220 replies to this topic

[Alreech]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 February 2021 - 06:47 AM, said:

I also love the comparisons to Call of Duty like it's some type of insult. Call of Duty has a playerbase of millions and a constant stream of development. If real time shooter games with PvP aren't for you, go play something else.

If I want to play a real time shooter with PvP and fast matches on small maps i play Call of Duty.
If I want to play a real time shooter with PvP and Teamwork i play Battlefield.
If I want to play a real time shooter with PvP and big mechs i play Titanfall.

If I want to play NASCAR with 11 random dudes & no teamwork i can play Mechwarrior Online.
But nascaring is kinda boring.
Most of the Mechs in MWO aren't even viable if you want to do PvP, except you like being in a disadvantage.

The Dragon is such disadvantage.
It takes up a heavy slot in the matchmaker, the same as a Warhammer or Marauder, so it's a waste of tonnage.
The CT missle hardpoints don't allow the use of big MRMs, so it's an disadvantage.

Edited by Alreech, 21 February 2021 - 09:42 AM.

[Viersche]

I've had fun with my ecm Cataphract 0XP and it's limited hardpoints but that's due to being able to mount a UAC20 + 4MLs on the thing. Should be interesting to see if the same thing can be done on that Thunderbolt with MRMs or SRMs, not sure with the Dragon if something similar can be done, just hoping it gets a lot of armor quirks so i can use it for brawling.

[Nelos Kniven]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 February 2021 - 09:36 AM, said:

The Dragon is awful, and everybody who requested it should now feel ashamed for ruining a great opportunity.

I personally think its great. First off, it is almost certainly going to get loaded with quirks like all the other dragons. Second, torso energy hardpoints are perfect for poking. I did a theory build with 2 ERPPC, max armor, and max engine that will amount to a better Linebacker. Other options include SNPPC SRM4 brawler, 4 large pulse lasers, medium pulse SRM4 standard engine zombie build. I think it'll be a fun thing to mess with. Of course, if we could get some extra right arm energy points I certainly wouldn't argue with a flamer build...

[Gas Guzzler]

Alreech, on 21 February 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:

The Dragon is such disadvantage.
It takes up a heavy slot in the matchmaker, the same as a Warhammer or Marauder, so it's a waste of tonnage.
The CT missle hardpoints don't allow the use of big MRMs, so it's an disadvantage.

Which is exactly my point. Being at a disadvantage isn't the end of the world if its at least something unique. The Grand Dragon isn't even unique. 4E and 2M... Pretty sure there is a Quickdraw with the same hardpoints and JJs and the missiles aren't all in the CT.


I'll also remind you that this game turned into NASCAR fest because of all the efforts to make peaking and poking and map control tactics (you know, the stuff that requires your brain) not good, because a large section of the playerbase couldn't handle it. Now its just DPS and press W and hope your teammates don't decide to stop to pick their nose. Its a general statement and not every game is like that, but the vast majority of them are.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 February 2021 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'll also remind you that this game turned into NASCAR fest because of all the efforts to make peaking and poking and map control tactics (you know, the stuff that requires your brain) not good, because a large section of the playerbase couldn't handle it. Now its just DPS and press W and hope your teammates don't decide to stop to pick their nose. Its a general statement and not every game is like that, but the vast majority of them are.

Peeking and poking are still good though? For example laser vomit Hellbringers are great, MRM60 IV4 poptarts are beasts, and the 3 ERPPC Vape Eagle is one of the best mechs in the game. Dual Heavy Gauss is scary, etc. etc.

Edited by FupDup, 21 February 2021 - 11:32 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 21 February 2021 - 11:26 AM, said:

Peeking and poking are still good though? For example laser vomit Hellbringers are great, MRM60 IV4 poptarts are beasts, and the 3 ERPPC Vape Eagle is one of the best mechs in the game. Dual Heavy Gauss is scary, etc. etc.

Eh Dual Heavy goose can pump out 50 PPFLD repeatedly removing chunks of enemies without heat.... That's pretty legit sustained DPS. Those dual heavy goose mechs aren't really peaking and poking because they are fat and if you try to corner poke you can't really spread damage that well. Laser vomit Hellbringers are great and all but that doesn't change the nascar and DPS dumping that's going on everywhere. IV4 has a ton of DPS because of them quirks bro. So sure it can peak and poke and then when the push comes it pumps out a TON of DPS.

