62 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

Samial, on 17 February 2021 - 12:53 AM, said:

I agree to a point but the issue here is the boating of weapons compared to TT most mechs in this carry five times the damage the mechs should be running.


I understand this but it still could follow the aspects of the game. I understand gamers hate random (look at Baldurs gate 3 hate and dice rolls) but still this game could lower the weapons a mech can carry back to their original setups some what.

Anyway its probable way to late to bother with conversations such as this in MWO life.

In TT Batletech what you will find is most game have a stock only rule because custom builds in TT are better for the same reason they are in MWO.

[TENTACLE BOSS]

What happens is HAWKEN.









HAWKEN is now dead.

[LowSubmarino]

You wouldnt have to ask if you had been around longer in mwo. A lot of of things you experience now in the game are a direct consequence of considerable numbers (that is an understatement) of mwo players that went into complete cardiac arrest because they had been lamenting over ppcs, gauss, lrms....about all the long range weapons for so long.

The vast majority of mwo players back in the days couldnt handle strong, powerful long range weapons. They couldnt handle it. You have no idea just how many kazillion threads were active, talking about op ppcs, gauss, sniping, even lasers. All of it was massively nerfed several times. Big hug fat nerfs.

What you ask for, the reduction of armor, that is the past of mwo. Mechs were much more fragile. Many weapons were much more powerful. But 90 % of mwo players outright hated long range mech combat. They said it is boring. Almost all of them desperately wanted mostly brawls. Long lasting brawls in as buff as possible mechs with a lot of armor. That is why gauss was nerfed, why ppcs were nerfed, why lasers were nerfed. That is one major reason why you now have that much nascar. It is one of the major reasons.

Not because of the maps, what most ppl that dont now **** believe. They dunno what theyre talking about.
Nascar is one of the direct consequences of a step by step, continous and massive nerfing of everything that is long range.

And now, here, today, evybody complains about nascar. I just love this haha. I love it. This is why mwo is soo funny. The ppl here are funny. They dont know what they want. Back in the days they hated everything ppl here now wish would happen in mwo. They want very close quarter brawls to be the dominant engagment style in mwo. And so, the devs listend to all those players. They listened them. They did exactly what all playerrs asked for. Or most players. I ******* wasnt one of them. I thought ppcs, gauss, lasers....it was all fine. It was all fun.

Everything was nerfed then armor was increasesd. And you couldnt alpha or long range snipe as easily anymore. Back in the days.....god, that was awesome. You had fantastic sniper battles and you could die way more easily. It was a man's game back then. It was harder, more fun. Nowadays....its a bit trashy and totally arcade style now. You had way more ppl in the back cause sniping with ppc and gaus was devasting back then. Those things are kind of a joke at the moment. Unless you have a very long match and you have excellent heat dissipation and can fire forever. Or if you boat 3 heavy ppcs or heavy gauss with lasers.

Apart from that those once scary and awesome weapons systems were destroyed. Destroyed by this ungrateful arcade community.

But it is funny that you now ask for those old times.

There wont be many ppl that will support that endeavor though. But I would wager that even those reduced gauss and ppl weapons.....ppl would consider them to be complelty op, never even knowing that in the dark times those weapons were truly devasting. Nothing like today. I think the lamentations of the current puggernaut army would be so insanely loud and overpowering, that this server would collapse instantly. lol.

Edited by LowSubmarino, 17 February 2021 - 12:37 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

LowSubmarino, on 17 February 2021 - 12:31 PM, said:

The vast majority of mwo players back in the days couldnt handle strong, powerful long range weapons. They couldnt handle it. You have no idea just how many kazillion threads were active, talking about op ppcs, gauss, sniping, even lasers. All of it was massively nerfed several times. Big hug fat nerfs.

Incorrect it was they were just so good there was no reason to run anything else. They were so good there was no reason to run other weapon systems and they dominated

Edited by SirSmokes, 17 February 2021 - 01:28 PM.

[Dogstar]

The6thMessenger, on 16 February 2021 - 03:23 AM, said:

Currently, Armor is doubled + quirks, this is to compensate for the fact that TTK would be waaaaaaaaay lower because of pinpoint accuracy versus TT randomness.

What if we instead have the default armor halved instead? Would you like lower TTK? Might make the games faster, more fun, the weapons that rely on PPFLD such as PPC to be more important than DPS.

An utterly terrible idea, games would become much more twitch based, and all about front loading damage.

