104 replies to this topic

[Ialdabaoth]

There's quite a few weapons and equipment that can be added without any real changes to the code base:

Inner Sphere Weapons & Equipment
* X Pulse Lasers - these are just Inner Sphere pulse lasers that have longer range in exchange for more heat.

* Heavy Flamer - this is just a Flamer with slightly longer range, double damage, and twice the mass.

* Plasma Rifle - these are just long-range, high-damage Flamers that require ammunition.

* PPC Capacitors - simply add a second version of each Inner Sphere PPC (with "+Capacitor" in the name), which is 1 ton and 1 crit larger, deals +5 damage, has 20% more cooldown, and a "Gauss Rifle" style charge-up (ideally linked to the existing GR charge reduction skill tree), with the LPPC+C matching the LGR charge time, the PPC+C and ERPPC+C matching the GR charge time, and the HPPC+C matching the HGR charge time.

* Light AC/2 and Light AC/5 - these are just shorter-range versions of the standard AC/2 and AC/5, with less tonnage and crits. (Balance probably requires that their cooldown be increased slightly.)

* Improved NARC - this is a heavier NARC launcher with a vastly extended range and effect time.

* Extended LRM - heavier LRM launchers with an increased maximum range (and also an increased minimum range)

* Bloodhound Active Probe - this is a slightly larger Beagle Probe with double range, that effectively counts as two ECCM devices coming from a single 'mech.

* Improved Jump Jets are just Jump Jets that are twice as heavy, take up 2 crits each, and give 150% thrust compared to standard JJ's.

* Endo-Composite Internal Structure - this is basically the Light Ferro Fibrous equivalent for Endo Steel; it gives half the weight savings for half the critical spaces.

* Composite Internal Structure - this is just like Endo Steel, but takes up no space; instead, the total Structure of each component is halved.

* Compact Heat Sinks - these are identical to Double Heat Sinks, but instead of taking up 1 ton and 3 spaces, they take up 1 space and 3 tons.

Clan Weapons & Equipment
* Extended Range Pulse Lasers - this is just the Clan's equivalent of the Inner Sphere X-Pulse Lasers (although they tend to slightly increase tonnage and/or crits, in addition to heat).

* Plasma Cannon - these are just long-range Flamers that require ammunition.

* Light Autocannon/2, Light Autocannon/4 and Light Autocannon/8 - this is the Clan's equivalent of the IS Light Autocannon (note: Battletech canon lists these as "Protomech Autocannon", but they are explicitly mountable on Battlemechs)

* Rotary Autocannon/2, Rotary Autocannon/5 - these are Clan equivalents of the Inner Sphere Rotary Autocannon; they are slightly bulkier but have much longer ranges.

* Watchdog EW Suite - This is a Clan ECM Suite which can perform ECM and ECCM simultaneously.

* Improved Jump Jets (same as Inner Sphere).

* Composite Internal Structure (same as Inner Sphere).

* Compact Heat Sinks (same as Inner Sphere).

Some of these weapon systems might require actual coding, but a large number of them (X-Pulse/ER Pulse Lasers, Light Autocannon, Extended LRM, I-NARC) definitely wouldn't. And a bunch of new weapons and equipment would certainly revitalize the game!

[The6thMessenger]

Yes please.

Light ACs are always welcome.

[PocketYoda]

Man i've wanted this stuff for years, it would shake the game up a lot and change the meta some what.. I am surprised you didn't add the Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles, Binary Lasers and Chemical Lasers...

M-pods lol

[Gagis]

Please no. Battletech game design is pretty much "The dials go up to ELEVEN" kind of power creep with no added gameplay value from clan invasion and onwards. Gets especially bad at this part of the timeline, with new tech being just old tech but with bigger numbers.

Edited by Gagis, 14 February 2021 - 03:00 AM.

[FupDup]

Plasma Rifles should be more like PPCs that give the enemy heat rather than Flamers IMO.


