35 replies to this topic

[Red Komrade]

Hello all, I started MWO recently and just finished the Cadet missions/Bonus that it gives to new players. Now I read that its good idea to first play in trial mechs to try different playstyles and then choosing a Mech to buy, I did that after 5-6 battles because I loved the idea of making a custm loadout.

I choose the Centurion as it looked (to me) kinda balanced overall and made a lot of modifications to it spent around 10m but gone to a build with 3 big laser and 2 medium ones + 1 srm. I played around 10 games with that build and it looked kinda ok although I disliked the idea of having to do timeouts to dissipate the heat and I felt like my damage output was below average overall.

Now after that I changed it altogether removed all lasers except 1 big and put a MRM 40 which took most of my slots + ammo for it and the difference was huge to say the least, I started doing at least double the damage that I was doing with the build before and recently managed to do highest dmg in the match all thanks that there is no cooldown period for the heat.

So main question is what I was doing wrong with lasers and are missiles so superior to them ? Also Ballistics and LRM playstyles are harder or easier than that ?

Also the game is really great + very generous with credits and rewards from missions so thats great and I am enjoing the game a lot, should have started it earlier Really great game.

[martian]

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

Hello all, I started MWO recently and just finished the Cadet missions/Bonus that it gives to new players.

Greetings!

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

Now I read that its good idea to first play in trial mechs to try different playstyles and then choosing a Mech to buy, I did that after 5-6 battles because I loved the idea of making a custm loadout.

Some Trial 'Mechs are quite good, some are mediocre and some of them are outright bad.

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

I choose the Centurion as it looked (to me) kinda balanced overall and made a lot of modifications to it spent around 10m but gone to a build with 3 big laser and 2 medium ones + 1 srm. I played around 10 games with that build and it looked kinda ok although I disliked the idea of having to do timeouts to dissipate the heat and I felt like my damage output was below average overall.

What model of Centurion do you have?

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

Now after that I changed it altogether removed all lasers except 1 big and put a MRM 40 which took most of my slots + ammo for it and the difference was huge to say the least, I started doing at least double the damage that I was doing with the build before and recently managed to do highest dmg in the match all thanks that there is no cooldown period for the heat.

MRMs are not bad for spamming missiles all over the enemy 'Mech, but they are inaccurate.

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

So main question is what I was doing wrong with lasers and are missiles so superior to them ?

Lasers work best on a 'Mech suitably outfitted to get the most of them. Well designed and used laserboat can be very effective.

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

Also Ballistics and LRM playstyles are harder or easier than that ?

It depends. Using ballistic weapons means that you must actually anticipate your enemy's movement. However, ballistic weapons are effective weapons producing relatively small amount of heat.

LRMs are generally described as an "easy mode", since all you have to do is to place circle over square while often being far from the enemy 'Mech.

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

Also the game is really great + very generous with credits and rewards from missions so thats great and I am enjoing the game a lot, should have started it earlier Really great game.

If I may suggest something, before you spend a lot of C-Bills or real cash on some 'Mech, it would be a good idea to ask in this section beforehand.

[Osulf]

Hi, welcome to the game. All the weapon types have pros and cons. Lasers don't run out of ammo but suffer more heat. Other weapon types can run out of ammo but cause less heat. Lasers benefit from mechs that have plenty of spare space and weight to load up with heat sinks. Some lasers also cause more damage for the heat cost than others, eg medium pulse lasers v medium lasers

[letir]

You have "skills" tab, which contain a lot of upgrades for 'Mech! Watch some videos to get better understanding of important skills.


Lasers are hot weapon, so you better pick 'Mech with "Heat" perks, buy double heatsinks and work your build and skills towards heat reduction.

For example, full laser builds look like this:
https://mech.nav-alp...514cb03e_WHM-6D
https://mech.nav-alp...#6ca46e23_EBJ-A

Literally everything packed with lasers and heatsinks.


MRMs are pretty noob-friendly with big alpha and moderate heat, esp. if you nab 'Mech with good "missile cooldown" quirks. They are innacurate and bad at targeting speific components, but some laser support can fix it. You can achieve even better results with jumpjets, blasting enemies over ridges and falling back to safety.

I recommend to try this MRM build with ECM, it's pretty strong:
https://mech.nav-alp...06e9fd9_WHM-4LL


Ballistic weapons are differs between standart AC/LBX (pretty reliable, low heat, can hammer opponent all day), Ultra AC (can double-tap for huge alpha-strike, but have bigger heat issues and can jam) and RAC (big machineguns with special mechanic). I think that ballistics are not particullary suited for a new player - they require more skill with aiming, and most powerful UACs and RACs coming with slew of issues, but they are powerful in specialized build.

