4 replies to this topic

[Cichol Balor]

Add Triple strength myomere to non-masc IS mechs.

Not only does it fit the timeline but it would be an interesting game mechanic and be a reason not to use endo on nearly all IS mechs. The Melee mechanic could just be ignored I feel the added speed would be enough. This would probably be most beneficial to poking and brawling mechs as it would let you get in and around cover much better as well as having use on some lights built for downing assaults.

[Mister Bob Dobalina]

As with any new tech, it's introduction should be accompanied by some limiting factors to avoid it getting op. I would suggest:

• TSMs are only operating in the top 25% of the heatscale, maybe even only fully in the red zone. As the heat activating factor of the TSMs are backed up by lore, that would be legit.
  
• TSM should take +1 slot in any area, maybe even +2 in extremities.

And don't throw the towel on melee too soon. It could be made (possibly) without having to completely reinvent the game:

Hurbie, on 18 March 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

Esteemed Ladies and Gentlemen.

I am here before you to make the case for the HCT-3F Hatchetman to be introduced into the MWO Universe.

The Hatchetman was, at its roll out in 3023, the first new Inner Sphere Mech design in a century. It featured revolutionary design choices, even after Clan standards: A melee weapon and a full cockpit ejection system. All in all, it was a very well rounded medium platform even capable engaging air units thanks to his targeting system.

During the years, the Hatchetman has seen many iterations in variants equipped with new weapon systems (e.g. Rotary ACs, MRMs etc.) or ECM versions (HTC-6D). Aside legendary engagements like the destruction of the Falcon Guard by Kai Allard Liao, the Hatchetman and his trademark iconic design had clearly left its mark.

It is clear, that the introduction of a Mech like the Hatchetman would be precedence for the addition of melee weapons in the first place. Nevertheless, it would be a significant addition to the variability of Mech choices. It would pave the way for formidable designs like the Axeman or the Hatamoto-Chi, to name a few at least.

Be aware that I do not propose this lightly as I know of the inherent problematic that has always been tied into direct kinetic engagement. Therefore, I have been thinking about how to introduce a hatchet / axe / sword into, and based on, the existing array of weaponry.


Consider this:

Let us treat the melee weapon like “just another weapon system” with a certain set of

• range (x meters)
  
• damage type (pinpoint, spread, ..)
  
• cooldown period (x seconds)
  
• charge up time (e.g. Gauss)

So here is my proposal shown after the example of the HCT-3F Hatchetman. The hatchet stands in for any other melee weapon in that case (Axe, Sword, Club, etc.)

• The hatchet takes 3 tons of weight and takes 3 slots.
  
• The hatchet forces lower arm and hand actuator and the required slot.
  
• No other weapon can be added to a weapon group as soon as the hatchet is added to it. In reverse, the hatchet cannot be added to a non-empty weapon group.
  
• The hatchet has a charge-up time and a trigger window comparable to a Gauss weapon.
  
• The hatchet has a long recharge time in the likes of a LRM20 / AC20 or even longer.
  
• The hatchet is aimed and targets with the crosshairs like any other weapon.
  
• The hatchet has a range of 30m with complete damage drop-off beyond.
  
• The hatchet creates pinpoint damage to the calculated impact point, following the same rules as for existing weaponry.
  
• The destruction of the hatchet would destroy the wielding arm as well, as its static stability would have to be deeply integrated into the arm in the first place.

An argument can be made for the amount of damage, such a weapon would inflict. Bare in mind that you carry a weapon with significant tonnage and requirement of slots (in the case of the HCT, the Hatchet weighs about 7% of the overall weight) and can only be used within a very thin margin of opportunity and only up close. So, high damage would be justifiable. Another area of argumentation regarding the damage is

• The speed of the Hatchetman at the time of the successful impact: Although it would be physically correct to include the objects own speed into the amount of kinetic energy transferred to the target (kinetic energy = mass x velocity squared), I would drop that for the sake of simplicity to make this better introducible into MWO.
  
• The weight of the Mech wielding the melee weapon. As stated before, the weight has even less influence on the kinetic energy transferred, than the speed has. On the other hand, bigger Mechs wield bigger weapons. While the Hatchetmans Hatchet weighs 3t, the Axemans Axe weighs 5t. If we assign a certain damage potential to the weight of the melee weapon, we have an indirect tie to the size of the Mech and could define 2t for Light Mechs and 7t-8t with Assault Mechs

Imagine the Hatchet being a extremely short ranged laser that weighs a lot, has a friggin charge-up and cooldown time and its use is shown by an awesome animation, beating the living crap out of an enemy Mech.

This would not create a massive change in the games basic and underlying mechanics (full kinematic engagements, kicking, punching etc.) as rather being melee light. It is clear, that such a change would require massive and probably foundation changing shifts and reprogramming, therefore I tried to create a way less invasive yet way more doable solution.

So, I close my argument for a relatively easy introduction of melee –ish weapons in general and the roll-out of the Hatchetman in particular.

Please let me know what you think about my thoughts on the matter.

Ad TSM into the mix and it could add a modifier to the dmg dealt of the melee weapon. Pure physical (aka kinetic) engagement I consider to be too complex as the currant damage model of MWO is already complex enough and pushing the boundries of the current engine. But who knows, maybe a transfer to the Mechwarrior 5 engine is in the works.

[Cichol Balor]

It should probably kick on at 64% heat seeing as it kicks in the TT at +9 and 14 is the first shutdown check. Though seeing as this is not table top having it simply become more and more effective as heat increases would probably be the best way to do it.

So give it a base speed increase then at 1% heat give 1% of that base. This would mean exceeding 100% would give you an increase over the base. I'm not concerned with the melee aspect simply because TSM would have plenty of benefits on its own with just the added mobility.

[Mister Bob Dobalina]

I am just concerned a bit as to what the upper end of the speed curve might be the limits of the game engine. Russ Bullock on multiple occasions mentioned the reason for the Dasher/Firemoth not being able to be in the game so far is the fact, that with 216 kp/h MASC speed, it would break the game engine and not register relative ground movement correctly and also not animate properly anymore. So a full speed LCT with would have to top out just shy of that limit and then the acceleration curve adjusted downwards.

Other than that I think the introduction of TSMs alongside Melee Light and Inferno Missiles could be some rather low hanging fruit changes that are based on actually already existing game mechanics.

Edited by Hurbie, 21 January 2021 - 11:28 PM.

[Cichol Balor]

It could just be given the same value as MASC seeing as it could not be mounted on those mechs this should keep it from exceeding the engines cap.

Ultimately those numbers would come down to PGI and play tested feed back but I do think the base mechanic should not be hard to implement and wouldn't break IS considering the need to maintain high heat levels to get the bonus.

can you think of inherent balance issues that could come with it. Not counting if the base value was set to high. For one I have not played FP since PGI removed all incentive to play it so I'm not sure how the IS/clan balance would play out. I don't feel like it would give an overwhelming advantage or even change the meta all that much but I'm just one guy.