54 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

Mechs are slow. Really slow. We have huge, beautiful maps in which maybe only 5-10% of the playable area sees combat.

Mechs are slow. Really slow. Dodging is not a thing unless you're a 20 tonner going 135+ (and even that is largely because the models are so small).

What if Mechs moved faster? What if there was a good reason to use half or quarter throttle? What if players could actually choose non-central positions and respond to the positioning of the opfor? What if objectives were actually playable for anyone not in a Locust?

It almost sounds fun.

[JediPanther]

If the spawns weren't crap and people would quit lemming to the same exact spot all the time you'd have a ton of uses for the maps. Alpine in particular use to be very fun because people would do spots like radio tower h11 or even up in the hills up some very narrow paths wich allowed you easy wins since you could choke point and shoot down more at the enemy than the enemy could up.

Also the game can only handle mechs moving at certain speeds. Commando broke the game way back for moving too fast. It took years to get lct speed.

[FupDup]

How fast are you talking? And do you mean just adding an innate speed quirk to every mech? Do some get more than others? Do I ask too many questions, or not enough?

[Vlad Ward]

JediPanther, on 04 March 2021 - 03:35 PM, said:

If the spawns weren't crap and people would quit lemming to the same exact spot all the time you'd have a ton of uses for the maps. Alpine in particular use to be very fun because people would do spots like radio tower h11 or even up in the hills up some very narrow paths wich allowed you easy wins since you could choke point and shoot down more at the enemy than the enemy could up.

Also the game can only handle mechs moving at certain speeds. Commando broke the game way back for moving too fast. It took years to get lct speed.

Part of why people go to the same spot is because Mechs are really slow. When my team decides to go to a novel position in Polar Highlands, we end up wasting half of the match trudging back over to wherever the opfor ended up. Without an unspoken agreement to meet in the middle, a lot of matches would time out before resolving.

FupDup, on 04 March 2021 - 04:00 PM, said:

How fast are you talking? And do you mean just adding an innate speed quirk to every mech? Do some get more than others? Do I ask too many questions, or not enough?

My headcanon is Assaults moving at 200-250% current speed, Heavies at 200%, Mediums at 175%, and Lights at 150%. Obviously spitballing. I feel like it'd make maps usable and, bonus round, make dodging and aiming an actual thing. Honestly, Lights are only difficult to hit right now because they're so small. They'd probably need to be scaled up with a speed increase, but it's okay as long as it's fun.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 04 March 2021 - 04:11 PM.

[FupDup]

Vlad Ward, on 04 March 2021 - 04:10 PM, said:

My headcanon is Assaults moving at 200-250% current speed, Heavies at 200%, Mediums at 175%, and Lights at 150%. Obviously spitballing. I feel like it'd make maps usable and, bonus round, make dodging and aiming an actual thing. Honestly, Lights are only difficult to hit right now because they're so small. They'd probably need to be scaled up with a speed increase, but it's okay as long as it's fun.

Giving higher bonuses to big mechs seems like it could really mess up class balance, given that the big bois already tend to be the higher performers statistically speaking.

And also even the smallest bonus is too huge in terms of how much it would change gameplay (biggest slowest assaults going 90+ kph). Something like the old speed tweak value of just 10% would be plenty fine (some mechs get more or less depending on how good they are).

Edited by FupDup, 04 March 2021 - 04:15 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

I think we should try out the size first. Mechs are just too damn big. If they were smaller, the distance between them would feel longer, the lower height above the ground would make mechs feel like they are moving a bit faster.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 March 2021 - 04:18 PM.

[dario03]

Vlad Ward, on 04 March 2021 - 04:10 PM, said:

My headcanon is Assaults moving at 200-250% current speed, Heavies at 200%, Mediums at 175%, and Lights at 150%. Obviously spitballing. I feel like it'd make maps usable and, bonus round, make dodging and aiming an actual thing. Honestly, Lights are only difficult to hit right now because they're so small. They'd probably need to be scaled up with a speed increase, but it's okay as long as it's fun.

