41 replies to this topic

[Gagis]

Hellfires all have MASC and were balanced for that with absolutely horrifyingly low base agility values.

Hellfire A was a decent brawler despite its fragility because of its masc-enabled nimbleness. Go and try how it feels with its dismal base agility now, and then add new masc turn rate penalty on top.

[Grus]

Interesting, I've never had a feeling of concern when facing a Exe. So now they are even easier to kill. Win win in my book.

[LordBraxton]

Grus, on 17 March 2021 - 07:53 AM, said:

Interesting, I've never had a feeling of concern when facing a Exe. So now they are even easier to kill. Win win in my book.

You are glad they are nerfing mechs that were already underpowered?

Are you stupid, or just an *******?

Your stats are a solid margin worse than my mediocre stats, you shouldnt be happy that PGI is pushing me into meta builds instead of my hipster mechs.

Edited by LordBraxton, 17 March 2021 - 09:28 AM.

[The Mysterious Fox]

masc mechs provided unique gameplay, now its just another brown sea of knuckle dragging assaults with tonnage given to a useless component

[LordBraxton]

The Mysterious Fox, on 17 March 2021 - 11:28 AM, said:

masc mechs provided unique gameplay, now its just another brown sea of knuckle dragging assaults with tonnage given to a useless component

yep I might as well sell my EXE and buy another mad cat 2 or something meta.

just go 70kph with max alpha, another playstyle destroyed.

[pbiggz]

MASC should always have been a sprint and the mechs that needed the maneuverability from it should have that maneuverability passively. The executioner being the example in this thread, should be as agile as a medium, considering its about as well armed as one. If it was, then the sprint would actually feel like a boon, so i get why you're mad about it, i just think the way to fix it is to fix the executioner, not make masc into a crutch for it to stand on.

[Heavy Money]

pbiggz, on 17 March 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

MASC should always have been a sprint and the mechs that needed the maneuverability from it should have that maneuverability passively. The executioner being the example in this thread, should be as agile as a medium, considering its about as well armed as one. If it was, then the sprint would actually feel like a boon, so i get why you're mad about it, i just think the way to fix it is to fix the executioner, not make masc into a crutch for it to stand on.

The basic idea of having a mech with below average agility that can temporarily make it far above average is fine. It offers an advantage for those who have the skill to do it. Wasn't inherently anything wrong with this model.

[pbiggz]

Heavy Money, on 17 March 2021 - 01:53 PM, said:

The basic idea of having a mech with below average agility that can temporarily make it far above average is fine. It offers an advantage for those who have the skill to do it. Wasn't inherently anything wrong with this model.

for a shooter game like mechwarrior, the problem was the executioner does not have lots of guns. its 95 tons and at best it can match a vapour eagle in firepower. I would very much like it to be better, i think the way to do that is to make it as maneuverable as the eagle, that way its top speed keeps it more in line with assault mechs, but its turn rate and acceleration is far superior. With that as a baseline, MASC becomes a tool in its arsenal, not the entire arsenal.

[Heavy Money]

pbiggz, on 17 March 2021 - 01:56 PM, said:

for a shooter game like mechwarrior, the problem was the executioner does not have lots of guns. its 95 tons and at best it can match a vapour eagle in firepower. I would very much like it to be better, i think the way to do that is to make it as maneuverable as the eagle, that way its top speed keeps it more in line with assault mechs, but its turn rate and acceleration is far superior. With that as a baseline, MASC becomes a tool in its arsenal, not the entire arsenal.

The executioner has problems, but you are exaggerating a bit. It can do energy loadouts far beyond what the Veagle can. And the veagle is an overpowered anomaly that punches far above its weight, so it shouldn't be used as a comparison point for anything.

Making a 95 ton assault that maneuverable would also be a strange anomaly. The problem executioner has 2 types of problem: 1 is that its a funky chassis with terrible size and hitboxes. A rescale and perhaps some armor perks could help with this. The other problems are that its an omnimech locked into a large engine. There's a fair amount of mechs in the game that are deprived of firepower due to this issue.

We need a way to address the problem of undergunned omnimchs in general, and then also some executioner specific attention. Trying to fix all of it by just tossing a medium's level of maneuverability on the executioner isnn't a real fix, and will just leave it as a different sort of gimmick mech, or break it entirely.

[LordBraxton]

MASC in the lore adds movement points. Movement points = turning.

It shouldnt be a sprint, it was better as is and you all probably never used it anyway.

Nobody was running the EXE all the time except me apparently so why the **** should we ruin the game for the few people who actually loved the much maligned chassis?

The EXE is built around MASC. It WAS its crutch. Now its garbage, and btw it's never going to get fixed. Its just going to be useless forever like 80% of my other mechs.

PGI makes like 2 changes a year, a change like this means my mech is trash FOREVER.

Enjoy this dying dumpster fire of a game

Edited by LordBraxton, 17 March 2021 - 04:15 PM.

[panzer1b]

its a joke, my 1st mech i ever bought is now dead at anything but poptarting (which is pretty much what everyone did in it anyways). Speed boosting is imo not worth the tonnage, but ofc, we cant strip MASC out of omnis for some dumb reason.

Anyways, the ONLY way i will get behind these changes is if they allow us to strip MASC out of mechs that have it locked. Ill take 2 extra DHS on a shadowcat (or 4 on a EXE) over the arguably useless speed boost any day. Maybee i just used masc wrong, but for me it was all about cutting down retreat/exposure time when poking, and to make some knife fighting moves that normally would never be done (EXE could actually twist fast enough to outtwist most light mechs that tried to backhump you).