[Elizander]

Lasers 'pulse' to deal damage, meaning in the duration of the beam, there are intervals when damage is applied. If you can't keep the laser on the target for the full burn then you will lose on damage. On the plus side, lasers can be aimed better than MRMs or missiles in general because you direct where the damage goes and there is no projectile travel time. Dealing more damage with missiles means you also spread your damage across the entire enemy mech. This might make it difficult to get actual kills sometimes, but the game will reward you for dealing more damage so it's not a big issue. If you are happy with missiles then go with that, just note that they can be a little frustrating to use when you actually want something dead really fast due to the spread nature of their damage.

Edited by Elizander, 30 December 2020 - 11:59 AM.

[Red Komrade]

Thanks for all the helpful replies, now I see that I probably didnt do lasers justice with bad specs on my Mech.

martian, on 30 December 2020 - 07:54 AM, said:

What model of Centurion do you have?

CN9-AL My choice was a bit random tbh on the model as I didnt get much on the differences between them. As you said probably should have asked here a bit before using most of my C-bills. Thing is there are just so many different models over all the mechs and then the categories so was a bit lost. Also I noticed my Centurion is a bit slow compared to other mediums or maybe its one of the settings but I guess will read about the stats and differences between them.

Thx for the build examples letir and nice site that you linked, now wont need to spend C-bills to try making builds

So with all the different weapon types its better to specialize a Mech for a certain one role and try to maximize its potential ?
Also its better to take different range weapons or try to maximize your firepower in a certain engagement range ?

[Gagis]

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 03:11 PM, said:

So with all the different weapon types its better to specialize a Mech for a certain one role and try to maximize its potential ?
Also its better to take different range weapons or try to maximize your firepower in a certain engagement range ?

Maximizing synergy for one role and one range is optimal.

On the centurion I would probably try something like this, to take advantage of the extra missile cooldown and velocity it gets:
https://mech.nav-alp...daedaec3_CN9-AL
Swap weapons for MRM40+MRM20 instead of 30+30 if you want to add a bit more ammo, a bit more armour or a bit larger engine.

Edited by Gagis, 30 December 2020 - 03:39 PM.

[martian]

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 03:11 PM, said:

CN9-AL My choice was a bit random tbh on the model as I didnt get much on the differences between them. As you said probably should have asked here a bit before using most of my C-bills. Thing is there are just so many different models over all the mechs and then the categories so was a bit lost. Also I noticed my Centurion is a bit slow compared to other mediums or maybe its one of the settings but I guess will read about the stats and differences between them.

Well, Centurion is not the best 'Mech in the game, but it is not the worst one.

There are two approaches what to do with the CN9-AL:
a) use it as an energy boat
A pair of PPCs or Large Pulse Lasers or Large Lasers in the right arm and a pair of Medium Lasers in the center torso. LPLs are heavier, but it is easier to keep them on your target.
Standard or Light Engine, depending on what you have available. Upgrade to Endo-steel and Double Heat Sinks when you have enough C-Bills.

b ) use it as MRM boat
Instead of the one Large Laser try two Medium Lasers in the center torso, if you want some energy reserve. Use some 50-60 MRMs with at least 4 tons of ammo (if not more).
Standard or Light Engine, depending on what you have available. Upgrade to Endo-steel and Double Heat Sinks when you have enough C-Bills.

Or you can ignore all energy hardpoints and add more MRM ammo.

Fine-tune your loadout according to what you have available.

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 03:11 PM, said:

So with all the different weapon types its better to specialize a Mech for a certain one role and try to maximize its potential ?

I think that usually it is better.

Red Komrade, on 30 December 2020 - 03:11 PM, said:

Also its better to take different range weapons or try to maximize your firepower in a certain engagement range ?

Even if your 'Mech can have many hardpoints for all three main types of weapons, you do not have to fill all those hardpoints. I would say that it is a good idea to prepare your 'Mech for one role and one range and then try to keep your 'Mech in the optimal range for its weapons during the mission.

By the way, do you know that you can claim a pair of free 'Mechs?

Edited by martian, 30 December 2020 - 11:31 PM.

[Red Komrade]

Gagis, on 30 December 2020 - 03:38 PM, said:

Swap weapons for MRM40+MRM20 instead of 30+30 if you want to add a bit more ammo, a bit more armour or a bit larger engine.