Light ACs should not have their cooldown increased under any circumstances because that eliminates their entire purpose. They exist to give low-tonnage mechs access to viable dakka. Nerfing their rate of fire makes them unable to compete with lasers and missiles at low tonnages. Make them burst-fire, slower velocity, higher heat, basically any other nerf than cooldown. They need DPS.

A light packing LACs should ideally pose a similar threat level as a laser-boating light, otherwise LACs just serve to buff existing powerful dakka heavies and assaults but give absolutely nothing to lights or mediums.


Compact Heatsinks are not equal to DHS. They have equal cooling as SHS and weigh 1.5 tons each (you can put two of them in one slot though). They are trash unless heavily buffed. Just buff SHS, so much easier. Also, Clans do not have access to them.


Extended LRMs have no use in this game because existing Lurms aren't even useful at those ranges.


Clans do not have Composite Structure either (they do have Endo-Comp though).

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2021 - 07:38 AM.

[FupDup]

You also missed a lot of really good weapons in this list.

Magshot: A tiny 0.5 ton IS Gauss Rifle that has a range of 270 meters. Great alternative to MGs that offers PPFLD but no crits and probably lower DPS.

AP Gauss Rifle: Clan equivalent of the Magshot, though it would probably fire like a tiny LB 3-X based on its description as a flechette weapon.

Chemical Lasers: Clan lasers with similar range, damage, and duration as IS standard lasers but they require ammo. They generate less heat than IS lasers.

Variable-Speed Pulse Lasers: IS weapon, basically laser ATMs (do more damage based on proximity). Also very very short duration.

Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifles: Clan ballistic MRMs.

Mech Mortars: Both factions, they're a missile weapon that shoots in a parabolic trajectory like a grenade launcher. If you've used the Long Tom in Mechwarrior 4, this would be mechanically similar except a lot smaller and lighter.

Thunderbolt Missiles: Bigger LRM launchers that shoot a single projectile instead of a swarm.

Binary Laser Cannon: Two Large Laser cores combined into one gun. Has a slightly less efficient damage/heat ratio than a pair of LL but it only needs one hardpoint and is 9 tons instead of 10. IS laser builds really need a way to pack more alpha per hardpoint and the Blazer is one of the few choices they have for this.

Multi-Missile Launchers: IS version of ATMs.

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2021 - 08:09 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Ialdabaoth said:

There's quite a few weapons and equipment that can be added without any real changes to the code base:

But to what actual gameplay benefit?

For example:

Ialdabaoth said:

* Heavy Flamer - this is just a Flamer with slightly longer range, double damage, and twice the mass.

The heavy flamer actually has ammo requirements and its weight isn't exactly twice the mass depending on which tech base you're looking at. But the true problem actually lies with the MWO flamer implementation: Even if you were to introduce (or even ignore) the ammo demands of TT heavy flamers the doubled flamer damage would still be negligible and the 25% encrased range ultimately not worth the weight or heating effect.

Ialdabaoth said:

* Plasma Rifle - these are just long-range, high-damage Flamers that require ammunition.

Since the plasma rifle actually is supposed to have a base damage that is equal to base PPC damage in terms of MWO we're not talking "just a long-range, high-damage Flamer" but PPCs that have ammo constraints, reduced range for the questionable benefit of causing flamer heat.

Ialdabaoth said:

* PPC Capacitors - simply add a second version of each Inner Sphere PPC (with "+Capacitor" in the name), which is 1 ton and 1 crit larger, deals +5 damage, has 20% more cooldown, and a "Gauss Rifle" style charge-up (ideally linked to the existing GR charge reduction skill tree), with the LPPC+C matching the LGR charge time, the PPC+C and ERPPC+C matching the GR charge time, and the HPPC+C matching the HGR charge time.

So more energy based front-loaded damage.

Ialdabaoth said:

* Improved NARC - this is a heavier NARC launcher with a vastly extended range and effect time.

