62 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

Blood Rose, on 16 February 2021 - 11:30 AM, said:

It was and it removed the issue of pin point clickboom death. Back then armour was not doubled either, it worked well.

I fail to see how a AC-40 Catapult would be crippled by convergence when both weapon are not only close to each other but the centerline of mech.

Convergence crippling is meaningless in 2021. Many mechs have a wealth of hardpoints that are close to each other, close to centerline and or high mounted as well. Do imagine everyone running King Crabs?

[Blood Rose]

Spheroid, on 16 February 2021 - 12:01 PM, said:

I fail to see how a AC-40 Catapult would be crippled by convergence when both weapon are not only close to each other but the centerline of mech.

Convergence crippling is meaningless in 2021. Many mechs have a wealth of hardpoints that are close to each other, close to centerline and or high mounted as well. Do imagine everyone running King Crabs?

Typically they take time to converge, arms are further out but faster whereas torso hardpoints are in-close but take longer. And even an AC40 cat will need a second or so for its guns to align, moreso if the difference between the range it was last set at (the wall/bit of cover it was facing before stepping out) and the range to the target are fairly different.

[FupDup]

The game would push into a PPFLD meta again to minimize exposure. Weight class balance would suffer because less armored mechs would get vaporized immediately and usually lack the tonnage to run PPFLD builds effectively (or even at all in some cases).

Some people complain about the current meta favoring DPS too much, but the thing about a DPS meta is that PPFLD builds can still survive and even thrive when everyone on the red team has facetime dakka builds. The reverse is not true: DPS builds are almost unplayable during PPFLD metas. And as said above, PPFLD metas also hurt class balance because PPFLD weapons tend to be very heavy and these mechs would get vaporized very quickly.

DPS metas allow a far wider variety of mechs and weapons to be viable whereas PPFLD metas are extremely narrow and constricting.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 16 February 2021 - 01:24 PM, said:

The game would push into a PPFLD meta again to minimize exposure. Weight class balance would suffer because less armored mechs would get vaporized immediately and usually lack the tonnage to run PPFLD builds effectively (or even at all in some cases).

Some people complain about the current meta favoring DPS too much, but the thing about a DPS meta is that PPFLD builds can still survive and even thrive when everyone on the red team has facetime dakka builds. The reverse is not true: DPS builds are almost unplayable during PPFLD metas. And as said above, PPFLD metas also hurt class balance because PPFLD weapons tend to be very heavy and these mechs would get vaporized very quickly.

DPS metas allow a far wider variety of mechs and weapons to be viable whereas PPFLD metas are extremely narrow and constricting.

Or fat wads of ATMs or LRMs turn a mechs in a goo in 3 or 4 salvos sure people would love that

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 February 2021 - 01:29 PM.

[FupDup]

SirSmokes, on 16 February 2021 - 01:29 PM, said:

Or fat wads of ATMs or LRMs turn a mechs in a goo in 3 or 4 salvos sure people would love that

The ATM Veagle can already do that basically. With halved armor it would just get even wonkier.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 16 February 2021 - 01:31 PM, said:

The ATM Veagle can already do that basically. With halved armor it would just get even wonkier.

If armor was half that would pretty much take a mech to near death if not out right kill it

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 February 2021 - 01:37 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Spheroid, on 16 February 2021 - 10:59 AM, said:

This is possibly the dumbest thing that has ever been suggested on these forums and that is saying a lot.

I didn't suggested it, I asked what would happen.

[PocketYoda]

Time to kill is already too fast... way way too fast.. I don't want CoD, I want Battletech.. I'd still play this game and enjoy it if my weapons accuracy was randomised to hit weird locations because thats how Battletech did it.

I some how doubt the rest of the player base would though.. But yeah making this game a one hit kill crap like the rest of the garbage fps out there wouldn't do well in this.

The6thMessenger, on 16 February 2021 - 04:12 PM, said:

I didn't suggested it, I asked what would happen.

Customers would leave over night..

Edited by Samial, 16 February 2021 - 05:52 PM.

[FupDup]

Samial, on 16 February 2021 - 05:46 PM, said:

Time to kill is already too fast... way way too fast.. I don't want CoD, I want Battletech.. I'd still play this game and enjoy it if my weapons accuracy was randomised to hit weird locations because thats how Battletech did it.

