47 replies to this topic

[nopempele]

I don't know for you guys, but I have been watching this pattern for a while. Upon reaching a certain Tier score MM begins forcing defeats on me by picking out teams of really weak players against very decent ones. Like really weak, Tier 4-5 against Tier 1-2. I even recognize the nicknames from both sides of especially bad and especially good players.

This streak of forced defeats goes on until my score is diminished beyond a certain point when the trend is reversed. And this MM "swing" goes on and on in endless loop.

This is not fun or entertaining, quite the opposite. And it is not a good MM implementation, it's very straightforward.

[Meep Meep]

Losing streaks happen and they always stick in your mind more than winning streaks since frustration and anger naturally linger in your brain longer due to hardwired survival instincts. Jarl's shows you doing about as well as anyone else past the really top players and you don't meet them in game all that often. As to what tier a player is that isn't really all that reliant on skill since to lose tiers you have to be reaalllly bad and even average players can get to tier 1 sooner or later after enough games.

[nopempele]

But I do remember loosing streaks as well as winning streaks. The problem is that upon reaching a certain Tier score (for me personally it's halfway through the Tier 2) the MM starts "balancing" you by placing alongside weaker players against better ones. Like you are expected to carry them to the victory now (but I'm not that good). Then your score drops down and a more sane (or random) MM algorithm is used again. Until you reach that sweet spot again.

So it's not like you find your skill niche to play with and against people with relatively the same score. It's a "swing" which keeps pushing you up and down repeatedly which is frustrating to say the least. Perhaps, it's due to the low population of players, I dunno.

The idea of "balancing" a team by averaging the Tier score among players sucks. It's lazy programming. It should be more intelligent than that.

[Meep Meep]

I'm curious as to how you know your teams skill composition. Are you screenshotting each matches roster then using jarl's to see their rankings?

[crazytimes]

I am fairly confident there is a name for this phenomena. Not what you believe is occurring, but the phenomena of you having this belief.

ELO hell. Not actually a thing. There is almost certainly no grand conspiracy keeping you at Tier 2. The company gins no benefit of any sort from artificially placing you at any tier.

[Hunka Junk]

The programming it would take to set that up is way beyond PGI's ability.

[RockmachinE]

crazytimes, on 11 March 2021 - 06:31 PM, said:

I am fairly confident there is a name for this phenomena. Not what you believe is occurring, but the phenomena of you having this belief.

ELO hell. Not actually a thing. There is almost certainly no grand conspiracy keeping you at Tier 2. The company gins no benefit of any sort from artificially placing you at any tier.

The phenomena is called confirmation bias, you see, emphasize and focus on patters that affirm what you believe.

MM doesn't do this, there are too many variables to calculate how effective a mech will be in a given situation. Its not just "skill". Loadouts, player style, team cohesion, ping, build synergy, ecm, ams, biased builds to name a few. They all contribute in a given situation and can be better in certain scenarios and worse in others.

Going up in Tier is a reflection of how well you do against your team, if youre in the top percentile you always go up even if you lose.

Having played this game for a long time I assure you this is not the case its just the nature of the game, its not like an ordinary FPS where player skill is the main factor, there's way too much going on. Let it be what it is, embrace it and enjoy it and you might learn to love the game, don't focus on going up in Tiers as you naturally get better you will progress.

[RickySpanish]

Last night some friends and I tried over the course of two and a half hours to get our groups matched against each other by the MM. We failed to get even one match up. One team would often wait several minutes while the other would find a match sooner. As far as I know we're all tier 1, so what gives? There are also some players who I almost never see on my team, but usually meet on opposing teams. E.g. Jackal Noble - the rare games we spend on the same team are always a treat. So there's definitely an observable pattern in what the MM is doing, and it sure as sheet isn't anything relatable to balance.

[RickySpanish]

crazytimes, on 11 March 2021 - 06:31 PM, said:

I am fairly confident there is a name for this phenomena. Not what you believe is occurring, but the phenomena of you having this belief.