Considering how often one actually sees standard NARC and how a vocal part of the player base is against the "no skill" missile systems I'd say that one would be a waste of time and resources

Ialdabaoth said:

* Extended LRM - heavier LRM launchers with an increased maximum range (and also an increased minimum range)

The "no skill" claims about auto-locking missiles and their IDF capabilities for normal LRM are good indicators on how well those would be received
I'm surprised that you didn't go for Thunder LRM there

Ialdabaoth said:

* Bloodhound Active Probe - this is a slightly larger Beagle Probe with double range, that effectively counts as two ECCM devices coming from a single 'mech.

Looking at the ECM as well as the Stealth Armor implementations in MWO I have this strong feeling that this wouldn't go over too well either

Ialdabaoth said:

* Improved Jump Jets are just Jump Jets that are twice as heavy, take up 2 crits each, and give 150% thrust compared to standard JJ's.

So 150% of "not really jump jets" at a doubled weight ... I guess that would end up being niche as welll

Ialdabaoth said:

* Compact Heat Sinks - these are identical to Double Heat Sinks, but instead of taking up 1 ton and 3 spaces, they take up 1 space and 3 tons.

How many IS mechs are there that are starved on crit space to degree where double heat sinks at triplle the weight with low crit slot requirements would become interesting?

Ialdabaoth said:

* Rotary Autocannon/2, Rotary Autocannon/5 - these are Clan equivalents of the Inner Sphere Rotary Autocannon; they are slightly bulkier but have much longer ranges.

One of the rare cases where Clan tech actually has higher crits slot demands ... but then again, the Clans typically have more crit space available ...

Ialdabaoth said:

* Watchdog EW Suite - This is a Clan ECM Suite which can perform ECM and ECCM simultaneously.

Just like with the Bloodhound this spells trouble. An ECM suite that provides the benefits of ECM plus Active Beagle at the weight of stanard ECM plus Light Beagle.

Ialdabaoth said:

And a bunch of new weapons and equipment would certainly revitalize the game!

Try to describe how that would actually "revitalize" the game and why you think that would be a certainty ...

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 14 February 2021 - 08:01 AM.

[FupDup]

Another note about Bloodhound Probe is that it can actually counter Stealth Armor.

[FupDup]

Also some other equipment that got missed:

Hardened Armor: Both factions, it takes up double the tonnage of normal armor but gives 50% damage reduction against all sources. Also applies a speed penalty.

Reactive Armor: Reduces damage from missiles and artillery. Has no effect on other weapon types (MW4 lied to you, it doesn't help against ballistics).

Reflective Armor: Reduces damage from energy weapons. No effect on other weapons.

Reinforced Structure: Double the weight, double the health, reduces incoming critical hit chance.

Ferro-Lamellor Armor: Reduces damage by 20% but is heavier than regular armor and takes up 12 slots. Only available to Clans.

Modular Armor: Adds 20 points of extra armor to the location where you mount it for 1 ton and 1 slot. Applies a speed penalty. Only one unit per location. Available to both factions but cannot be equipped in Omnipods (can only be hardwired to the base chassis). Since we already allow Omnis to add more armor I think we can just ignore the Omnipod restriction too (it would give IS Omnis a nice way to protect their fragile XL engines).

XL Gyro: Inner Sphere only, takes up twice the space of normal gyro but half the weight.

Compact Gyro: Inner Sphere only, takes up half the space of normal gyro but twice the weight. Great for squeezing in a few more slots and mounting more CT weapons.

Extra-Extra Light Engine (XXL): Half the tonnage of XL, twice the slots per side torso, generates some heat passively. Available for both factions.

Apollo Fire Control System: Artemis for MRMs, reducing spread.

Heavy Ferro-Fibrous Armor: IS armor that saves as much tonnage as Clan FF but takes up a whopping 21 slots. Very limited application but why not.

CASE II: Negates ammo/Gauss explosion damage entirely and can be mounted anywhere. Both factions get it but the IS version is heavier.

Artemis V: Adds 1.5 tons and 2 slots per launcher but provides a greater benefit than Artemis IV. Clan only.

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2021 - 09:29 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

FupDup, on 14 February 2021 - 07:35 AM, said:

Multi-Missile Launchers: IS version of ATMs.

