615 replies to this topic

[WereGenie]

Void Angel, on 24 August 2022 - 01:18 AM, said:

Look, two things: First, I have heard this kind of complaint steadily over the last decade; snow or hail, rain or shine - including times when Light 'mechs were clearly inferior to anything else on the battlefield. Like now, arguably - if you want to prove that just spend an evening recording the weight class percentages on the Quickplay button now and then. I will be shocked the day Light 'mechs consistently reach 25% Typically, they fluctuate around 17-18%. And nearly always, when I see Assaults get destroyed by a Light in matches with my own two eyes, it's because the Assault player doesn't maneuver their machine well enough - or just took an entire loadout with a minimum range. They invariably hate to hear that, but it usually is quite true. Lights have been very weak at most points in the game's history, and they're certainly not the equal of an Assault - as anyone who plays Faction Warfare will tell you.

Now secondly, I'm going to be a bit hard-nosed on this point: show me a rule(vintage, because we're not talking about Alpha Strike, or other new versions) that says machine guns don't hurt 'mechs. You won't find any, because they always have hurt Battlemechs. Now, I can show you rules that make them better against infantry, but think a moment- why would the original game developers for tabletop need to do that? The obvious answer is that machine guns kind of suck in BT, so they needed something to make them worth choosing, instead of a Small Laser, because the heat benefit wasn't quite worth the tonnage (outside of crazy Solaris VII builds that took advantage of the arena format.) And that's the same with MWO; so, given that Machine Guns are intended to hurt 'Mechs in tabletop, and that there are no infantry in this game for MGs to deal bonus damage to... What did you expect the developers to do in order to make machine guns more viable? Without buffing the damage, you'd have to give them enhanced critical effects - just like MWO.

All of this demonstrates a very important principle - the rulebooks for the original pen-and-paper games from the 80s are not authoritative for this game. The supplementary rules and sidebar fluff definitely aren't - the different formats mean that things will be different, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I am new to MWO only playing since April. I have lost more battlemechs to lights than all other classes COMBINED. Now I don't know who this "Isengrim" is, but I do know the Discord group the Devs ACTUALLY LISTEN TO is the Cauldron. And when the Cauldron UNANIMOUSLY say Lights are OP, THEY ARE FREAKING OP, PERIOD. And when a Cauldron Member like D a t a posts a 30min video on how light pilots LIE about lights not being OP, I listen to HIM.

https://youtu.be/5PIBuOaEBgc

As for MGs damaging Battlemechs, I have never agreed with that. The Mackie is said to have stopped a 120mm from a Merkava IV in "The first layer of armor". Any armor that can do that will not even notice MG fire. In 40yrs of service the US Army states that NO M1 series tank has ever been disabled by MG fire. There have been instances where the engine was damaged by fire from directly behind, but kept functioning. Having said all that, the designers of BTech put it in the rules that MGs damage mechs and therefore it migrated to MWO. I will say however, and members of the Cauldron agree, they do too much damage, too fast.

Edited by WereGenie, 06 September 2022 - 03:30 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

WereGenie, on 06 September 2022 - 03:21 PM, said:

I am new to MWO only playing since April. I have lost more battlemechs to lights than all other classes COMBINED. Now I don't know who this "Isengrim" is, but I do know the Discord group the Devs ACTUALLY LISTEN TO is the Cauldron. And when the Cauldron UNANIMOUSLY say Lights are OP, THEY ARE FREAKING OP, PERIOD. And when a Cauldron Member like D a t a posts a 30min video on how light pilots LIE about lights not being OP, I listen to HIM.

https://youtu.be/5PIBuOaEBgc

Are they saying that unanimously, though? D A T A is often pretty alone in his opinion from what I gathered. That click-baity YT vid doesn't prove much.

[Void Angel]

WereGenie, on 06 September 2022 - 03:21 PM, said:

I am new to MWO only playing since April. I have lost more battlemechs to lights than all other classes COMBINED. Now I don't know who this "Isengrim" is, but I do know the Discord group the Devs ACTUALLY LISTEN TO is the Cauldron. And when the Cauldron UNANIMOUSLY say Lights are OP, THEY ARE FREAKING OP, PERIOD. And when a Cauldron Member like D a t a posts a 30min video on how light pilots LIE about lights not being OP, I listen to HIM.

https://youtu.be/5PIBuOaEBgc

As for MGs damaging Battlemechs, I have never agreed with that. The Mackie is said to have stopped a 120mm from a Merkava IV in "The first layer of armor". Any armor that can do that will not even notice MG fire. In 40yrs of service the US Army states that NO M1 series tank has ever been disabled by MG fire. There have been instances where the engine was damaged by fire from directly behind, but kept functioning. Having said all that, the designers of BTech put it in the rules that MGs damage mechs and therefore it migrated to MWO. I will say however, and members of the Cauldron agree, they do too much damage, too fast.