That would put 100t ~300engined assaults in the 100-120kph range with fast assaults in the 160-200kph range before skills and masc. The Linebacker would only do 194kph, 40t mediums would be faster than 35t lights with the same engine, fast lights would only be at about 230kph. Seems like that would push people more toward assaults.

[PocketYoda]

Because this is battletech. Western mech games are slow lumbering giants that burn each other down.. If you want fast speedy mechs i suggest Japanese or Asian mech games. They are the standard speedy fare.. Things like Gundam and Macross etc.

I personally prefer the older 80's western mechs.. Slow feels accurate to Battletech.

Edited by Samial, 04 March 2021 - 05:51 PM.

[John Bronco]

BT mechs aren't slow or lumbering in the lore, so that's purely your preference.

If there ever comes to pass an event queue this would be a fun idea for it. It would be nice to nascar at appropriate speeds.

[Theodore]

There was a mech game called hawken that was a really fast paced game, and I had a blast playing it but... the game died.

There is also a game IP called Titanfall 1 & 2, which I still enjoy playing.

Personally, I do not know what is the better choice, slow or fast. But I do know that sadly, Hawken failed and MWO still has active servers.

[PocketYoda]

Per pg20 Total Warfare, 'Mechs "stand eight to fourteen meters tall".

Per pg31 Total Warfare, one level is "approximately 6 meters high, waist-high to a 'Mech. ... "Level 2 terrain is approximately twelve meters high, roughly the same high as a BattleMech."

The standard height of 'Mechs is 12 meters: 2 levels. See p. 99 Total Warfare: 'Mechs are 2 levels high.

As per the game rules so i'm wrong Atlas isn't 19 meters its 13 meters

Some officially stated sizes
Taken from here
https://mwomercs.com...ers-or-bananas/
And here
https://bg.battletec...re-battlemechs/

From what I have
Yu Huang = 13m Threads of ambition
Vixen under 13m Ghost of Winter (ceiling was 13m high with the top of the mech being a few meters lower)
Jupiter = 13m A Call to arms
Victor = 14m lethal heritage, Sword and dagger seems to agree (roughly 1/3rd the height of a 45m tall wall, though the book supposedly also mentions it's around 10 meters tall?)
Hatcheman = 11m lethal heritage
Centurion 10+ meter
Firestarter = 12m Heir to the dragon
Gallowglas = 10 meter highlander gambit
Marauder =12m Thunder rift
Shadow hawk Mercenary star =10m?
Warhammer =10m Shrapnel
Atlas =13m Shrapnel
Vindicator =9m tall
Phoenix Hawk =11m lethal heritage
Goliath =nearly 12m Warrior ripost
Locust =10m Warrior coupa
Crusader =10m Assumption of risk

This largely comes from a DA era book called the Technology of destruction IIRC...
Phoenix Hawk 11m
Victor 14m
Atlas 13m
Black Hawk 9m
Black Knight 11m
Catapult 11m -12m to the top of the missile racks
Centurion 11m
Cougar 10m
Firestarter 10m
Hatchetman 11m
Locust 10m
Mad Cat III 11m
Mongoose II 10m
Shadow Cat II 11m
Spider 11m
Thor 11m -12m if you count the shoulder-mounted missile rack
Thunderbolt 12m
Uller 9m
Vulture 11m
Wolfhound 11m
Zeus 12m
Bushwacker just under 8m
Annihilator 12m
Legionnaire 12m

BlaizerP, on 04 March 2021 - 05:11 PM, said:

BT mechs aren't slow or lumbering in the lore, so that's purely your preference.

If there ever comes to pass an event queue this would be a fun idea for it. It would be nice to nascar at appropriate speeds.

Compared to Asian Mechs they are.. Obviously LAMs would move more like Asian mechs..

Edit
I checked my Total Warfare tabletop book and those page numbers are accurate as of the latest edition.