Yeah I thought of that but cannot do it , they dont fit or dont add neither 40+20 or 30+30 no idea why. The build you linked looks great for sure, maxed out potential.

martian, on 30 December 2020 - 11:29 PM, said:

Well, Centurion is not the best 'Mech in the game, but it is not the worst one. There are two approaches what to do with the CN9-AL: a) use it as an energy boat A pair of PPCs or Large Pulse Lasers or Large Lasers in the right arm and a pair of Medium Lasers in the center torso. LPLs are heavier, but it is easier to keep them on your target. Standard or Light Engine, depending on what you have available. Upgrade to Endo-steel and Double Heat Sinks when you have enough C-Bills. b ) use it as MRM boat Instead of the one Large Laser try two Medium Lasers in the center torso, if you want some energy reserve. Use some 50-60 MRMs with at least 4 tons of ammo (if not more). Standard or Light Engine, depending on what you have available. Upgrade to Endo-steel and Double Heat Sinks when you have enough C-Bills. Or you can ignore all energy hardpoints and add more MRM ammo. Fine-tune your loadout according to what you have available. I think that usually it is better. Even if your 'Mech can have many hardpoints for all three main types of weapons, you do not have to fill all those hardpoints. I would say that it is a good idea to prepare your 'Mech for one role and one range and then try to keep your 'Mech in the optimal range for its weapons during the mission. By the way, do you know that you can claim a pair of free 'Mechs?

As I said my choice of Centurion was a bit random, tried to make a choice from what in my point of view was balanced playstyle. I would love some other mech recommendations for new players but will try to learn the game more before I spend the rest of my C-bills.

Yeah I also claimed the free mechs, I tried the medium and it is almost twice faster than Centurion lol. Game is very generous with current events at least, both lootbags and the freemechs + premium time. Only sad thing is I wont be able to claim all lootbags as I joined kinda late but all is good as these events let me spend millions of C-bills for mistakes xD

I will try to link a screenshot of my Centurion build btw so maybe it will be easier to explain why I cannot mount the 30+30 or the mistakes I did

https://postimg.cc/NKBsnvWR

Great game once again, the company should promote it more for sure.

[Gagis]

Yours has Standard Structrure. Using Endo Steel frees up a lot of mass.

[martian]

Red Komrade, on 31 December 2020 - 03:47 AM, said:

Yeah I thought of that but cannot do it , they dont fit or dont add neither 40+20 or 30+30 no idea why. The build you linked looks great for sure, maxed out potential.
...
I will try to link a screenshot of my Centurion build btw so maybe it will be easier to explain why I cannot mount the 30+30 or the mistakes I did

1. Always use Endo-Steel instead of Ferro-fibrous armor. ES offers more free tonnage. 99% of 'Mechs need Double Heat Sinks too.



2. Engine.
a) Standard Engine has slots in the center torso only.
b ) Light Fusion Engine has center torso slots and two slots in the left torso and two slots in the right torso, but it is lighter than the Standard Fusion Engine.
c) Extra-light Fusion Engine needs slots in the center torso and three slots in the left torso and three slots in the right torso. It is the lightest off all three engine types, but it takes up the most space.

Note that your 'Mech dies if it loses three engine slots. Thus, if an XL-engined 'Mech loses one of its side torsos, it dies. Standard- and Light-engined 'Mechs survive such situation.



3. Note that now both missile racks fit, thanks the smaller Light Engine.



4. Let's equip some ammo.



5. Using Ferro-fibrous Armor would give us another free ton to pay with. However, you would need 14 slots to equip it.



6. As you can see, Ferro-fibrous Armor takes up almost all remaining empty slots.



7. Fine-tune some armor if you wish, save the 'Mech and you are good to go.

[Gagis]

Oh, and you can export and import those build codes from mechdb links.

[Red Komrade]

My friends you are awesome, now my Centurion is making the battles more fun with medium range missile barrages o7 Also I became more tanky using the mostly armored arms as shields as they dont have that much on them so can lose them and ofc the engine change so I dont die as fast now.
Yeah guys thanks for that tutorial on arming the Mech would be lost a lot more and would spend more C-bills failing to do any correct changes. Are there other mechs as easy to play like Cent for new players and preferably on other class ?