The 3 ERPPC vapor eagle is great unless it gets deathballed and won't put out great numbers unless the match gets drawn out. Mediums and lights are a little different and can engage earlier, but heavies and assaults have to put out DPS, not alpha centric builds.

Two Dires, one Dire Star laser-goose alpha, the other a bunch of autocannons. Which one is going to perform more consistently in Quick Play? Its not close.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 February 2021 - 11:49 AM.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 February 2021 - 11:48 AM, said:

Eh Dual Heavy goose can pump out 50 PPFLD repeatedly removing chunks of enemies without heat.... That's pretty legit sustained DPS. Those dual heavy goose mechs aren't really peaking and poking because they are fat and if you try to corner poke you can't really spread damage that well. Laser vomit Hellbringers are great and all but that doesn't change the nascar and DPS dumping that's going on everywhere. IV4 has a ton of DPS because of them quirks bro. So sure it can peak and poke and then when the push comes it pumps out a TON of DPS.

The 3 ERPPC vapor eagle is great unless it gets deathballed and won't put out great numbers unless the match gets drawn out. Mediums and lights are a little different and can engage earlier, but heavies and assaults have to put out DPS, not alpha centric builds.

Two Dires, one Dire Star laser-goose alpha, the other a bunch of autocannons. Which one is going to perform more consistently in Quick Play? Its not close.

You're defining DPS a lot differently than I am. I'm talking about weapons that shoot rapidly like MGs, UACs, RACs, and smaller ACs. Heavy Goose has no more DPS than an AC/20, what makes it deadlier is that it's got more concentrated damage (and other stats like velocity). MRMs can sustain over time pretty well but the main way they're used is to fire one salvo and get back to cover, which has a similar playstyle as a PPC mech (just with spread damage instead of pinpoint).

When I say peek or poke I mean shooting one salvo and then getting back to cover (or maybe several salvos if the weapons shoot fast enough like UACs). Outside of dakka mechs, that is how most people play. They shoot once and then get back to cover. They're poking/peeking.

As for the Daishi, yeah that mech generally has to do dakka because it doesn't have the mobility to get back to cover quickly. Any fight it gets into, it pretty much commits to by default so it synergizes with weapons that let you keep shooting longer.

Edited by FupDup, 21 February 2021 - 12:05 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 21 February 2021 - 11:58 AM, said:

You're defining DPS a lot differently than I am. I'm talking about weapons that shoot rapidly like MGs, UACs, RACs, and smaller ACs. Heavy Goose has no more DPS than an AC/20, what makes it deadlier is that it's got more concentrated damage (and other stats like velocity). MRMs can sustain over time pretty well but the main way they're used is to fire one salvo and get back to cover, which has a similar playstyle as a PPC mech (just with spread damage instead of pinpoint).

When I say peek or poke I mean shooting one salvo and then getting back to cover (or maybe several salvos if the weapons shoot fast enough like UACs). Outside of dakka mechs, that is how most people play. They shoot once and then get back to cover. They're poking/peeking.

Maybe because I typically play assaults I have a different experience. Most of the time you can't peak and poke, or if you can, pump out a high enough alpha, your sustained DPS is too low to put out good numbers.

I guess maybe the real reason is that SUSTAINED DPS is so much higher, big alpha assaults aren't viable. The same can be said to a lesser degree about heavies, but Clan mechs can get away with it because 2 slot DHS

And when I say peaklng and poking, I mean map control, not looking around the corner, shooting, waiting for teammates to nascar ahead of you, and then doing it again.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 February 2021 - 12:09 PM.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 February 2021 - 12:08 PM, said:

Maybe because I typically play assaults I have a different experience. Most of the time you can't peak and poke, or if you can, pump out a high enough alpha, your sustained DPS is too low to put out good numbers.