They are nothing like ATMs.

[FupDup]

Monke-, on 14 February 2021 - 10:14 AM, said:

They are nothing like ATMs.

ATMs are a weapon system that could switch between multiple ammo types for flexibility. MWO simplified them into a single ammo type that just does more damage the closer you are.

MMLs also are made to switch ammo types based on which range you want to fight at, but since MWO doesn't have ammo switching...

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

FupDup, on 14 February 2021 - 10:17 AM, said:

ATMs are a weapon system that could switch between multiple ammo types for flexibility. MWO simplified them into a single ammo type that just does more damage the closer you are.

MMLs also are made to switch ammo types based on which range you want to fight at, but since MWO doesn't have ammo switching...

ATMs have ammo types that just change the range/damage values, MMLs don't switch between ammo types it switches between firing two separate missile types. SRM or LRM.

[FupDup]

Monke-, on 14 February 2021 - 10:41 AM, said:

ATMs have ammo types that just change the range/damage values, MMLs don't switch between ammo types it switches between firing two separate missile types. SRM or LRM.

The difference between LRM and SRM ammo is a trade of damage for range, just like ATM HE/STD/EX.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

FupDup, on 14 February 2021 - 10:43 AM, said:

The difference between LRM and SRM ammo is a trade of damage for range, just like ATM HE/STD/EX.

LRMs and SRMs act differently though mechanically while ATM ammo types use the same mechanics.

[FupDup]

Monke-, on 14 February 2021 - 10:49 AM, said:

LRMs and SRMs act differently though mechanically while ATM ammo types use the same mechanics.

Since MWO can't switch ammo types PGI would inevitably make both the LRM and SRM modes of MMLs have the same mechanics. Both would either lock-on like LRMs currently are or both would be dumbfired like SRMs currently are. I think the more likely outcome is the former.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

FupDup, on 14 February 2021 - 10:54 AM, said:

Since MWO can't switch ammo types PGI would inevitably make both the LRM and SRM modes of MMLs have the same mechanics. Both would either lock-on like LRMs currently are or both would be dumbfired like SRMs currently are. I think the more likely outcome is the former.

Then the solution is to simply not add it because it would never be properly represented in-game.

[FupDup]

Monke-, on 14 February 2021 - 10:55 AM, said:

Then the solution is to simply not add it because it would never be properly represented in-game.

You could say that about LBX and ATMs as well but here we are...

Also one could argue that current SRMs aren't even properly implemented since they're supposed to have guidance by default (Dead-Fire alternate ammo is dumbfire for 3 damage per missile). Technically, making MWO's MMLs lock-on would more accurately represent SRMs than our actual SRMs.

I'm personally not super enthusiastic about MMLs because MRMs are the only IS missiles I'll ever use from now on, so really the main reason to add them is just to open up chassis and variants that mount the weapon.

[Heavy Money]

A lot of these would just unnecessarily complicate things, but a lot would be fun. Lighter but shorter range versions of ballistic weapons would be very welcome.

[VonBruinwald]

FupDup, on 14 February 2021 - 10:54 AM, said:

Both would either lock-on like LRMs currently are or both would be dumbfired like SRMs currently are. I think the more likely outcome is the former.

Making MMLs a direct-firing-arc-only LRM (with 2 damage from 0-270m) would opens up playstyles.

Short range:

Hard-lock - Streak SRMs

Soft-lock - MMLs

No-lock - SRMs / MRMs

Medium range

Soft-lock - LRMs / MMLs

No-lock - MRMs

Long range (lock only)

Direct Fire - LRMs / MMLs

Indirect fire - LRMs

Streaks would be a better option for short range builds as all missiles hit and LRMs are better at long range due to indirect fire capabilities. MRMs and SRMS would offer superior accuracy vs. MMLs when firing without a lock due to a lack of arc.

(Hard-lock = All missiles hit, Soft-lock = Missiles have spread, in case it wasn't obvious)

Edited by VonBruinwald, 14 February 2021 - 12:08 PM.