32 replies to this topic

[Athenus Baal]

I've been mucking about with gauss rifles in MWO for a while because they are a cool concept but I feel they are not worth their weight in terms of performance except for maybe the heavy rifle.

My main issue is why anyone would create a direct fire single slug weapon with trigger lag? It is not much use against anything except slow or static targets, hence heavy rifle on assaults vs assaults works but against lighter faster mechs not so much.

With regard the lag, I hear you say the rifle must charge before it can fire, but if it is not charged as standard why does it explode on a critical hit? Has there been a playtest with no charge lag on gauss weaponry? What was the result?

You may also say the gauss rifles have heat and range advantages against autocannons but this is offset by much higher weight and lower comparable damage per ton.

Would it overpower gauss rifles to drop the trigger charge period or even transfer it to the cool down? Thoughts?

[martian]

Varn Kaltos, on 01 January 2021 - 06:14 AM, said:

I've been mucking about with gauss rifles in MWO for a while because they are a cool concept but I feel they are not worth their weight in terms of performance except for maybe the heavy rifle.

In the hands of a skilled player, Gauss rifle can still be a very effective weapon.

Varn Kaltos, on 01 January 2021 - 06:14 AM, said:

My main issue is why anyone would create a direct fire single slug weapon with trigger lag? It is not much use against anything except slow or static targets, hence heavy rifle on assaults vs assaults works but against lighter faster mechs not so much.
...
Would it overpower gauss rifles to drop the trigger charge period or even transfer it to the cool down? Thoughts?

The charge mechanics has been implented in 2013 to make Gauss Rifle less deadly.

Varn Kaltos, on 01 January 2021 - 06:14 AM, said:

With regard the lag, I hear you say the rifle must charge before it can fire, but if it is not charged as standard why does it explode on a critical hit? Has there been a playtest with no charge lag on gauss weaponry? What was the result?

Gauss Rifle - especially when combined with some weapons - used to be on of the most powerful weapons in MWO. This extreme usefulness has been toned down.

Plus, although the weapon itself can explode after taking a critical hit, its ammo is inert and does not explode when critted.

Varn Kaltos, on 01 January 2021 - 06:14 AM, said:

You may also say the gauss rifles have heat and range advantages against autocannons but this is offset by much higher weight and lower comparable damage per ton.

Gauss Rifle has more or less the same weight as AC-20, but with the optimal range 660 m, minimal heat and much faster projectile. Without giving it some disadvantages, there would be no point in having AC-20 in the game.

[Gagis]

Its become a lot less popular than it used to be ever since Gauss and PPC ghost heat limits were combined but it still performs in Gauss Vomit builds that combine low-heat Gauss with high-heat lasers.

WHM-6R with 2Gauss+6ERML is probably the most significant example.

[Athenus Baal]

Thanks for your replies.

[Meep Meep]

Still waiting on a Hollander..

[martian]

Meep Meep, on 02 January 2021 - 03:41 AM, said:

Still waiting on a Hollander..

Play Mektek's fan mod of MechWarrior 4.

[DaMuchi]

I think you just need to practice shooting a Gauss since most of your argument seems to pivot on it being hard to aim with. it has a 0.75 seconds charge time so the only thing that you cant shoot are poptarts. eve light circling around you can be shot if down.

[Armchair General]

Thread moved to General Discussion

[PocketYoda]

Personally everyone i meet literally hates the charge up.. A lot of people just cannot or will not get their heads around the concept.

I somewhat agree, while i can use them the charge up just sucks chocolate salty ballz.

[McGoat]

@Varn

Gauss rifles, even with their current annoyances (re: charge mechanic) are excellent weapons to pair with lasers and, even still with ghost heat, ppcs.

Their purpose serves as a pinpoint damage with high velocity. So given the typical mid range games of QP what you're aiming at should be what you hit at full damage, which is great if you're seeking out kills

If you're having trouble with the charge I often suggest that people keep gauss bound with their lasers and simply hold M1 during the burn and let go when the burn completes; doing this focuses the laser damage in addition to charging the gauss and letting it hit the intended component.

Edited by McGoat, 28 May 2021 - 03:53 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

^This, exactly.

I also bind weapon groups 1-6 to the gauss whenever possible, so I'll have a nicely recognizable green ring around my reticule when fully charged.

[Khobai]

MechaGnome, on 28 May 2021 - 02:34 AM, said:

Personally everyone i meet literally hates the charge up.. A lot of people just cannot or will not get their heads around the concept.

I somewhat agree, while i can use them the charge up just sucks chocolate salty ballz.

Chargeup has 2 major problems.

1) it exists purely as a mechanical impediment/skill barrier to prevent new players or certain types of players from being able to use it. Its exactly like the stupid DDR minigame you used to have to play to unjam UACs back in beta. Nobody liked that either.

