't get back in time (although this usually causes a rank down on the win.)
- When I am fast enough that I can get on their base before the major engagement gets locked in, and thus lead off some of their team or otherwise mess up their cohesion.

In Conquest, you have to balance capping vs fighting. Generally things skew far too much to fighting, so I don't mind players who go cap. I've seen lots of Conquest matches where we win the fight and lose on points.

[Bigbacon]

No1Curr, on 16 December 2020 - 11:20 AM, said:

Enjoy torpedoing your team then, I know they probably will



Except when the enemy team knows they've got plenty of time to serve your team their asses on a platter and then come deal with you

If you're counting on the enemy team to be dumb you're in for a shock

if that is the case your team was usually toasted so quickly to begin with that 1 mech wasn't going to make much of a difference. You were going to win no matter what. Again, smaller maps, won't make much of a differnce because you always have time to get back. Larger maps can be much different.

Edited by Bigbacon, 16 December 2020 - 01:44 PM.

[Heavy Money]

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Extremely unlikely unless the enemy team is legged and you're on the other side of a HUGE map.

It works more often than you'd think. People get tunnel vision. And when they're stomping, they often prefer to keep killing.

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You turn your game into antifun and your only quibble is the PSR down?

Fast wolfpacks are a lot of fun, and provide some variety for both sides.

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Tapping the base is likely only going to work with an enemy team that's very dumb.

So, most of them?

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Also why I loathe Conq, because it creates two different priority trees for a win condition, makes teams split/scatter, and capping neither pays well nor does it develop any kind of skill for a player. STAND ON POINT TIL FLIP AND REPEAT. ENGAGING.

Conquest is a lot of fun, you're just upset that you have to use tactics, positioning and coordination in a game that's about tactics, positioning and coordination. Multiple priority trees for a win is a good thing. Splitting the team means every match isn't just 2 blobs smashing into each other, and provides reasons to have more variety in mech roles.

[Bigbacon]

No1Curr, on 16 December 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

You turn your game into antifun and your only quibble is the PSR down?

you assume everyone cares about PSR. I surely don't. it doesn't really mean much.

[Heavy Money]

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Says more about quality of play than it says about the viability of the strat and given that I see it work ALMOST NEVER it could be .01% more likely than that and you'd be TECHNICALLY CORRECT and still playing like a fool because you're trading what "usually works" for "might work in an edge case".

Its not playing like a fool if the match is already going to be lost anyways.

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Wolfpacking implies you're shooting and killing stuff, not playing Trading Spaces in mechs.

The nice thing about having speed is you can pick what's best for your situation. For example, if you're on HPG Manifold and the enemy team has piled top and has 5 assault mechs, and your team is spread out and half still in spawn, then you're much better off going for the base cap than kamikazying into their blob.

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"If it works on dumb teams it's a good strat!" If it works on SMART teams it works as well or better on DUMB teams. Again, quit using edge case or "BEST POSSIBLE SCENARIO" crap to justify lazy, lousy, unengaging play.

I'm not making any arguments about some hypothetical optimal meta and team scenario. I'm making the observation that sometimes its a good move, depending on the situation. And the 'situation' is that you're stuck playing with the team you've got, and often that team is disorganized pugs. Call it edge cases if you want. Maybe they are. My argument was that in some scenarios, it makes sense to cap. If you think those scenarios are edge cases, then sure. You seem to be arguing that you should play as if it wasn't an edge case even when it is, rather than adapting.

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Know what tactics, positioning and coordination is even better for?

SHOOTING THINGS.

Depends.