ELO hell. Not actually a thing. There is almost certainly no grand conspiracy keeping you at Tier 2. The company gins no benefit of any sort from artificially placing you at any tier.

Nah, I bet what it is, is the OP runs out of time playing matches during good population hours. At this point the MM craps the bed and OP gets shafted. That could account for sudden loss streaks that happen just as "things were beginning to improve". I notice a similar thing with my own games, where playing during certain times is really only useful for grinding 'Mechs SP because match quality is awful.

[ScrapIron Prime]

RickySpanish, on 12 March 2021 - 07:00 AM, said:

Nah, I bet what it is, is the OP runs out of time playing matches during good population hours. At this point the MM craps the bed and OP gets shafted. That could account for sudden loss streaks that happen just as "things were beginning to improve". I notice a similar thing with my own games, where playing during certain times is really only useful for grinding 'Mechs SP because match quality is awful.

True, certain times of day the matchmaker is forced to use any players at all to seat QP matches in a reasonable amount of time. Only higher population will fix that, that's a totally different thread!

[John Bronco]

RickySpanish, on 12 March 2021 - 06:56 AM, said:

Last night some friends and I tried over the course of two and a half hours to get our groups matched against each other by the MM. We failed to get even one match up. One team would often wait several minutes while the other would find a match sooner. As far as I know we're all tier 1, so what gives? There are also some players who I almost never see on my team, but usually meet on opposing teams. E.g. Jackal Noble - the rare games we spend on the same team are always a treat. So there's definitely an observable pattern in what the MM is doing, and it sure as sheet isn't anything relatable to balance.

My thinking on that is if you're playing during primetime it's because there are too many groups in the queue so you have to wait.

[Grus]

If you think you will lose before the match starts, you will find a way to make it happen...

[RickySpanish]

BlaizerP, on 12 March 2021 - 08:55 AM, said:

My thinking on that is if you're playing during primetime it's because there are too many groups in the queue so you have to wait.

That does make a lot of sense actually.

[Saved By The Bell]

Your defeat - your fault.

This weak, saw alone flea, did more then 1400 damage alone against 5 enemies. 1 vs 5
Saw Anni, did around 1500 damage, killed 8 enemies alone. Killed me too, when I was thinking about easy kill.

Superb guys are lurking in the game!

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 12 March 2021 - 11:55 AM.

[GARION26]

Louis Brofist, on 12 March 2021 - 01:39 AM, said:

Going up in Tier is a reflection of how well you do against your team, if youre in the top percentile you always go up even if you lose.

While I agree with almost everything you wrote. Going up in Tier is actually a function of how well you do against all 23 other players in the match.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Hello tier complaint thread #753.

[GARION26]

The other real possibility is when you go up in tier you play against better pilots and you lose more. That would explain the phenomenon you are describing

That's why I never understood why people strive to artificially inflate their match score to get into a higher tier - you play better opponents and you are more likely to be the weakest link on your team.

[Absaint]

99% of the complaints are because people are still looking at Tier as an experience bar.

Its not anymore, if you are only good enough to get to tier 2, you stay there. And thats fine. No amount of matches are going to make you better than ScoutDerek per example.

[Meep Meep]

Absaint, on 12 March 2021 - 04:12 PM, said:

99% of the complaints are because people are still looking at Tier as an experience bar.

Its not anymore, if you are only good enough to get to tier 2, you stay there. And thats fine. No amount of matches are going to make you better than ScoutDerek per example.

Gaining tiers is still a mostly upward grind even after the changes so as long as you contribute each match you will eventually get to tier 1. It's just harder to do now so it will take longer. Trust there are plenty of average players in tier 1.

[RockmachinE]

Meep Meep, on 12 March 2021 - 04:52 PM, said:

Gaining tiers is still a mostly upward grind even after the changes so as long as you contribute each match you will eventually get to tier 1. It's just harder to do now so it will take longer. Trust there are plenty of average players in tier 1.

But there are also a lot of players who can't make it there or stay up there apparently. It has to do with the overall playerbase, people are just not that good at the game so even T1 are simply not very good.