Edited by Samial, 04 March 2021 - 09:23 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

when the Mechs faster ,the Animations must make new ...running animations (like the original BT Idea) here only doubled the stepspeed and it looks terrible , especially without IK for Feets,Legs and hips when lights slide over the Terrain and the stepspeed not in Synchronisation with the speed

[Theodore]

Lockheed_, on 04 March 2021 - 05:18 PM, said:

Hawken was a great game. I loved the speed, using boosters to dodge and even do some aerial maneuvers. I pretty much came to MWO because they shut down Hawken.

I do miss Hawken, it really was fun!

[AncientRaig]

I feel the problem is less "mechs are slow" and more "mechs aren't agile". PGI's been on a crusade against high turn, acceleration, and deceleration rates for years now. If you could actually make use of the fact that you are a MECH to stop and start moving more quickly than a tracked vehicle, you might be able to dodge fire and move about the map more. But when it takes 8 seconds for a mech to go from 0 to its top speed, or from its top speed to a stop, you can't dodge anything.

[Anjian]

Theodore, on 04 March 2021 - 05:11 PM, said:

There was a mech game called hawken that was a really fast paced game, and I had a blast playing it but... the game died.

There is also a game IP called Titanfall 1 & 2, which I still enjoy playing.

Personally, I do not know what is the better choice, slow or fast. But I do know that sadly, Hawken failed and MWO still has active servers.

You can still play Hawken on the PS4.

[PocketYoda]

Reading a lot of the Sarna websites the mechs default speeds are slightly off.. Most IS Assaults are 54kph.. not 48.6 kph. Outside of that they all seem pretty close bar the mad cat.. its like 86.4 kph.

Commando is 97kph
Locust is 129kph

Edited by Samial, 04 March 2021 - 09:33 PM.

[Anjian]

Theodore, on 04 March 2021 - 05:11 PM, said:

Personally, I do not know what is the better choice, slow or fast. But I do know that sadly, Hawken failed and MWO still has active servers.

There is an increasingly popular game called Mech Arena that is not too fast, not too slow. It has light mechs that are fast, medium mechs that can dash, slower mechs that can tank. The game's combat style reminds me of Hawken but there is still a sense of inertia, momentum, and weight that Hawken lacks, except with Hawken's tanky mechs. The thing is, you can dodge and evade a lot of fire in Mech Arena, making it predominantly skill based, not power based.

Edited by Anjian, 04 March 2021 - 09:40 PM.

[Anjian]

Samial, on 04 March 2021 - 05:52 PM, said:

Compared to Asian Mechs they are.. Obviously LAMs would move more like Asian mechs..

Edit
I checked my Total Warfare tabletop book and those page numbers are accurate as of the latest edition.

There is a game called Gundam Battle Operations 2 you can play on the PS4 right now. Its team vs. team combat using Gundams and other mechs from the Universal Century, not Gundams from the alternative universes. Its not a slow game, but its not a fast game either, and it certainly isn't FPS-fast.

Edited by Anjian, 04 March 2021 - 09:47 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Samial, on 04 March 2021 - 09:32 PM, said:

Reading a lot of the Sarna websites the mechs default speeds are slightly off.. Most IS Assaults are 54kph.. not 48.6 kph. Outside of that they all seem pretty close bar the mad cat.. its like 86.4 kph.

Commando is 97kph
Locust is 129kph

I think it's because PGI had to account for Speed Tweak.

[Anjian]

AncientRaig, on 04 March 2021 - 07:49 PM, said:

I feel the problem is less "mechs are slow" and more "mechs aren't agile". PGI's been on a crusade against high turn, acceleration, and deceleration rates for years now. If you could actually make use of the fact that you are a MECH to stop and start moving more quickly than a tracked vehicle, you might be able to dodge fire and move about the map more. But when it takes 8 seconds for a mech to go from 0 to its top speed, or from its top speed to a stop, you can't dodge anything.

PGI trying to make MWO more like World of Tanks with legs.