[FupDup]

LowSubmarino, on 17 February 2021 - 12:31 PM, said:

You wouldnt have to ask if you had been around longer in mwo. A lot of of things you experience now in the game are a direct consequence of considerable numbers (that is an understatement) of mwo players that went into complete cardiac arrest because they had been lamenting over ppcs, gauss, lrms....about all the long range weapons for so long. The vast majority of mwo players back in the days couldnt handle strong, powerful long range weapons. They couldnt handle it. You have no idea just how many kazillion threads were active, talking about op ppcs, gauss, sniping, even lasers. All of it was massively nerfed several times. Big hug fat nerfs. What you ask for, the reduction of armor, that is the past of mwo. Mechs were much more fragile. Many weapons were much more powerful. But 90 % of mwo players outright hated long range mech combat. They said it is boring. Almost all of them desperately wanted mostly brawls. Long lasting brawls in as buff as possible mechs with a lot of armor. That is why gauss was nerfed, why ppcs were nerfed, why lasers were nerfed. That is one major reason why you now have that much nascar. It is one of the major reasons. Not because of the maps, what most ppl that dont now **** believe. They dunno what theyre talking about. Nascar is one of the direct consequences of a step by step, continous and massive nerfing of everything that is long range. And now, here, today, evybody complains about nascar. I just love this haha. I love it. This is why mwo is soo funny. The ppl here are funny. They dont know what they want. Back in the days they hated everything ppl here now wish would happen in mwo. They want very close quarter brawls to be the dominant engagment style in mwo. And so, the devs listend to all those players. They listened them. They did exactly what all playerrs asked for. Or most players. I ******* wasnt one of them. I thought ppcs, gauss, lasers....it was all fine. It was all fun. Everything was nerfed then armor was increasesd. And you couldnt alpha or long range snipe as easily anymore. Back in the days.....god, that was awesome. You had fantastic sniper battles and you could die way more easily. It was a man's game back then. It was harder, more fun. Nowadays....its a bit trashy and totally arcade style now. You had way more ppl in the back cause sniping with ppc and gaus was devasting back then. Those things are kind of a joke at the moment. Unless you have a very long match and you have excellent heat dissipation and can fire forever. Or if you boat 3 heavy ppcs or heavy gauss with lasers. Apart from that those once scary and awesome weapons systems were destroyed. Destroyed by this ungrateful arcade community. But it is funny that you now ask for those old times. There wont be many ppl that will support that endeavor though. But I would wager that even those reduced gauss and ppl weapons.....ppl would consider them to be complelty op, never even knowing that in the dark times those weapons were truly devasting. Nothing like today. I think the lamentations of the current puggernaut army would be so insanely loud and overpowering, that this server would collapse instantly. lol.

Bruh, people still nascar'd back in the olden PPC meta days. They just nascar'd with PPC mechs. In fact, asymmetrical mechs like the Dragon Slayer and Highlander 733-C helped cement nascar into the game forever.

Also, long range weapons are generally still effective. One of the best builds in the game is the 3 ERPPC Vapor Eagle.

Edited by FupDup, 17 February 2021 - 02:21 PM.

[Blood Rose]

LowSubmarino, on 17 February 2021 - 12:31 PM, said:

You wouldnt have to ask if you had been around longer in mwo. A lot of of things you experience now in the game are a direct consequence of considerable numbers (that is an understatement) of mwo players that went into complete cardiac arrest because they had been lamenting over ppcs, gauss, lrms....about all the long range weapons for so long.

The vast majority of mwo players back in the days couldnt handle strong, powerful long range weapons. They couldnt handle it. You have no idea just how many kazillion threads were active, talking about op ppcs, gauss, sniping, even lasers. All of it was massively nerfed several times. Big hug fat nerfs.

What you ask for, the reduction of armor, that is the past of mwo. Mechs were much more fragile. Many weapons were much more powerful. But 90 % of mwo players outright hated long range mech combat. They said it is boring. Almost all of them desperately wanted mostly brawls. Long lasting brawls in as buff as possible mechs with a lot of armor. That is why gauss was nerfed, why ppcs were nerfed, why lasers were nerfed. That is one major reason why you now have that much nascar. It is one of the major reasons.

Not because of the maps, what most ppl that dont now **** believe. They dunno what theyre talking about.
Nascar is one of the direct consequences of a step by step, continous and massive nerfing of everything that is long range.

And now, here, today, evybody complains about nascar. I just love this haha. I love it. This is why mwo is soo funny. The ppl here are funny. They dont know what they want. Back in the days they hated everything ppl here now wish would happen in mwo. They want very close quarter brawls to be the dominant engagment style in mwo. And so, the devs listend to all those players. They listened them. They did exactly what all playerrs asked for. Or most players. I ******* wasnt one of them. I thought ppcs, gauss, lasers....it was all fine. It was all fun.

