801 replies to this topic

[ShooterMcGavin80]

Seems like we're back to peakwarrior online, with PPC's ruling the day.

[Nightbird]

ShooterMcGavin80, on 18 March 2021 - 04:37 PM, said:

Seems like we're back to peakwarrior online, with PPC's ruling the day.

Who is right? You or the people saying PPCs are nerfed and useless? I'm confused.

[Albert C]

Nightbird, on 18 March 2021 - 04:40 PM, said:

Who is right? You or the people saying PPCs are nerfed and useless? I'm confused.

They are nerfed when used at close range. But buffed when used for med to long range sniping(especially clan erppc). The decision making and aiming time sort of makes up for the longer cool down as (usually) those weapons won't be utilzed at maxinum rof when sniping. Kinda sucks in self defence as I have tried several times these 2 days. The real problem is the normal gauss rifle which wasn't easy to use already. The increased dmg does not compensate for the long cool down, effectively makes it a much more weakened version of MW4 gauas, which the latter has similar cycle time but higher dmg, god tier projectile velocity and no manual charge time.

[Voice of Kerensky]

nopempele, on 18 March 2021 - 05:42 AM, said:

Hmm, come to think of, I've actually had the same experience. At the time I just shrugged it off blaming it on the network lag or something. Could it be related to the recent EU server migration?

I am not inclined to associate this phenomenon with server relocation.
I confess, I did not notice on which server (NA or EU) I had this failure.
But. Some time has passed between the server move and the introduction of this patch. And before the introduction of this patch, I did not sight such problems and my fellow soldiers did not talk about them either.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Nightbird, on 18 March 2021 - 04:40 PM, said:

Who is right? You or the people saying PPCs are nerfed and useless? I'm confused.

Who is right? Both points of view are correct. Just remember that these points of view are expressed by people with different skills in playing the PPC.
Read this post of mine:
https://mwomercs.com...15#entry6383715

Perhaps you will find the answer to your question.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 18 March 2021 - 04:40 PM, said:

Who is right? You or the people saying PPCs are nerfed and useless? I'm confused.

I'd say it's the guys who know how to play point-and-click adventure well, and that is the comp.

Don't look at me, I ain't comp, I just hang out with them time to time.

I would say it's an overall nerf as far is role-warfare is concerned. Yes you can do well, even better with peekers, but that comes at the caveat that PPC snipers are far more easily pushed back by a coordinated team, and isn't that viable outside of their incredibly punctuated role of sniping. With regards to low-skill, I honestly think this is much more of a detriment to them, because PPCs are even less forgiving.

[Isaiah Kell]

Daeron Katz, on 17 March 2021 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hello all, I've been spending the last two days reading the forum threads, monitoring Twitch chats, and reading all the feedback sent to me through email, Discord, Twitter, etc. As you might imagine, as this is already a 34 page thread, the amount of feedback has been substantial.

I'm just making a quick post to let you know that Matt and I will be addressing this patch, future patches, Quarter 2 development, the overall MWO Roadmap, and more in a Dev Vlog this week. In the meantime, continue with the feedback, venting, or anything else you want to get across to us.

PLEASE JUST DE-NERF THE LIGHT GAUSS. IT'S A DEAD WEAPON SYSTEM. BRING IT BACK TO LIFE (was it ever good?)

The6thMessenger, on 18 March 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

I'd say it's the guys who know how to play point-and-click adventure well, and that is the comp.

Don't look at me, I ain't comp, I just hang out with them time to time.

I would say it's an overall nerf as far is role-warfare is concerned. Yes you can do well, even better with peekers, but that comes at the caveat that PPC snipers are far more easily pushed back by a coordinated team, and isn't that viable outside of their incredibly punctuated role of sniping. With regards to low-skill, I honestly think this is much more of a detriment to them, because PPCs are even less forgiving.

Yes Messenger, after the patch, I feel like every PPC shot counts even more and it hurts me in the feels if I miss...

[RenegadeMaster88]

After an initial gut reaction against the PPC changes, i have been trying a Dual HPPC Grasshopper 5H (a great mech i never noticed thank you! Looking forward to Jump Jets buff for heavies), and its doesnt feel so bad as the H-PPC heat is so extreme you usually have to cool for 7 seconds anyway. However id rather have the choice to shoot, rather than not be allowed to due to cooldown. Maybe 6s would be better.

The tripple H-PPC Awesome has been fun to play at this time, so its not all bad news. It is however not an easy mech to pilot.

In a game where you shoot robots reducing how much you can shoot robots is less fun.