[martian]

Red Komrade, on 01 January 2021 - 02:23 AM, said:

My friends you are awesome, now my Centurion is making the battles more fun with medium range missile barrages o7 Also I became more tanky using the mostly armored arms as shields as they dont have that much on them so can lose them and ofc the engine change so I dont die as fast now.
Yeah guys thanks for that tutorial on arming the Mech would be lost a lot more and would spend more C-bills failing to do any correct changes. Are there other mechs as easy to play like Cent for new players and preferably on other class ?

Do you have some idea what armament would you like to use? MRMs or other missiles again, ballistic weapons, energy weapons?

Note that Clan OmniMechs offer wider customizability in some respects than standard BattleMechs, but they are more restricted on other respects. Essentially, their locations such as side torsos or arms can be replaced with different OmniPods with different hardpoints. You do not like that your 'Mech's right arm has missile harpoint? Replace it with three energy hardpoints. Etc.

However, certain parts of OmniMech are locked and cannot be changed.

What weight class? Light, medium, heavy or Assault?

[Red Komrade]

Yeah preferable same kind of setup until I get familiariazed with the game more so MRMs or maybe ballistics and I would love to try an Assault Mech because I noticed in my Centurion I mostly fight with other Assaults on my side and enemy side. Also last thing I find it kinda hard to defend against enemy LRM attacks effectively, I do take cover behind buildings and walls when I can but some maps are more open than others and I find it hard to do that. The anti missile laser I have on cent while it does intercept some the number of them is just very high and I get smacked hard anyway on the open maps.

[letir]

Red Komrade, on 01 January 2021 - 04:53 AM, said:

Yeah preferable same kind of setup until I get familiariazed with the game more so MRMs or maybe ballistics and I would love to try an Assault Mech because I noticed in my Centurion I mostly fight with other Assaults on my side and enemy side. Also last thing I find it kinda hard to defend against enemy LRM attacks effectively, I do take cover behind buildings and walls when I can but some maps are more open than others and I find it hard to do that. The anti missile laser I have on cent while it does intercept some the number of them is just very high and I get smacked hard anyway on the open maps.

Heavies:
https://mech.nav-alp...1f08a79_QKD-IV4 - king of MRM, huge quirks, great mobility. Being a hero 'Mech is the only downside.
https://mech.nav-alp...e9342d7f_RGH-1B - similar non-hero build, much less agile and without jumpjets, but durable and powerful still.
https://mech.nav-alp...06e9fd9_WHM-4LL - MRM, lasers, ECM against missles.
https://mech.nav-alp...73d7afc_MAD-9MS - big MRMs, ECM, good profile for tanking.

Assaults:
https://mech.nav-alp...0e14727_STK-3FB
https://mech.nav-alp...32690a42_STK-3H
https://mech.nav-alp...044c2fe_MAD-4HP
https://mech.nav-alp...5e40ea1_MAD-4HP
https://mech.nav-alp...#01bc711e_AS7-D
https://mech.nav-alp...87f4aa7_CP-10-Q

[Gagis]

MRMs spread their damage so much that their effectiveness plateaus pretty fast. It would be a good idea to experiment with other weapon types with their next mech.

BAS-A With a jump jet and ECM in CT and an UAC10 and 3 UAC5s on the shoulders ought to work.

[ImperialKnight]

rather than just weapon types, it's more valuable to also know about how damage is dealt by different weapon systems.

Pinpoint VS Spread: pinpoint brings all the damage to a point, weapons like Lasers/Gauss Rifle/ACs are pinpoint weapons. Spread weapons spread the damage over a large area. SRMs/MRMs/LBXs and uniquely, Clan PPCs, are spread weapons.

Front Loaded Damaged (FLD) VS Damage over Time (DoT): FLD weapons deals all the damage up front in one load, weapons like SRMs, LBXs, IS ACs, IS LRMs are FLD weapons. They are generally considered better than DoT weapons as they reduce face time with the enemy. DoT weapons are weapons like Lasers, MRMs, Clan LRMs, Clan ACs. Although Laser DoT is slightly different from projectile DoT weapons, as they deal damage in regular "ticks", while DoT ACs deal damage per projectile. e.g. IS UAC10 deals damage over 2 shots of 5 damage each. So Lasers have the advantage of easily being able to "correct" your shot.

Projectile vs Hitscan: Projective weapons have particles that have travel time. So you need to lead moving targets. Hitscan weapons deal their damage instantly to where the reticle is pointed. Lasers and MGs are hitscan, almost everything else are projectiles.