So yeah, either revert this change, or at the bare minimum let us strip MASC out of clam omnis (it was already give/take and situational before the patch, now its just not worth the tonnage (for that tonnage extra DHS or larger engine (on non-mnis) is almost exvlusively a smarter choice now).

[LordBraxton]

panzer1b, on 17 March 2021 - 05:54 PM, said:

its a joke, my 1st mech i ever bought is now dead at anything but poptarting (which is pretty much what everyone did in it anyways). Speed boosting is imo not worth the tonnage, but ofc, we cant strip MASC out of omnis for some dumb reason.

Anyways, the ONLY way i will get behind these changes is if they allow us to strip MASC out of mechs that have it locked. Ill take 2 extra DHS on a shadowcat (or 4 on a EXE) over the arguably useless speed boost any day. Maybee i just used masc wrong, but for me it was all about cutting down retreat/exposure time when poking, and to make some knife fighting moves that normally would never be done (EXE could actually twist fast enough to outtwist most light mechs that tried to backhump you).

So yeah, either revert this change, or at the bare minimum let us strip MASC out of clam omnis (it was already give/take and situational before the patch, now its just not worth the tonnage (for that tonnage extra DHS or larger engine (on non-mnis) is almost exvlusively a smarter choice now).

they should just revert the change, I dont think anyone ever said MASC was OP, so if they were trying to buff it they failed, laughably so, and it shows how little they play\understand or care about this game.

[The Mysterious Fox]

pbiggz, on 17 March 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

MASC should always have been a sprint and the mechs that needed the maneuverability from it should have that maneuverability passively. The executioner being the example in this thread, should be as agile as a medium, considering its about as well armed as one. If it was, then the sprint would actually feel like a boon, so i get why you're mad about it, i just think the way to fix it is to fix the executioner, not make masc into a crutch for it to stand on.

lol agility got nuked from rescale, skill tree, engine desync and additional nerfs over the years and now masc as well. it took us years heckling pgi to even give the atlas back a tiny bit of torso twisting.

its just a bizarre mindset that just punishes high skill play and fun in general

Edited by The Mysterious Fox, 17 March 2021 - 08:43 PM.

[Grus]

LordBraxton, on 17 March 2021 - 09:02 AM, said:

You are glad they are nerfing mechs that were already underpowered?

Are you stupid, or just an *******?

Your stats are a solid margin worse than my mediocre stats, you shouldnt be happy that PGI is pushing me into meta builds instead of my hipster mechs.

I'm sorry, who are you again?

Do me a favor. Go outside, go up to a tree, and apologize to it for wasting oxygen it worked so hard to make.


Now, by all means if you want to use the Exe its fine and dandy. You like the looks, the feel, the way the seat caresses your backside. FINE! Nothing wrong with that. Just understand, that when the rest of us look at that mech with disdain and question your thought line on why in the world you brought that mech... don't get pissy.

[w0qj]

Don't be mean.
I also strongly feel that this MASC nerf March-2021 should be rolled back.

An entire class of MASC mechs have been made obsolete overnight, out of the blue,
and for no apparent reason, and with no prior consultation.
And players have made substantial investments in MASC mech chasis, be it MC or C-Bills...

No, I do not use MASC as my main mech chasis, but I do strongly feel about this this MASC nerf March-2021 should be rolled back.

Grus, on 18 March 2021 - 11:34 AM, said:

I'm sorry, who are you again?

Do me a favor. Go outside, go up to a tree, and apologize to it for wasting oxygen it worked so hard to make.


Now, by all means if you want to use the Exe its fine and dandy. You like the looks, the feel, the way the seat caresses your backside. FINE! Nothing wrong with that. Just understand, that when the rest of us look at that mech with disdain and question your thought line on why in the world you brought that mech... don't get pissy.

Edited by w0qj, 18 March 2021 - 01:55 PM.

[Epic_Gun]

Yeah roll it back. Nothing good came out of it.
Did it balance the meta? No.
It just worsened mechs that are already... not at the top...

[pbiggz]

for the record the MASC changes make the shadowcat god tier. I still think passive buffs to maneuverability for mechs that relied on mask is a better way of solving this problem.

[ScrapIron Prime]

From a Lore point of view, this is the change that bothers me. MASC added movement points to a mech using it. It did not say what you could and could not DO with those movement points, so mechs in the board game could and did turn corners with them.

Implementing MASC in MWO such that it is only good for roadrunner straight line sprints is completely missing the point. You paid how many tons and spaces for this widget?? Let it make you nimble!

[FupDup]

pbiggz, on 18 March 2021 - 03:09 PM, said:

for the record the MASC changes make the shadowcat god tier. I still think passive buffs to maneuverability for mechs that relied on mask is a better way of solving this problem.

I think MASC needs to be stronger in general so that being locked with it is seen as a blessing or at least not a curse. Whether it should be stronger via a greater speed boost, greater agility, or some of both can be debated. But it definitely needs to be made stronger than its pre-patch state.

The Battlemechs that have MASC ability generally have weaker hardpoints and/or quirks because PGI is subtracting MASC from that mech's "power budget" (though the Wolvie is a outlier in that it has good quirks and hardpoints despite MASC capability).

[Wildstreak]

THe only problem I had with my EXEs is only 2 decent builds, 1 for LOLs but 5 chassis bought / given so I got 2 sitting around because I just do not like copying the same build on multiple variants.

Edited by Wildstreak, 18 March 2021 - 07:31 PM.