2) the chargeup mechanic itself is not being used in an intuitive or organic manner (megamans arm cannon where you hold down fire to charge his cannon is an example of chargeup being used in an organic way that makes sense)

I personally think Gauss should be able to fire immediately without being charged up for half damage. And you should then be able to charge it up to do full damage. That would make the charge mechanic much more meaningful and give more versatility to the gauss rifle by allowing you to snapshot it for half damage or charge it up to do bonus damage proportional to the charge amount (upto the regular full damage).

Charging up a gauss rifle should be a tactical choice not a skill impediment. Thats where PGI got it wrong.

Edited by Khobai, 28 May 2021 - 04:19 AM.

[Davegt27]

OP you have to go back to the earlier days of MWO

I got the info from listening to old NGNG's pod cast

the gauss did not have a charge Mechanic and because of complaints they where considered OP

Paul was charged with a way to nerf gauss so he went to Russ's partner I forget his name

and he is the one that came up with the idea of the charge mechanic (or something along those lines)

the charge mechanic is supposed to simulate a sniper in action

after that initial nerf more nerfs have come out to limit the gauss

[Khobai]

chargeup is actually counterintuitive to gauss being a sniper weapon because snipers can snapshot.

which is why I think allowing gauss to snapshot for half damage or chargeup for full damage is a good compromise and makes far more sense.

Edited by Khobai, 28 May 2021 - 04:25 AM.

[McGoat]

Khobai, on 28 May 2021 - 04:05 AM, said:

it exists purely as a mechanical impediment/skill barrier to prevent new players or certain types of players from being able to use it

Wut.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

The charge up on the gauss rifle can easily be worked around by pre-empting the need to charge it up and getting the gauss charge skills so you can keep the charge ready for longer.

Khobai, on 28 May 2021 - 04:24 AM, said:

which is why I think allowing gauss to snapshot for half damage or chargeup for full damage is a good compromise and makes far more sense.

There is a weapon that lets you snapshot, its called an AC/10.

[Brauer]

The gauss charge does do more than just serve as a skill floor. It does lower gauss dps and if you are fighting a gauss mech you can abuse their need to charge up in certain scenarios. So it does help balance the weapon. I don't have a terribly strong opinion on whether the mechanic needs to stay, I wasn't around before the mechanic, but I don't think it's a huge issue right now either.

Personally I find my Gausshammers (2xGauss+6xERML or 2xLight Gauss + 2xERPPC), among other gauss mechs, to be pretty strong right now but not overbearingly so.

[Khobai]

Monke-, on 28 May 2021 - 04:48 AM, said:

The charge up on the gauss rifle can easily be worked around by pre-empting the need to charge it up and getting the gauss charge skills so you can keep the charge ready for longer.

There is a weapon that lets you snapshot, its called an AC/10.

AC10 doesnt do 15 damage or have nearly the range of a gauss rifle.

furthermore clans dont have access to such a weapon since their AC10s fire in bursts.

nice try though. but the reality is the AC10 does not come close to filling the role of the gauss rifle outside of your wonderful imagination.

And as a sniper weapon the gauss rifle should definitely be able to snap fire.

McGoat, on 28 May 2021 - 04:27 AM, said:

Wut.

yes. gauss charge up serves no purpose other than to limit the number of players using the weapon by creating an artificial barrier that has to be overcome to use it.

not sure why you have trouble grasping something so simple or why its a bad thing.

but many people have expressed their disdain for gauss chargeup.

I personally dont think gauss chargeup is that hard to learn but I also dont see a point to it either and I totally get why so many people hate it. especially since gauss/ppc was linked for ghost heat which largely removed the need for gauss chargeup, the stated purpose of which was to help desync gauss and ppc projectiles. but the ghost heat linkage largely discourages that anyway.

My proposal is a good compromise between allowing gauss to snapshot while still rewarding you for charging it. It makes charging gauss a tactical choice instead of an impediment. its the carrot approach instead of the stick approach.

Edited by Khobai, 28 May 2021 - 12:35 PM.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Khobai, on 28 May 2021 - 12:17 PM, said:

AC10 doesnt do 15 damage or have nearly the range of a gauss rifle.

Which has other people have said, is part of the balance.

Quote

nice try though. but the reality is the AC10 does not come close to filling the role of the gauss rifle outside of your wonderful imagination.

Did I say AC/10s ever did? You asked for gauss being able to snap shot and I presented the weapon who's gimmick is being PPFLD with no delay.

Quote

And as a sniper weapon the gauss rifle should definitely be able to snap fire.

In most games sniper weapons have some kind of disadvantage for their superior range, the charge up mechanic hampers (but doesn't prevent) your ability to use it in a brawl which gives ACs a niche of being more useful in brawling builds.

[Heavy Money]

There's nothing inherently wrong with a weapon being harder to use as a tradeoff for it being stronger than the alternatives in other ways.