I guess maybe the real reason is that SUSTAINED DPS is so much higher, big alpha assaults aren't viable. The same can be said to a lesser degree about heavies, but Clan mechs can get away with it because 2 slot DHS

I do indeed play vastly different mechs than yours; my main mechs are mobile mediums and heavies.

I still maintain that dual Heavy Goose assaults, particular Faffies and Annis with supplementary lasers, are equally threatening or greater compared to something like a UAC/2 Ultra Violent. Those are admittedly kind of outliers though.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 21 February 2021 - 12:14 PM, said:

I do indeed play vastly different mechs than yours; my main mechs are mobile mediums and heavies.

I still maintain that dual Heavy Goose assaults, particular Faffies and Annis with supplementary lasers, are equally threatening or greater compared to something like a UAC/2 Ultra Violent. Those are admittedly kind of outliers though.

You never have to "cool off" for 50 PPFLD. That's why it works.

[Alreech]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 February 2021 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'll also remind you that this game turned into NASCAR fest because of all the efforts to make peaking and poking and map control tactics (you know, the stuff that requires your brain) not good, because a large section of the playerbase couldn't handle it. Now its just DPS and press W and hope your teammates don't decide to stop to pick their nose. Its a general statement and not every game is like that, but the vast majority of them are.

Well, at least the matches are short and the players don't have to bother with teamplay... (things i like in Call of Duty).
What did you expected? Players working as team, using team tactics? Play Battlefield.

NASCAR works well with the random teams in quickplay, no brain or teamwork requiered, and "Solo Quickplay is the most succesfull game mode of MWO" as some good player once told me.

Edited by Alreech, 21 February 2021 - 01:27 PM.

[jjm1]

OMG. Content.

Hope levels boosted to 10.2%.

[50 50]

Personally , I think to see something new(ish) added after all this time is great.
It's been a while.

It will be interesting to see what the quirks are, I wouldn't be surprised to see some PPC orientated ones for the Grand Dragon.

[Viersche]

Hopefully, they release the quirk list as well for the mechs soon.

[Rook CY]

Been secretly wanting a Grand Dragon for ages, so this is kinda cool to me honestly, especially after being gone from the game for quite a while now. I have to echo others in saying though, would *really* like a 2nd Energy hardpoint on the right arm, even though those two shoulder E points are gonna be awesome. I can tell looking through the variants that the 'rule' with this mech is exactly 6 weapon hardpoints, period, the end. I'd end one of those missile hardpoints and do a second on the right arm, personally....or else really quick up that right arm...otherwise it's gonna feel a little under-powered IMO.

Glad to see PGI getting back at it.

[Ruediger Steiner]

Daeron Katz, on 20 February 2021 - 12:22 PM, said:

The early adopter rewards are still available for an entire month AFTER release. So it will release, you will see them, and then you can decide for yourself.

Never again. That´s what i said to myself after buying my last mech pack over 2 years ago. Never again will i spend money for this game.
Give the Dragon some more energy hardpoints like suggested and i will buy it.
This deal is awesome. Giving people the "early" adopter rewards after release, is a great way to bring back some trust.
Tanks alot.

Edit: Just wanted to check the loadout for both mechs and MechDB already impemented them. Great site.
https://mech.nav-alpha.com/

Edited by Wishmast3r, 21 February 2021 - 11:26 PM.

[MechWpnsTech]

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunderbolt [color=#000000]One downside to the [/color]Thunderbolt[color=#000000] though is poor heat management.[/color]^[2]

[JC Daxion]

Sweet, i love that thunderbolt! Looking at the dragon is that an energy hard point on the right torso as well? It looks like it could but i dunno if that slot works. If so that would be a decent 2 laser hill poker.

For me i'm getting it for the thunderbolt, and those cockpit items are pretty nice too.

PS is MW5 getting a steam page anytime soon, it would be nice to add it to my wishlist.

[K4I 4LL4RD LI4O]

Preordered! Thx PGI for moving forward!!! Can't wait for April to come!

[Magik Jack]

LordNothing, on 19 February 2021 - 08:08 PM, said:

well done yes but these aren't the droids i was looking for.

Yup. Another Thunderbolt with mrms and energy weapons. Great.

Edited by Magik Jack, 22 February 2021 - 03:38 AM.