Everything was nerfed then armor was increasesd. And you couldnt alpha or long range snipe as easily anymore. Back in the days.....god, that was awesome. You had fantastic sniper battles and you could die way more easily. It was a man's game back then. It was harder, more fun. Nowadays....its a bit trashy and totally arcade style now. You had way more ppl in the back cause sniping with ppc and gaus was devasting back then. Those things are kind of a joke at the moment. Unless you have a very long match and you have excellent heat dissipation and can fire forever. Or if you boat 3 heavy ppcs or heavy gauss with lasers.

Apart from that those once scary and awesome weapons systems were destroyed. Destroyed by this ungrateful arcade community.

But it is funny that you now ask for those old times.

There wont be many ppl that will support that endeavor though. But I would wager that even those reduced gauss and ppl weapons.....ppl would consider them to be complelty op, never even knowing that in the dark times those weapons were truly devasting. Nothing like today. I think the lamentations of the current puggernaut army would be so insanely loud and overpowering, that this server would collapse instantly. lol.

You forget the days of mass poptarts and Thunderstruck Stalkers. Gods, those were bad days, but the chief issue was brought about by the removal of convergence. Convergence was a force for good, it meant that the PPFLD meta could not dominate so easily as it took time to zero in the weapons. It was the removal of convergence from the game that brought about the disaster of the deathsnipe era, and snowballed into the subsequent chain of nerfs and issues we have now. Hell, it is the reason, ultimately that we have Ghost Heat, Gauss Rifles that need charging and can only be charged 2 at a time.

[The6thMessenger]

Blood Rose, on 17 February 2021 - 06:58 PM, said:

You forget the days of mass poptarts and Thunderstruck Stalkers. Gods, those were bad days, but the chief issue was brought about by the removal of convergence. Convergence was a force for good, it meant that the PPFLD meta could not dominate so easily as it took time to zero in the weapons. It was the removal of convergence from the game that brought about the disaster of the deathsnipe era, and snowballed into the subsequent chain of nerfs and issues we have now. Hell, it is the reason, ultimately that we have Ghost Heat, Gauss Rifles that need charging and can only be charged 2 at a time.

That's actually interesting.

Why do they even need to remove convergence? Seems like if they hadn't done that, we wouldn't have underwent the toxic PPFLD meta and the **** storm that followed it.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

we have a Generation thats will fast close fights like COD run fast with a Big Shotgun
Polar ..oh No ,tactical Movement and long Range Fights and long walking ways ,and when this Snowflake lost in her Super Duper Mech ,the premades to bad with her skill, the LRMs to bad and Cover to wide ...we have a Generation of players, thats will win without Investment in Time and Skill and better plays Single Player games..Thats the Generation thats converted Battlefield Game in without Vehicles fast Close Combat Infantry Only games =Fast reacting against tactical thinking...

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 18 February 2021 - 03:29 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 18 February 2021 - 03:23 AM, said:

we have a Generation thats will fast close fights like COD run fast with a Big Shotgun
Polar ..oh No ,tactical Movement and long Range Fights and long walking ways ,and when this Snowflake lost in her Super Duper Mech ,the premades to bad with her skill, the LRMs to bad and Cover to wide ...we have a Generation of players, thats will win without Investment in Time and Skill and better plays Single Player games..Thats the Generation thats converted Battlefield Game in without Vehicles fast Close Combat Infantry Only games =Fast reacting against tactical thinking...

Thinking is hard and everyone wants instant gratification

[SPNKRGrenth]

TENTACLE BOSS, on 17 February 2021 - 04:21 AM, said:

What happens is HAWKEN.

HAWKEN is now dead.

Good to see I'm not the only one who knows what happened to that game. It had such a great start, but then a very small part of the player base was loud enough to ruin the game, and everyone left.

Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 18 February 2021 - 04:33 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

SPNKRGrenth, on 18 February 2021 - 04:33 AM, said:

Good to see I'm not the only one who knows what happened to that game. It had such a great start, but then a very small part of the player base was loud enough to ruin the game, and everyone left.

That is the story of many games the player base drives it in to the group. Was not the first will not be the last. Sometimes players don't know what they want or think they want this when it will drive the game in to the ground. Never under estimate people's ability to self destruct themselves

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 February 2021 - 05:03 AM.

[Sasuga]

When the game was first released, armor was a lot less. A lot of games ended in about three minutes.

They upped the armor on everyone as a way to make matches last longer.


EDIT: ADD:
It's also why they added ghost heat, when upping the armor alone wasn't enough.

