37 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

since jump jets were on the list can we get a mechanics change in addition to buffs?

essentially you can use your torso pitch to control jump direction. jump with torso level and you go straight up, but if you pitch down you vector your jets forward and move forward, pitch up and you can do the same in reverse or stop your forward momentum. same as you would on an rc helicopter or drone. thus you can use jump jets the battletech way and use it to cover horizontal distances quickly. mwo's jump jets are only useful for poptarting and climbing and so this would add a lot of versatility to them.

if skill tree simplification is also a thing, you can remove the vectoring and altitude nodes, and only bother with thrust and burn time nodes. then those nodes could be merged into either ops or mobility.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 March 2021 - 10:36 PM.

[FupDup]

Maybe this could be a thing for Improved Jump Jets, on the 0.00000000000000001% chance that we ever get more NuTech™ (because other than that IDK how we'd differentiate them from regular JJs).

[The pessimistic optimist]

LordNothing, on 04 February 2021 - 02:13 PM, said:

since jump jets were on the list can we get a mechanics change in addition to buffs?

essentially you can use your torso pitch to control jump direction. jump with torso level and you go straight up, but if you pitch down you vector your jets forward and move forward, pitch up and you can do the same in reverse or stop your forward momentum. same as you would on an rc helicopter or drone. thus you can use jump jets the battletech way and use it to cover horizontal distances quickly. mwo's jump jets are only useful for poptarting and climbing and so this would add a lot of versatility to them.

if skill tree simplification is also a thing, you can remove the vectoring and altitude nodes, and only bother with thrust and burn time nodes. then those nodes could be merged into either ops or mobility.

This sounds cool on paper but I see how there might be a balancing issue and super power up jump jet mechs to a point were none jump jet mechs would not be worth taking.

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 02:18 PM.

[FupDup]

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 02:17 PM, said:

This sounds cool on paper but I see how there might be balancing issues and super power up jump jet mechs to a point were none jump jet mechs would not be worth taking.

I solved this up above by tying this mechanic to Improved JJs rather than regular ones. IJJs take up double the tonnage of normal ones so it could really eat into your loadout if you wanted to turn yourself into a rocket ship.

[LordNothing]

i think it would just apply to your normal jump jets. because thats the way they are supposed to work. i dont think doing it the mechwarrior 2 way, where you have 5-way control would work with the way the default controls are laid out. living legends lets you control pitch and roll, though the controls are a bit wonky to figure out. but simple pitch is probably all you need for the proper battletech implementation.

[LordNothing]

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 02:17 PM, said:

This sounds cool on paper but I see how there might be a balancing issue and super power up jump jet mechs to a point were none jump jet mechs would not be worth taking.

problem is its the other way around right now. unless its a clan omnimech with fixed jets, i don't really use them. the tonnage and node investment they currently require is just too damn expensive for what they do. also horizontal jumping wouldnt increase their burn time or thrust or anything. and you wouldnt be able to gain altitude while moving horizontally at maximum speed, though you could trade one for the other as needed. you would also typically need to gain some altitude before applying forward thrust unless you jumped off a high perch or something.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 February 2021 - 02:30 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 04 February 2021 - 02:19 PM, said:

I solved this up above by tying this mechanic to Improved JJs rather than regular ones. IJJs take up double the tonnage of normal ones so it could really eat into your loadout if you wanted to turn yourself into a rocket ship.

Do we really want to power up the jump sniper play style more? That's another problem jump sniping is already strong and this might break that as well

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 02:31 PM.

[FupDup]

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 02:30 PM, said:

Do we really want to power up the jump sniper play style more? That's another problem jump sniping is already strong and this might break that as well

Like I said, double tonnage. Mechlab is a zero-sum game so you're gonna have to give up something to mount enough of them to have cray-cray mobility.

[LordNothing]

part of the reason that its a jump sniper tool is thats all you can really use it for, other than climbing.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 04 February 2021 - 02:34 PM, said:

Like I said, double tonnage. Mechlab is a zero-sum game so you're gonna have to give up something to mount enough of them to have cray-cray mobility.

The reason people jump snipe is its a low risk play style because you limited your exposure. You could strip enough armor off say the arms if there are no weapons have no effect on the builds survivability. Even if heavier it might break the jump sniping

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 02:41 PM.

[FupDup]

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 02:40 PM, said:

The reason people jump snipe is its a low risk play style because you limited your exposure. You could strip enough armor off say the arms if there are no weapons have no effect on the builds survivability.