As noted above, one guy's opinion does not demonstrate that the entire Cauldron agrees with him - nor is your experience as a newbie actually indicative of game balance. I have shoes that have spent more time playing MWO than you. Newbies and scrubs have been crying about Lights since -forever,- regardless of whether or not those 'mechs were actually performing overall. Listen to yourself: You don't know who people are, you haven't been playing for very long, you think Lights totally must be OP because people are using them to farm newbies (e.g. you) - the only thing your citation of Data's video proved that I could tell is that you are easily led.

Some of his claims are interesting and plausible, but his insistence on waving away literally all collectible data in favor of his opinion is a huge logical red flag. He might be correct to some degree about Light balance, but he's mostly just being passionately arrogant about appealing to his own authority while dismissing every possible concrete fact. He's also literally selling a conspiracy theory with a built-in No True Scotsman fallacy: Top Light pilots are conspiring to hide how totally OP the weight class is, and so if anyone disagrees with him, they are either a liar, or too bad at piloting Lights to use them properly.

Like I said, he could be right; or he could be full of something - possibly himself. But reading a few other people's opinions and regurgitating them isn't research, and it doesn't make you an expert - it makes you a parrot.

PS: As for the "realism," angle, don't even. We are playing in a world based on a tabletop wargame, where all armor is ablative, and where giant, articulated robots that break the laws of physics are tougher than a tank built with the same technology. If that game says machine guns damage 'mechs, they do - flavor sidebars and novels published with poor editorial control relative to tech capabilities don't change that. Heck, man! You're assuming that the only thing that matters in military munitions is the size of the gun!

[WereGenie]

Void Angel, on 06 September 2022 - 10:35 PM, said:

As noted above, one guy's opinion does not demonstrate that the entire Cauldron agrees with him - nor is your experience as a newbie actually indicative of game balance. I have shoes that have spent more time playing MWO than you. Newbies and scrubs have been crying about Lights since -forever,- regardless of whether or not those 'mechs were actually performing overall. Listen to yourself: You don't know who people are, you haven't been playing for very long, you think Lights totally must be OP because people are using them to farm newbies (e.g. you) - the only thing your citation of Data's video proved that I could tell is that you are easily led.

After 25yrs in the US Army as an armor officer, I have to say you are the most arrogant sonofabitch I have ever met, and knowing some of my CO's , that is saying something. I am done with this thread. believe what you want, but even in the recent Q&A with NGNGtv the devs admitted there is a problem with light mechs, they just don't know how to fix it yet. Oh well, I will keep playing and losing to the Light mafia which infests Tier5, 7 of them in my last match, so obviously there is an attraction of some kind. As for you having shoes that played more MWO than me, are they as Arrogant as you are???

[Void Angel]

I sincerely hope you listened to your NCOs better than you listen here. You charged into the thread with a haughty dismissal of my and others' positions based on your wealth of playing experience and a link to a video that calls me either a liar or an incompetent - and you have the gall to call me names and consider yourself the injured party? It must have been hell serving under you.

I don't have the problems with Lights in my matches that you have, so maybe your experience as a bottom-tier newbie isn't authoritative in any way on the state of the game as a whole. Now, if the devs think Lights are overperforming at high tier, that's interesting - or would be, if you'd actually cited it. I notice you used different language to characterize the dev's statements, so I really want to hear how they phrased it. Regardless, they actually have access to the data and information to make that determination. Maybe you should have led with that, instead of conspiracy videos and invective.

Edited by Void Angel, 14 September 2022 - 12:53 PM.

[MercJ]

WereGenie, on 07 September 2022 - 11:02 AM, said:

After 25yrs in the US Army as an armor officer, I have to say you are the most arrogant sonofabitch I have ever met[...]