Edited by Sasuga, 19 February 2021 - 05:36 AM.

[Willard Phule]

The6thMessenger, on 16 February 2021 - 03:23 AM, said:

Currently, Armor is doubled + quirks, this is to compensate for the fact that TTK would be waaaaaaaaay lower because of pinpoint accuracy versus TT randomness.

What if we instead have the default armor halved instead? Would you like lower TTK? Might make the games faster, more fun, the weapons that rely on PPFLD such as PPC to be more important than DPS.

Faster matches since the baby seals can be harvested more efficiently?

[BTGbullseye]

I would much prefer if the entire build system was reworked to match the Roguetech mod for Battletech. Lots of armor, massive variety, quirky pirate mechs. (like the Atlas named Blackbeard which has a Raven torso mounted on the shoulder which is named "Polly")

Advanced materials to lighten the mech at the cost of space used, lots of different armor types (Spall Armor preventing through-armor criticals, which are missing from MWO) and structure types.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 19 February 2021 - 07:43 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

great video over the Strong Points for MWO and al the weaking failures



with 12 vs 12 More enemys firing at you and you died faster, the concentrated Focus fire from the better teams is mor deadly ...the Older games in 4 vs 4 or 8vs 8 better for the most small Maze Style Maps

[The pessimistic optimist]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 20 February 2021 - 04:50 AM, said:

great video over the Strong Points for MWO and al the weaking failures



with 12 vs 12 More enemys firing at you and you died faster, the concentrated Focus fire from the better teams is mor deadly ...the Older games in 4 vs 4 or 8vs 8 better for the most small Maze Style Maps

Just imagine arty strikes or air strikes with half armor

[Zordicron]

The6thMessenger, on 16 February 2021 - 03:23 AM, said:

Currently, Armor is doubled + quirks, this is to compensate for the fact that TTK would be waaaaaaaaay lower because of pinpoint accuracy versus TT randomness.

What if we instead have the default armor halved instead? Would you like lower TTK? Might make the games faster, more fun, the weapons that rely on PPFLD such as PPC to be more important than DPS.

Yeah! And then they should double the effective movement rate(not speed numbers, just how the mechs move on the maps, ezpz) the twist rate and turns. Then they can rename it "CoD: Call of the Clans". Oh, and then respawns.

That was extreme sarcasm for those that can't tell.

Brief history of the game from a beta player:
Pinpoint aiming was decided on after the challenges of trying to make a custom version of cry engine do things cry engine was never supposed to do. Along with making weapons out of things in cry engine that weren;t supposed to exist, the devs also had a convergence mechanic(think: target crosshairs that need time to "home in") and LRM's that had a lot more spread and travel arc on them.

Oh and the Atlas eyes lit up red if I remember right.

Anyway, it was basically the wrong engine for the game, but they soldiered on with it. Then later, because the version was like a prerelease beta version of cryengine or something, they got basically zero support from the makers of cryengine as they were told the version was obsolete. Heavily invested in time and money into the existing build, they moved on with it. At some point they hired a guy to put in a proper HSR code, which turned the entire weapon balance on it's head(99% of players had no idea what was happening before or after the HSR code, extremely evident in forum posts) so we had ghost heat added rather then fix years worth of on weapon coding(which was all custom worked into this custom cryengine to start with and likely not changeable without taking the game down)

So:
Beta/custom cryengine decision put this game into the path through the weeds from the ground floor
Unable to get netcode and convergence to play nice, it was dropped.
Armor was doubled because pre ghost heat loadouts could one shot an Atlas.
People play this game, especially from back then, because it is Mechwarrior and not CoD.

What we have is what we have until someone invests in MWO 2: Electric Boogaloo and restarts the entire game on a proper engine. Any deviation from the current armor vs. netcode vs. weapons output will result in chaos for months. That is why i am a fan of reducing games to 8v8 like it was back then, most of the maps are designed for it anyway and it is something that could be done that wouldn't stand years of balance tweaks on it's head. But that's a different topic really.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

thats the Result when you drive the talented Programmers and Coders drive away or lost while other companys have better Future, Goal and Career...Russ Idea with transverse (and the marketing Lies around ) an dthe following internal wars by PGI break the Neck of MWO

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 20 February 2021 - 10:22 AM.

[Last Of The Brunnen-G]

You could halve the armor value back to the original TT values. But to make this work and have hugh alpha strikes have less impact we would need some other game mechanics. We could have projectiles bounce of at certain angels, missiles misfire and fail to detonate at random and convergence limited to arm mounted weapons and needing time to adjust.