I some how doubt the rest of the player base would though.. But yeah making this game a one hit kill crap like the rest of the garbage fps out there wouldn't do well in this.

I feel like the general TTK is actually in a good spot right now, but I may be biased because I tend to use mobile mediums and heavies with full survival tree. Some specific mechs may be too fragile, and some specific weapons may be outliers (looking at you ATM Veagle), but as a whole I feel like my robots survive as long as they ought to.

If by Battletech you mean the HBS game, then that game actually has a way faster TTK than MWO. You can make a laser vomit Black Knight that oneshots any heavy mech through the center torso with a called shot pretty consistently (or leaves it at very low HP) or make assaults that can oneshot/cripple other assaults.

For MWO's TTK, besides looking at underquirked mechs and crazy ATM boats I'd opt for adding more defensive tech like specialty armors, reinforced structure, and modular armor.

[PocketYoda]

FupDup, on 16 February 2021 - 05:53 PM, said:

I feel like the general TTK is actually in a good spot right now, but I may be biased because I tend to use mobile mediums and heavies with full survival tree. Some specific mechs may be too fragile, and some specific weapons may be outliers (looking at you ATM Veagle), but as a whole I feel like my robots survive as long as they ought to.

If by Battletech you mean the HBS game, then that game actually has a way faster TTK than MWO. You can make a laser vomit Black Knight that oneshots any heavy mech through the center torso with a called shot pretty consistently (or leaves it at very low HP) or make assaults that can oneshot/cripple other assaults.

For MWO's TTK, besides looking at underquirked mechs and crazy ATM boats I'd opt for adding more defensive tech like specialty armors, reinforced structure, and modular armor.

Time to kill is accurate for a fps mech game its not accurate for a mechwarrior game.. So its i guess up to where the customers are originally coming from and why they play MWO.

For me personally mechs should slug it out and burn down slowly.. FPS gamers just want some esport instant kill.

HBS Battletech is flawed as the pilots get better as the game progresses into gods.. Early game is much more realistic Battletech imo, That said HBS Battletech is a very different game to this.

Edited by Samial, 16 February 2021 - 05:59 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Being able to equip something that takes slots/tons to increase armor on a location would be very nice.

[FupDup]

Heavy Money, on 16 February 2021 - 05:56 PM, said:

Being able to equip something that takes slots/tons to increase armor on a location would be very nice.

It would definitely help mechs self-correct their own hitbox flaws on the fly instead of waiting for our Balancing Overlords™ to bestow their grace upon us. Might be a little too OP though because +20 armor for 1 ton and 1 slot is a damn good trade. Definitely gotta keep the speed penalty from TT and make it stack as you mount more Modular Armor units.

[PocketYoda]

FupDup, on 16 February 2021 - 05:59 PM, said:

It would definitely help mechs self-correct their own hitbox flaws on the fly instead of waiting for our Balancing Overlords™ to bestow their grace upon us. Might be a little too OP though because +20 armor for 1 ton and 1 slot is a damn good trade. Definitely gotta keep the speed penalty from TT and make it stack as you mount more Modular Armor units.

It might work if you lost speed and movement by adding it somewhat.

[FupDup]

I just want to take an Urbanmech, load it up with max Hardened Armor, Reinforced Structure, and Modular Armor everywhere. With a solitary Small Laser as my only weapon. I won't do any damage to the reds, but they won't be able to hurt me either. Raidboss Urbie meta let's gooooooooooo.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

oh Fine ,than 50% of the Own Team is dead in 2 Minutes and Nascar ending faster

Samial, on 16 February 2021 - 05:55 PM, said:

Time to kill is accurate for a fps mech game its not accurate for a mechwarrior game.. So its i guess up to where the customers are originally coming from and why they play MWO.

For me personally mechs should slug it out and burn down slowly.. FPS gamers just want some esport instant kill.

HBS Battletech is flawed as the pilots get better as the game progresses into gods.. Early game is much more realistic Battletech imo, That said HBS Battletech is a very different game to this.

its ok for a Mechwarrior game , the Problem was the TT (one round in reality only 10 Sec!!!!!) and 6 Rounds a Minute and not a Hour in TT Playtime,and the Trash novels with a 1 Minute Fight thats goes over 5 Sides.

In MW3 or MW4 a direct Fight hellbringer vs Hellbringer ended most in lower Time as 1 Minute,the most Time was Tactical and strategical Movement with larger Maps ,Peek a Boo, Seek and destroy ,wide Flanking Manovers, and Retreat fights

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 16 February 2021 - 07:44 PM.