You haven't met each other, just saying. It's a forum. And if making claims based upon hard data (or at least the most solid data we have access to) is "arrogant" then...well, no wonder it's so difficult to have discussions on balance lol. And most arrogant?? Never met any Marines in your service I take it?

And besides, unless you were a myomer muscle tech or fusion reactor specialist, real military experience probably doesn't play as big of a role in weapon balance for a game set in 3050+ as one would think (however, in tactics and communication and the general philosophy of warfare? A surprising amount, perhaps...something something OODA loop, but I digress...)

Back to the discussion at hand: been playing for close to 10 years now, have experimented with all classes and builds - lights are still feast or famine, and the experience is COMPLETELY different depending on what tier you're in and who you get matched against. When my tier got reset from 1, playing lights was almost...relaxing. You could engage/disengage at will, and reposition wherever you wanted in seconds. You could even learn pretty quickly who was a good shot or not, and dance around the bad shots.

Back in tier 1, it's nerve-wracking, because one wrong move or being visible for more than a second means someone one shots you (or at least sweeps a leg, which is ultimately a death sentence in a light). And with all the structure quirks now that EVERYONE uses, chewing through an assaults armor with massed machine guns still takes seconds too long - seconds that they have already used the built in "Help!" callout (which they didn't have when I started) and every light hunter within 1000m is sprinting back for the easy kill.

Frankly, I think weapon balance is in of good of a spot as it has ever been, and same with weight classes now that they fixed the skill tree and engine/tonnage movement. It's why I actually started playing again, after hearing that PGI was listening to players that have a pretty good understanding of weapon balance.

EDIT because thoughts...why do people have to double-down on "MUH EXPERIENCES!!" I freakin love me some tanks - add some stompy robits and lasers, and I'm there. I'd LOVE to hear more about this armor officer's experience with some real heavy metal. Share some of those stories. That's where your expertise is, and no one's discrediting that. Maybe consider that some people have spent a lot of time with this game too, and have a good understanding of the data and how it manifests in-game. You can learn the way, instead of just stubbornly refusing that someone else might have a better concept - based on DATA, not assumptions - of how this game plays.

Edited by MercJ, 14 September 2022 - 11:09 AM.

[JPeiper]

I'm right with Weregenie on this one, been playing since 2019 and was great fun untill about a year or so ago when the first lights and thier favoured weapons systems where made op. Sorry guys, but I have now almost stopped playing, played 4 matches today QP 'cause the Elite server is down for an update. Rage quit after having 3 matches with my back shot out. Call me crap if you like , I no longer care. I have 4 AC5 's and could'nt hit the jumping ppc urbie who bounced around me and ripped me to bits. The 1 game was good as we had a proper game of angles/flanking and FUN.(still lost though !) Like I say, other 3 games I had a few lights round the back so it was impossible to play a game. Now, as soon as some brain says that the team should have lights protecting the assaults you've just made my case !
I feel the main problem is that in tier 5/4 lights ARE weak and it's because the players are new , they stand still, can't use cover etc (just like me when I started out) and can't jj or circle strafe bigger machines - It's a skill thing. But when you give a light mech to a tier 3+ player they can skill and querk them up, fill them with mg's and s lasers and they are VERY good pilots and the light now becomes op to the point heavy /assault pilots just quit when you see 'em behind you.
I suspect pir know it's a problem but can't fix it 'cause they will loose light players ,or (seeing some of the posts above) get trolled to hell. so rather than do what is needed they will buff assault adgility etc which won't fix the problem.Half of me says some of the individuals in the posts above should just clear off to COD and Halo where they can jump and run around at warp 9 all day with an inf ammo mod.
This problem is causing players we need in this game to quit, like me. Game stats do NOT take account of the tier 5/4 player ability problem- a race car driver in a commuting car can beat an ordinary driver in a track race car any day ,so what do we do at MWO? we buff the commuting car and the game goes to hell.
I used to play this game a lot, at least an hour or two a day after work, now I'm rage quitting when I do drop in and then typing posts like this - not what I wanted to do this afternoon. Why? Because I do like this game.I hope it gets back to being a tactical game not Halo. I'm not holding by breath.
PS Why the hell are the pir devs on discord not thier own forum ????? makes me think they don't care about thier own platform.