However i feel the Light PPC "buff" was just cruel, why did it get an even longer cooldown than all the others? The light PPC needs to do something different from 1/2 a PPC, and chain shot was its only strength.

Same for Light Gauss, already not a popular weapon, i dont feel its DPS was OP, but giving it a 20% debuff makes it pretty useless.

Guass weapons dont produce much heat, so the extra cooldown is just a flat nerf.

I would like to see the average DPS charts for different weapons, to see why these nerfs were thought to be justified.

Edited by RenegadeMaster88, 19 March 2021 - 03:29 AM.

[Hexidecimark]

In order to build a sniping, long-ranged weapon, you need to make that weapon potent- to explain, for a sniper rifle to be 'balanced' with a battle rifle, even for it to warrant existing, it has to perform a function that is both useful and which the battle rifle cannot accomplish, while the battle rifle should be doing roughly the same. After all, if your battle rifle performs better than your sniper rifle at sniping, there's no reason to make a sniper rifle.

Can the gauss snipe? Yes. Can the PPC snipe? Yes. Can another weapon snipe? YES, the AC/2, AC/5, LLs, and ATMs can be made to deal very long ranged damage. So the gauss and PPC, given that the gauss lost its range advantage, and the PPC is a miniaturized star, do not fit into a niche.

If we take the game as if it were canon, then there is no reason to invent a gauss rifle, nor is there reason to develop a PPC- a binary laser, HVAC, or similar can service a unit FAR better than they can, because the average engagement is so likely to be close ranged and punish slow-firing weaponry for missing that simply giving a force more UAC/2s and LBX systems is infinitely more helpful than missing a shot and then being disassembled by a pack of piranhas with small lasers.

What you need to do to establish a niche for these weapons is to allow them to excel in their roles, not diminish their usefulness in every other role. A gauss rifle is 17 to less than 750m, a PPC to barely over 800m. LRMs are generally effective to this range, and ATMs to over a kilo, making them the longest ranged weapon around in terms of where something should be used. A large laser is even more useful sniping than gauss where optimal ranges are concerned.

Logically, then, what use does gauss provide currently? An ERLL beats it for range, tonnage, slots, ammo use, crit danger, cooldown, and can be configured to beat it for damage if you link multiples up. It takes a second to charge up during which time the ERLL/PPC user has already returned to hiding, and the same user outranges you.

What about the PPC? I have to sit around and do nothing at all for 7s because the worthless things are cooking me off, preventing me from using other guns, and they don't reload until then. Again ERLL beats it, because for IS it's more flexible, cooler, and smaller, so you can fit something else in alongside the ERLL while the PPC is now a worthless overspecialized weapon.

In both cases, we use these weapons on maps which are cover rich, which means that direct fire weapons are already at a remarkable disadvantage- even if you brought AMS, you can't afford the heat, slot, and weight costs of PPCs alongside it, and I can bring weapons to close on you with that gauss that you had to give up because it's 6s 12t in the best case, which is equal to six MPLs that I can cool with the tonnage & slots you lost in paying for ammo. I have to dodge out of a few of your shots, sure, but between them I have ample time to find cover- your gauss or PPC 'mech feels like a mackie going against a triskelion, because you're too clunky to turn to face me, you're under-armed, and you have to either successfully guess at pre-charges to your shots or I have to be slow and predictable getting to cover.

Give me a reason to use the sniper rifle.

Edited by Hexidecimark, 18 March 2021 - 11:30 PM.

[RJF Volkodav]

Nightbird, on 18 March 2021 - 04:40 PM, said:

Who is right? You or the people saying PPCs are nerfed and useless? I'm confused.

I'll help with the math . This patch is a straghtforward boost to heatcapped PPC mechs i.e. PPC boats with 3+ PPCs used, especially those Clantech VGLs, WHM-IIC, WHK etc, as now you have better damage per heat value. And it is straightforward nerf for non heat capped mechs like dual PPC Summoner etc as this builds have 20% less DPS. The only thing that dual PPC mechs could use now more free tonnage removing some heatsinks, but as long as there are no lightweight weapon to sync with PPCs that does not really matter. And you can now boat effectively 4 CERPPCs on WHM-IIC, WHK, SNV, MC-IIC, MAD-IIC, EBJ, SNS, RFL-IIC, NTG and even ON1-IIC and 3CERPPS on a tons of other mechs. Yeah, PGI just brought us more boating options and removed sense from dual PPC utilization, so could you pls stop spreading this nonsense about "PPC buff", its "PPC boats buff". PPC as a standalone weapon been made useless.