People already strip their arms with current JJ mechanics.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 04 February 2021 - 02:41 PM, said:

People already strip their arms with current JJ mechanics.

How much 50% or less?

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 02:45 PM.

[FupDup]

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 02:45 PM, said:

How much 50%

What I'm saying is that peoples' arm-stripping habits are not going to change based on JJ mechanics. People without JJs strip their arms too and they have no stake in this debate. Because their arms are already stripped with current JJs, they can't use that as a means to free up tonnage for double-weight Improved JJs. They'd have to strip something else.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 04 February 2021 - 02:47 PM, said:

What I'm saying is that peoples' arm-stripping habits are not going to change based on JJ mechanics. People without JJs strip their arms too and they have no stake in this debate. Because their arms are already stripped with current JJs, they can't use that as a means to free up tonnage for double-weight Improved JJs. They'd have to strip something else.

So if someone do the arm armor stripping how much do most people take off most of the time?

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 02:50 PM.

[FupDup]

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 02:50 PM, said:

So if someone do the arm armor stripping how much do most people take off most of the time?

That depends on the preferences of the individual as well as how useful the arms are as shields. I usually go around 10 armor or less on weaponless arms unless I've got tonnage to spare and not much else to spend it on.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 04 February 2021 - 02:52 PM, said:

That depends on the preferences of the individual as well as how useful the arms are as shields. I usually go around 10 armor or less on weaponless arms unless I've got tonnage to spare and not much else to spend it on.

OK what about omi mechs with fixxed jump jets? Do yea want indirectly nerf those and make the none omi even better? None omi clan battlemechs already out class most omi mechs this will ne another nail in the coffin for omi mechs

[VonBruinwald]

LordNothing, on 04 February 2021 - 02:13 PM, said:

since jump jets were on the list can we get a mechanics change in addition to buffs?

essentially you can use your torso pitch to control jump direction. jump with torso level and you go straight up, but if you pitch down you vector your jets forward and move forward, pitch up and you can do the same in reverse or stop your forward momentum. same as you would on an rc helicopter or drone. thus you can use jump jets the battletech way and use it to cover horizontal distances quickly. mwo's jump jets are only useful for poptarting and climbing and so this would add a lot of versatility to them.

if skill tree simplification is also a thing, you can remove the vectoring and altitude nodes, and only bother with thrust and burn time nodes. then those nodes could be merged into either ops or mobility.

Simple and works, I like it but I'm not sure how safe I feel. I run an Osiris at 153kph with jets.

153kph is just shy of glitch territory. If I'm running at that speed, angle forward and hit the jets there's a good chance I could end up going 200kph. I hate to think what that does for HSR, cheat detection and potential lag warping.

Fun? Yes! Safe, maybe not.

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 02:57 PM, said:

OK what about omi mechs with fixxed jump jets? Do yea want indirectly nerf those and make the none omi even better? None omi clan battlemechs already out class most omi mechs this will ne another nail in the coffin for omi mechs

New (hero) omnis that have improved jets, that's a win for PGI.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 04 February 2021 - 03:20 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 04 February 2021 - 03:19 PM, said:

Simple and works, I like it but I'm not sure how safe I feel. I run an Osiris at 153kph with jets.

153kph is just shy of glitch territory. If I'm running at that speed, angle forward and hit the jets there's a good chance I could end up going 200kph. I hate to think what that does for HSR, cheat detection and potential lag warping.

Fun? Yes! Safe, maybe not.



New (hero) omnis that have improved jets, that's a win for PGI.

I can hear the screams of pay to win already

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 03:23 PM.

[FupDup]

VonBruinwald, on 04 February 2021 - 03:19 PM, said:

New (hero) omnis that have improved jets, that's a win for PGI.

PGI's been pretty adamant about keeping Omni restrictions, so that's a non-starter.

There might be some Omnis that come with IJJs. I'm scouring Sarna and so far found a few:
-Flamberge (year 3077)
-Hierofalcon (3148)
-Wendigo (3135)
-Deimos (3085)

Probably also variants for existing Omnis that have them. So far found the Nova Cat F and Cougar X.

Edited by FupDup, 04 February 2021 - 03:32 PM.

[FupDup]

Oh, and also I just remembered that IJJs are 2 slots in size in addition to being twice as heavy as regular jets. So yeah you're gonna have to make some sacrifices.

Edited by FupDup, 04 February 2021 - 03:39 PM.