[MercJ]

JPeiper, on 15 September 2022 - 06:51 AM, said:

I suspect pir know it's a problem but can't fix it 'cause they will loose light players

There aren't any light players TO lose, so I don't think that's it - the queue for lights is commonly below 20%, and usually hovers closer to 15%. Many recent matches I've had have 6 assaults/half the team! Have you tried playing lights? It's not as OP as everyone's making it out to be, although the Urbie is far tankier than it has any right to be (shoot its legs).

Why is it no one provides any proof of all these anecdotes? Recording software is everywhere nowadays, just RECORD your matches, make a compilation of your back getting shot out by lights, and then everyone can see how OP they are.

Here's an anecdote - literally just played a match where I caught a dual gauss round to the leg in a locust. Essentially took me out of the match, had to hide that leg behind a hill the rest of the game (and still got legged by a stray laser).

Got smoked by an AC20 in the next match - dodged the first two shots, but they got me in the torso on the third (my fault, shouldn't have peeked the same corner again).

I've been playing lights to figure out if they're a problem like I'm seeing stated here. I think they're balanced pretty well. If you are at the top of your game, you can have a good game in (some) light mechs. One wrong move and you're done though, which feels about right.

EDIT: Just played another match in my locust, died doing 43 damage. I've had 700 damage games in that thing. Couldn't even run away, got run down by a Flea and Incubus. Lights OP I guess?

Question: what is your mouse sensitivity set at, JPeiper? 4 AC5s should tear off legs, two salvos that hit is enough to get any light mech to run away.

Edited by MercJ, 15 September 2022 - 07:23 PM.

[Void Angel]

They have a Discord for the same reason anyone has a Discord; it's a popular, ubiquitous platform with broader and better engagement than a proprietary forum.

[Void Angel]

On the subject of Lights; they might be overpowered at top tiers - but I can't see them being overpowered by that much. They're certainly a higher skill floor than the larger 'mechs, because Gauss Rifles don't care if your weight class is underrepresented.

Of course, it doesn't have to be a matter of shouted opinions and name-calling on the forums. if certain parties want to hand-wave away literally all of the available data in favor of their own opinions and subjective experience, they can still do science to that. Just grab as many other high-skill pilots as you can, and go record some private matches - popular maps, all big 'mechs v. all Lights. Do that until a clear pattern of wins occurs, and then do show and tell. You still need to control for variables: you need more than a few people doing it; you need to mix up the teams; and you probably will want to mix in half-teams of Lights on one side to see if that makes a difference. But the bottom line is, we have much better options than linking conspiracy theories and yelling on the forums.

[WereGenie]

Gentlemen, I have stayed away from this conversation for a while, mostly because I wanted to figure out exactly why I was so bent out of shape over a GAME. Finally I was forced to put the blame squarely on my competitive streak. I HATE TO LOSE. That trait made me a good Cavalry Scout (19C) and later when advancement in Cavalry became too slow made me a good Tank officer (19B). It does however make me a terrible gamer, though I have improved. If for example if you see me on the other team in a match and I type "GL HF" before the match, then no matter how badly we lose, or If I die in the game or not, I will take it quietly. No matter how much I may want to throw my laptop across the room or put my fist through the screen. I will however ALWAYS salute someone who takes me down with superior skill. (The Dire wolf pilot who one-shotted me with Gauss rifles comes to mind). As for "Jumping in the conversation without studying the whole picture", not guilty. Failing to list all my sources and where I got information from, guilty. I always approach a game, (electronic or otherwise) by seeking out the best players I can find, see what they do to win and what they don't do. And when I FINALLY start a game based on my favorite table top game and my favorite game universe AND I see YouTubers like Baradul, TTB, NGNGtv, D A T A, ZoniMochi, Tom's Gaming Lair, ALL at some point in time post a video featuring Light Mechs and every video is labeled "This is why people are quitting this game" or words to that effect then to me it is a natural conclusion that Lights are OP. Simply because there are so many Troll builds. Just recently I had a Stealth Flea pop out from behind a mesa on Canyon and literally run up UNDER my King Crab and MG me to death, in an Undamaged mech. I could NOT back away fast enough to be able to shoot him, Hell I couldn't even SEE him. It took NO skill, NONE, he just ran under me where he knew I could not fight back, killed me and then used the "All Chat" to brag about the "easy kill", and that "no thunderfoot (as he put it) could beat him". THAT IS ******* OP. Pardon my language but any game system that is structured in that way, that is OP. Was this guy an exception, rather than the rule, maybe, I don't think so, ECM Lights I have learned are nearly impossible to beat, Had I been running one of my Fafnirs, maybe, MAYBE I could have done better. I always run my ECM in Counter mode so I would have at least seen him coming. My KGC is a Sniper mech (ERPPCs and Gauss Rifles) so I don't run Seismic like I would in a Brawler. I have since changed that, hopefully it will give me a chance. I have given up on posting screenshots here as NONE of the websites I post photos on work here, all I get is the "broken link" symbol. As for recording my games Murphy is all over that, either I record the whole game and only see light mechs thru my gun sights at long range () or I try to record when a light jumps me and die before I can get the scfreen recorder going. (). Perhaps lights are balanced in higher Tiers, I don't know, I can't seem to BUY my way out of Tier5. I also admit I do see players I believe are Tier5/4 and like D A T A said in his video they aren't very good at running and gunning. I can deal with them all day and I believe have a fair chance, but when someone in a Flea or Incubus, gets on me and just runs in circles around me shooting me in the back, well, I just punch out at that point to deny them the kill. Petty, I admit, but I truly despise those kind of tactics.