[LordNothing]

Blood Rose, on 16 February 2021 - 11:30 AM, said:

It was and it removed the issue of pin point clickboom death. Back then armour was not doubled either, it worked well.

i think id actually prefer it the old way myself. or even better if you had control over your actuators, like being able to install a beefier actuator for better tracking or if the tracking speed was also affected by how many tons of equipment the arm was holding. you know sim features. and im definitely a proponent of more build options, you can never have too much lego.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 February 2021 - 09:16 PM.

[LordNothing]

SirSmokes, on 16 February 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

TT Battletech is a dice based game were you can miss based on dice rolls this game don't have random misses and you are as accurate as your skills. I have bin try to hammer this home for years this game can never be TT Battletech

i think pgi mostly leans to the tt game for its design influences, and completely gloss over what are effectively working mechanics from previous mechwarrior games. or perhaps they just want to do things differently than what came before.

if you have ever played freespace, which was the peak of the golden age of space sims. you know what made it such a great space sim isnt that they did things their own way. its that they blatantly stole the best space sim mechanics from the greats that came before (x-wing/tie fighter, various wing commanders, etc). mediocre devs create, great devs steal. id love to see that applied to a mechwarrior game.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 February 2021 - 09:26 PM.

[PocketYoda]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 16 February 2021 - 07:36 PM, said:

oh Fine ,than 50% of the Own Team is dead in 2 Minutes and Nascar ending faster



its ok for a Mechwarrior game , the Problem was the TT (one round in reality only 10 Sec!!!!!) and 6 Rounds a Minute and not a Hour in TT Playtime,and the Trash novels with a 1 Minute Fight thats goes over 5 Sides.

In MW3 or MW4 a direct Fight hellbringer vs Hellbringer ended most in lower Time as 1 Minute,the most Time was Tactical and strategical Movement with larger Maps ,Peek a Boo, Seek and destroy ,wide Flanking Manovers, and Retreat fights

I agree to a point but the issue here is the boating of weapons compared to TT most mechs in this carry five times the damage the mechs should be running.

SirSmokes, on 16 February 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

TT Battletech is a dice based game were you can miss based on dice rolls this game don't have random misses and you are as accurate as your skills. I have bin try to hammer this home for years this game can never be TT Battletech

I understand this but it still could follow the aspects of the game. I understand gamers hate random (look at Baldurs gate 3 hate and dice rolls) but still this game could lower the weapons a mech can carry back to their original setups some what.

Anyway its probable way to late to bother with conversations such as this in MWO life.

Edited by Samial, 17 February 2021 - 12:57 AM.

[Gagis]

I'm pretty sure anyone who has ever mentioned CoD in context of MWO has no idea what those other games are like. Pretty safe to ignore those arguments.

Time to kill in the Battletech board game is actually rather low. The technological power creep in the game steadily increases mechs' firepower over time while leaving armour values the same. As a result, mechs become increasingly likely to get one-shot with lucky rolls in 3050s, 3060s and onwards as firepower to tonnage ratio goes WAY up. Add to this that focused fire makes kills even faster when you have larger forces on the battlefield, and you should expect mechs to be blowing up all the time.

TTK in MWO on the other hand is glacially long. There's just a bit of an illusion of shortness whenever someone tries to fight the enemy team 1vs12. There's just no way for time to kill not to approach 0 whenever a player lets the entire enemy team hit them. No amount of extra armour will save you from 12 enemies shooting at you. Keep that attitude to single player games where you can be an indestructible juggernaut massacring countless weak enemies.

TTK increases a lot in high skill environments where players don't let themselves be shot like that, or whenever teams are smaller than 12. TTK in Scouting or Solaris, not to mention competitive games, is a lot longer due to the worst thing that could happen being a lot fewer than 12 mechs shooting at you at the same time.

[FupDup]

LordNothing, on 16 February 2021 - 09:16 PM, said:

i think id actually prefer it the old way myself. or even better if you had control over your actuators, like being able to install a beefier actuator for better tracking or if the tracking speed was also affected by how many tons of equipment the arm was holding. you know sim features. and im definitely a proponent of more build options, you can never have too much lego.

There is actually something called the Actuator Enhancement System (AES) that is kinda like that.

https://www.sarna.ne...ancement_System