All weapons are combinations of the above characteristics, e.g. SRMs/LBXs are Projectile Front Loaded Spread damage

PPFLD weapons are generally considered better, but some weapon systems have their use in critical hits against unarmored components. LBXs and MGs are considered great for critical seeking, and are considered "finisher" weapons. Lasers are good balanced weapons for peeling armor and crit seeking, at the cost of increased face time.

Projectile Speed and Weapon Convergence are the next important concepts to learn when building a mech. But that's beyond the topic of this thread

[Red Komrade]

Thanks for the suggestions and explanation, shows that the game is a lot more complex actually than it seems at first.

I gone and bought + armed a STK-3H that letir suggested and have a blast with it for now. I made a little bit different loadout but the effectiveness looks good enough, 2x MRM 40 and 4x ER lasers so they have more or less the same range but at most can fire them all twice before overheat. First couple of games got mauled hard thx to the tall profile of Assault mechs I guess but got used peeking from hulldown positioning and trading shots managed to do 1k+ dmg in 2 battles also managed to go down in seconds by 2 lights mechs who I couldnt target in closer range xD

ImperialKnight, on 01 January 2021 - 08:26 PM, said:

rather than just weapon types, it's more valuable to also know about how damage is dealt by different weapon systems.

Pinpoint VS Spread: pinpoint brings all the damage to a point, weapons like Lasers/Gauss Rifle/ACs are pinpoint weapons. Spread weapons spread the damage over a large area. SRMs/MRMs/LBXs and uniquely, Clan PPCs, are spread weapons.

Front Loaded Damaged (FLD) VS Damage over Time (DoT): FLD weapons deals all the damage up front in one load, weapons like SRMs, LBXs, IS ACs, IS LRMs are FLD weapons. They are generally considered better than DoT weapons as they reduce face time with the enemy. DoT weapons are weapons like Lasers, MRMs, Clan LRMs, Clan ACs. Although Laser DoT is slightly different from projectile DoT weapons, as they deal damage in regular "ticks", while DoT ACs deal damage per projectile. e.g. IS UAC10 deals damage over 2 shots of 5 damage each. So Lasers have the advantage of easily being able to "correct" your shot.

Projectile vs Hitscan: Projective weapons have particles that have travel time. So you need to lead moving targets. Hitscan weapons deal their damage instantly to where the reticle is pointed. Lasers and MGs are hitscan, almost everything else are projectiles.

All weapons are combinations of the above characteristics, e.g. SRMs/LBXs are Projectile Front Loaded Spread damage

PPFLD weapons are generally considered better, but some weapon systems have their use in critical hits against unarmored components. LBXs and MGs are considered great for critical seeking, and are considered "finisher" weapons. Lasers are good balanced weapons for peeling armor and crit seeking, at the cost of increased face time.

Projectile Speed and Weapon Convergence are the next important concepts to learn when building a mech. But that's beyond the topic of this thread

Thank you for the lenghty explanation, looks like there are more different weapons for the categories. I kinda got the idea of spread weapons and pinpoint weapons, the problem for me was that I had issues trageting certain parts of enemies at medium to long range battles thats why I gone with MRMs as they were easier for me to use than lasers.

I just got STALKER so used half of my C-bills on it (17m). I will play kinda a lot of battles especially now that have premium time thanks to event so will be easier to save up again. But I am open ofc if there are some builds with ballistics or other weapons that are easier to use for new players., and something that preferrably dont overheat after 2nd shot, something that I managed with my failbuilds

[letir]

You need to use skill trees, coolshots and manage heat in general. Big builds pay for damage potential in other places. Double MRM launchers are much more manageable without lasers, idea to use additional weapons only in the crucial situation. Laser addition to the many builds work just like that - a bit of hot extra,

If you don't feeling watching the heat, go ballistic:
https://mech.nav-alp...39c3853a_BSW-X2
https://mech.nav-alp...ac8cf63e_BSW-X2
https://mech.nav-alp...8d7985b9_WHM-6R

Jams will be annoying, but damage potential well worth it:
https://mech.nav-alp...9380cc1d_BSW-HR
https://mech.nav-alp...bf7d3191_WHM-6R
https://mech.nav-alp...cbfcecf_HBK-IIC
https://mech.nav-alp...#ab2759f0_HMN-B

RACs are not newbie-friendly weapons, but they pumping a lot of damage in the short amount of time:
https://mech.nav-alp...9a1e5c08_BSW-X1
https://mech.nav-alp...d553f48f_BSW-P2
https://mech.nav-alp...1767c82_CHP-1NB
https://mech.nav-alp...19355e62_WHM-6R