As for my time as a Tanker, 1) my men always came first, always, in the field they ate before I did, they showered (if we had the facilities) and they rested before I did. I was ALWAYS first in my crew to stand watch overnight, and 2) (when my duties permitted) I ALWAYS helped with track maintenance (that's TRACK as in "tracked vehicle" not "track" maintenance). As for the Marines, the Marine Tankers I have met were always professional, upstanding men, the "infantry" jarheads on the other hand.......().
Anyway, I said what I came back to say, do I believe lights are broken in Lower Tiers, perhaps not, are they broken when the Broken matchmaker puts Tier3 players against Tier5, Absolutely. So, I am willing to go back on what I said earlier and admit that (hopefully) fixing matchmaking will take away some of the Godlike Lights I see now. Perhaps not, but one fix at a time.

And if there is anyone here I have cussed out over the Chat, I do apologize, and I am working on that. Just don't run a flea up under me and then brag about how I was "no contest to kill" and you won't get my temper with both barrels, Head shot me from 400 meters like happened a couple of weeks ago, and I will compliment you. Damn, that hurt, I died before I could pull the trigger, LOL.

Edited by WereGenie, 18 September 2022 - 07:33 PM.

[MercJ]

Quote

[color=#959595]I see YouTubers like Baradul, TTB, NGNGtv, D A T A, ZoniMochi, Tom's Gaming Lair, ALL at some point in time post a video featuring Light Mechs and every video is labeled "This is why people are quitting this game" or words to that effect then to me it is a natural conclusion that Lights are OP. Simply because there are so many Troll builds. Just recently I had a Stealth Flea pop out from behind a mesa on Canyon and literally run up UNDER my King Crab and MG me to death[/color]

Any chance you could post some of these links? I'd like to watch them.

Also just FYI, there aren't any Flea variants that have both MGs and stealth (or ECM). The Flea 20 is the only one that's super sneaky, and it's lasers only. You might be thinking of the Locust / Pirate's Bane hero, it can do MGs (although only 2 of them) and stealth armor + ECM. I get the two confused all the time, they look pretty similar when they blow past at 150kph.

Point is, 2 MGs isn't near enough to do much of anything. I've tested the Pirahna 1 in the testing grounds (to figure out if the cooldown skills do anything to MGs), and it takes 15 seconds to chew through the Atlas's front armor in the Canyon testing grounds map (8 seconds to go through the front CT of the Centurion by the spawn). That's with 12 standard clan MGs.

Yeah, I know, most of the time they try to get your back, and that usually (should) have less armor than the front. Still takes a few seconds, and they have to basically stand still to guarantee they all hit back CT - if there's anyone else around, that's an insta-kill for anyone in range to shoot at them while they try to chew through your back.

I'd agree that it's a way different experience depending on the tier, and that getting matched with tiers far above/below is frustrating and shouldn't happen, ideally.

Don't use arm lock when dealing with lights (if you have arm mounted weapons), and reduce your mouse sensitivity so you can track easier. Those two things alone will help - along with possibly increasing your FOV up from the default 60 so you get a bit more peripheral vision.

EDIT: Also, if you're using Windows, just use the built in XBOX recording stuff, Win+G. Win+Alt+R starts/stops recording, or just use Win+Alt+G to grab a quick clip of the previous 30 seconds. Also, I use imgur to host/upload/post pictures, it works really well for me.