Edited by RJF Volkodav, 19 March 2021 - 12:45 AM.

[Bone Machine]

crazytimes, on 18 March 2021 - 02:15 PM, said:

The EXE with MASC is just lulz now. Feels like your locked on a train track. Makes it hard to try and use the MASC to keep up with the NASCAR as you can't make.a tight enough left turn.

Try running a f*ing SHC now, and cry. Congrats for killing pretty much the entire game in one patch for me, PGI.

[RockmachinE]

RenegadeMaster88, on 18 March 2021 - 07:59 PM, said:

In a game where you shoot robots reducing how much you can shoot robots is less fun.

Lol I'm using this as my new signature. There's so much going on here. The entire discourse of this patch and the entire premise of this freaking game, but also a warning to developers reduced and simplified into one basic sentence.

This is brilliant

Edited by Louis Brofist, 19 March 2021 - 01:24 AM.

[Serenna187]

So the Veagle ppc poptart spam is stronger than ever and more prominent than before.gj pgi.Maybe simply add crosshair shake while midair/falling and end this one trick pony lifestyle already

[KursedVixen]

Serenna187, on 19 March 2021 - 01:26 AM, said:

So the Veagle ppc poptart spam is stronger than ever and more prominent than before.gj pgi.Maybe simply add crosshair shake while midair/falling and end this one trick pony lifestyle already

won't matter people will find a way around it.

[LaCiupakabra]

Hi guys,
Just started testing new MASK on my belowed FLEA-20.
I'm missing Deceleration Boost and the Turn Boost. The last one is the most needed.
Flea is not that swift anymore.
I would rather go with shorter boost time with the Turn Boost and Deceleration Boost as was before.

Thanks!

Edited by LaCiupakabra, 19 March 2021 - 02:47 AM.

[Curccu]

Serenna187, on 19 March 2021 - 01:26 AM, said:

Maybe simply add crosshair shake while midair/falling and end this one trick pony lifestyle already

Why? There is no need to kill poptarting/jumpsniping it has been part of the game since forever.

[mytilus edulis]

Overall the changes made me stop playing a bunch of mechs because they're just flat out bad now.

And unexpectedly, they also made me stop playing a bunch of mechs because even though they're actually better now in terms of average damage per match, they're not as fun to play.

I'm pretty much sticking to dakka/ATM/MRM spam now, and it's getting old fast.

The changes are so severe that it's like a 180 from a week ago when I was so excited to complete the first event phase. Now I couldn't gaf because completing the second, although probably super easy, just doesn't sound fun. And the reward is an HPPC poptart which I already have something that can do it and I know it's not a fun build even if it got buffed.

Edited by mytilus edulis, 19 March 2021 - 03:24 AM.

[Mechdocdie]

MASC test part 3 - the Spirit Bear.

First impression...
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With a native turn speed of 44.62 deg/s it was already a bit of a challenge as a brawler but the new MASC settings reduce that by twenty percent. That's 35.7 deg/s. That's a whole second difference in a 90 degree turn. The longer MASC duration is a bit more helpful to get into brawling range but once there you're in deep trouble, with this recent change compounding the longstanding mobility nerfs this once proud mech labours under. I had a King Crab doing a circle of death around me at one stage and the MASC meant he nearly got behind me until I overcame my reflex and stopped using it. That's just madness and takes the last bit of fun out of this mech.

I have a LURM build for the Spiti Bear which I tried as well. I felt dirty but it gave me my highest match score over a dozen games I played split between LURM boat and brawler. The MASC was very helpful for re-positioning but once you are in position it's a long, slow turn bringing your guns to bear and lock a target.

I was thinking of trying my Cherbi next but I'm too upset. I'll try my Flea instead

[DeadWeight18]

Waiting now for the long overdue Dev Vlog 1 for March.

[sinba1ew]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 March 2021 - 12:29 PM, said:

Constructive Feedback:

Still open about most PPCs but the cooldown feels "unfunly" and frustratingly long.


Gauss (Clan and IS) cooldown is too long, its not a strong weapon.
LGauss doesn't do enough DPS.

MASC: If anything, this is something that has felt underpowered and underused. I like being able to hold it for a long time, but I don't like how long its cooldown is. I think we should revert all the negative changes and just keep the slower fill rate and try like that.

They did cut both recharge and the meter usage....so ou end up with same uptime....
meaning if You were actually not wasting Your masc leting it gather dust, than it is straight up massive nerf....
it only buffs snipers who want to run to new position 2000meters to get to cover first IMO