Edited by MercJ, 19 September 2022 - 10:57 PM.

[Void Angel]

Fleas and Locusts look pretty similar at times - that does sound like a Pirate's Bane.

WereGenie, on 18 September 2022 - 05:35 PM, said:

Gentlemen, I have stayed away from this conversation for a while, mostly because I wanted to figure out exactly why I was so bent out of shape over a GAME..

Don't worry about it. This game attracts a lot of veterans, officer and NCO alike - and while we might not talk to you like it's still the Army, we're also not gonna melt if you yell at us. =)

As MercJ points out, it was probably a Pirate's Bane that killed you - but he's also a scrub who is counting on you being new. See, you can unlock the arms and move them below your field of view in that King Crab in order to shoot at your feet. It's counter-intuitive, and you kind of have to aim by feel, but it works (I just went into the testing grounds to check myself; a Locust is about chin-high to a Jenner, but I was able to face-hug the Jenner and shoot him in the lower leg with my Gauss Rifles.) You can also push forward, into and through them, which causes rubber-banding, and hit registration, which can let you phase through them, and might give you the help you need to get a clear shot. That whole hugging their knees thing only really works when all of the Assault's weapons are on its torso - which is why I've had Medium Lasers on my Atlas's arms for the last ten years.

MercJ, on 19 September 2022 - 10:39 PM, said:

Any chance you could post some of these links? I'd like to watch them.

I've seen a few; there are several Youtubers who have... opinions, on the subject. And they're good at the game, but... a lot of times they're just showing a highlight reel, and the opponents who make the cut are... special. Take this example at 4:00: The guy simply cannot hit the broad side of a barn. And it took him FOREVER to chew through the Black Knight's armor, too. Prior to the Black Knight was a bunch of Heavies who were constantly distracted and let him come back after them over, and over and over again. Then who's his next victim? A Locust with a Large Pulse Laser! Baradul's video was just him having fun in a Flea, The only videos that turned up on my YouTube filter that were talking about how Lights were totally broken and "cancer" were DATA's.

I have seen other videos, but the ones I looked at were all using the "man on the street" scam - the one where they go and shove a microphone in a few thousand people's faces, and only show the wrong answers from the people who drew a blank in front of the camera. Then they say, "oh look how many [Americans/kids/conservatives] don't know [common facts/geography trivia/etc.] It's the same with a lot of these videos, which is the basis of my skepticism. Like I said, they could be onto something; but I can't just take bad reasoning because the source has good gamer skills.

In any case, WereGenie, there are some things you're doing as I pilot that I would not recommend doing, or find to be unnecessary. Stop by the New Player Help forums and we can probably improve your experiences in matches.

[WereGenie]

I think both of you are most likely correct. I did not stay around for the end of that game simply because I was so irate over that players arrogance. I blamed MGs for the kill, simply because in the heat of the moment I remembered HEARING MGs. Having gone into the store and taken a Pirates Bane to the testing ground, 2 MGs are loud enough that I probably didn't notice the lasers, especially in panic mode trying to maneuver away.

@Void Angel, I always unlock my arms (when the mech has lower arms). That is the first trick I learned, lol. It wouldn't have helped simply because I suck at using Gauss Rifles at brawling range, really badly suck at it. My KGC with Ac20s would have done better, I could have dropped the arms and held down the mouse button so the guns would fire as fast as they cooled down. I would have died anyway I am sure, I am not good at "guesstimate and shoot" situations. I deliberately have my Crab with Gauss/PPC and my FNR-5B with Gauss/ML for that reason. Practice, practice, PRACTICE.

Here are some videos. The last guy I originally mistook (or misremembered) as NGNGtv. NOT. I shouldn't have used NGNG as an example last post.

https://youtu.be/2U11J7raY_Y TTB

https://youtu.be/p0mr9Hs-ZN0 Tom's Gaming Lair

https://youtu.be/3sS7xfz6nfs D A T A

https://youtu.be/0dxcwo0UIq8 ul7ima (mistook him for NGNG, my mistake)


After rewatching Baradul, I also removed him, agreeing with Void Angel, Baradul's video wasn't really a "this is broken" video as much as a "this is what you can do with a light" video. I watched maybe 30 videos this morning and have come to two conclusions.
1) D A T A seems to simply dislike lights, period. I haven't binge-watched his stuff till now, and therefore missed that trait before. Wow, his videos paint a picture of someone who doesn't want lights in the game.

2) It is my opinion that fixing matchmaking would solve a lot of the current problem. If PGI could fix matchmaking I think a lot of people would come back to the game, thereby increasing the player pool and making matchmaking even easier.

Having said that my only idea is to make the game XP based and group up players within a certain XP range. Exactly HOW to do that with long time players, I am still working on.

[Void Angel]

I actually recommend keeping arm lock on by default, and using the left shift key as a toggle; it's more effective to have all your guns pointed the same way by default - it's a cognitive wiring thing, similar to how you can't actually aim two handguns at once.

Matchmaking improvements would definitely help the issue - but one that is pardoxically difficult to solve with current populations. There was a whole saga of PGI revamping the matchmaker to the current system, and then having to explain how the system worked. Those explanations are how we know which tiers you can be matched with, for example. Essentially, it starts out trying to match two players of the same tier, then expands outward over time if the match hasn't gotten enough players to get going (if you're waiting a long time for a match, this is what's happening.) They tried more closely matching players to experience (which is what PSR ended up being originally,) but found that in order to get a high fidelity in close matching, some players were having to wait a very long time. =[

I know PGI is still open/trying to fix matchmaking to be better, but the population they're working with imposes some unfortunate constraints.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot; the TTB video is about rocket launcher troll builds, not lights, per se There Baradul has a Bushwhacker build that can core an Atlas - from the front.. A light is just the best platform to do a rocket launcher delete build because of the mobility. Altima VII's video is showcasing the insane 50% RoF quirk for MGs; he specifically says that his Kit Fox is balanced by cardboard armor. Tom's Gaming Lair... well, he talked about Lights being able to "just hug the leg of an Atlas and kill it," then proceeds to play his Light like a Medium (and he's using the Laserchicken build that's been in the game since the release of the Raven; not a new or particularly powerful build.) He did damage, but literally any Battlemech with his weapon loadout and a modicum of mobility would do the same in a match where most people simply didn't pay attention to him (or the directional pings from their damage indicators.)

I point all this out, not to sharpshoot your examples, but because these videos are typical of my browsing as well. I look at them from the standpoint of asking if Lights are OP, and out of my own experience I say, "well, maybe at higher skill levels than mine, but this video isn't showing me that."

Edited by Void Angel, 21 September 2022 - 06:43 PM.

[Arhanin]

Having been a long time player, with some long periods between playing, one thing stands out considerably. That being clan weapons continually get damage nerfs as the years go by... while inner sphere weapons seem to get stronger... Either that or you are secretly coding IS weapons to do more damage to Clan armor and components.

So enough is enough. Any long time supporter and player who has a preference for either side would agree, this is far overdue for a balance, perhaps even go back to the lore where clan weapons have superior range and fire power while IS mechs are more "tanky" but there weapons don't quite pack as much of a punch or are as effective with heat management.

But hey, why stick to the history or try to provide game balance... or either.

Angled armors should have deflection chance/bonuses verse ballistics.

Lasers should heat impact sites on armor and give ballistics increase chance to do damage, or perhaps even penetrate and damage internal components.

Gauss weapons are essentially rail guns, projectile speeds should be increased dramatically to reflect what the weapons are actually capable of... And should probably do more damage to reflect the actually speeds they are fired at.

Missiles, please stop reducing the damage of missiles, when used effectively in warfare, ranged artillery does make a massive difference to the outcome of a conflict. ATM damage nerfs are ridiculous compared with MRM damage being the same since their introduction to the armaments. Couple that with no one knows how to press "R" these days to allow for support fire... let alone the fact that it seems only the old school players know how to take consumable support items... Missiles which would be a general purpose warfare asset, in game are just toys that occasionally get used. Unless you're an IS pilot with MRM racks.

Heat generation, again there is no balance between Clan and IS, same weapon configurations on same weight class mechs with same size engine and heat sinks... Clan mechs will overheat far quicker with fewer alpha strikes than the IS comparison. Please balance the potential damage output between Clan and IS with this fact in mind.

And that concludes my review from years of playing and testing out various things also playing numerous games before making this post.

I do hope this helps improve the overall game play for all with regards to fairness and balance, especially between like tonnage Clan and IS mechs.

Thank you for reading.