400 replies to this topic

[RJF Volkodav]

Good news! Thx Gulag guys for your efforts!

[Prince of Kyrgyzstan]

This piece of news is great to see, but now just to see if PGI delivers this PTS properly and what parts of the PTS carries over to the main game.

[Y E O N N E]

LordNothing, on 19 March 2021 - 12:22 AM, said:

the thing that shuts it down ought to be the heat, not a dice roll. you can nudge the heat up at the high end so its really dangerous to fullbar it, if that weakens its performance then compensate by reducing the spin up time. its just got too many gochas going for it.

But it's still consistent and useful and, if you are actually bringing enough RACs, the heat does shut you down.

The weapon has some wonkiness to it, but its minimum level of performance is where it needs to be. You are suggesting a change that contributes nothing to the game and only serves to calm whatever OCD you have about it. I promise you, the RAC/5 in the gulag patch have a devastating effect on target...especially if you are firing 3 at a time.

[Bennesto]

Hell, it's about time!

[Navid A1]

Added an easier to read full list of changes to the first post

Edited by Navid A1, 23 March 2021 - 08:44 PM.

[Curccu]

Navid A1, on 19 March 2021 - 01:03 AM, said:

Added an easier to read full list of changes to the first post

[color=#66FFFF]Light PPC (IS):[/color]
[color=#66FFFF]Heat decreased to 4.5 (from 3.25)[/color]

[invernomuto]

Navid A1, on 18 March 2021 - 07:59 PM, said:

PPC (IS):
Heat decreased to 9.0 (from 9.5)
Velocity increased to 1400 m/s (from 1200)
Minimum heat penalty level increased to 4 (from 3) – Fire 3 with no penalty.

Snub Nose PPC (IS):
Heat decreased to 7.0 (from 10)
Minimum heat penalty level increased to 4 (from 3) – Fire 3 with no penalty.

Heavy PPC (IS):
Heat decreased to 13 (from 14.5)
Velocity increased to 1400 m/s (from 1200)

ER PPC (IS):
Heat decreased to 12 (from 13.5)
Heat penalty multiplier decreased to x4 (from x7) – Less heat penalty.

Hi Navid, great news I am looking to test your Weapons values on PST, even if I am mostly a casual player.
Just a question on PPCs cooldown values, I assume that they remain the same before the 17th March patch?

[The6thMessenger]

Navid A1, on 18 March 2021 - 07:59 PM, said:

Full List of changes: Full List

ATM3 (Clan):
Missile Health increased to 2 (from 1.6)
Heat penalty multiplier decreased to x6 (from x3.1) – More heat penalty.
Minimum heat penalty level removed (from 5) – Still Linked with other ATMs.

ATM6 (Clan):
Missile Health increased to 1.8 (from 1.4)
Heat penalty multiplier decreased to x6 (from x3.1) – More heat penalty.

ATM9 (Clan):
Missile Health increased to 1.6 (from 1.1)
Heat penalty multiplier decreased to x6 (from x3.1) – More heat penalty.
Minimum heat penalty level decreased to 3 (from 4) – Fire 2 with no penalty.

ATM12 (Clan):
Missile Health increased to 1.4 (from 1.0)
Heat penalty multiplier decreased to x6 (from x3.1) – More heat penalty.

Wait, the ATMs still deal 3 damage/missile at close range? I thought it was at 2.5?

Also not to be a stickler, but that looks you you increased the heat penalty multiplier, not reduce it..

While yeah the Heat nerf looks like It could work, but really i think much like this current PPC's nerf, it just relegates it more to poptarting.

Quote

Light Gauss Rifle (IS):
Damage increased to 10 (from 8)
Cooldown increased to 3.5 (from 2.6)
Velocity increased to 2200 m/s (from 2000)
Range increased to 880m (from 750)
Max range increased to 2200m (from 1500)
Heat penalty is removed.

I don't get this. The LGR is limited to 2 to mechanical reason, do you mean that is removed?

Because if it's not, due to how Heat Scale works, it'll use the lowest limit and highest multiplier anyways, IIRC, so it's kind of useless as there's still heat generated penalty with PPCs.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 March 2021 - 02:11 AM.

[FupDup]

I don't like how the Light Gauss and normal Gauss are right on top of each other in terms of range (880 vs. 810). There's no practical difference there, the regular GR is still out-damaging the LGR at the LGR's range.

I also don't agree with the regular PPC having a ghost heat cap of 3 because then that puts it in direct competition with the HPPC instead of making them different from it. They're now competing for the same 30-PPFLD role and one will inevitably be better than the other.

I definitely don't like the HMG sharing the same range as the regular MG. Now they have the same role, and one will be directly superior to the other instead of there being a trade-off. If you boost HMG range, regular MG needs more range too.

Most of the other stuff is good though. I'll nitpick some more later.

Edited by FupDup, 19 March 2021 - 02:05 AM.

[Gagis]

The6thMessenger, on 19 March 2021 - 01:55 AM, said:

I don't get this. The LGR is limited to 2 to mechanical reason, do you mean that is removed?

Because if it's not, due to how Heat Scale works, it'll use the lowest limit and highest multiplier anyways, IIRC, so it's kind of useless.

I'm pretty sure this would mean its free to combine with PPC, so you could run a Marauder II with 2LGauss + 2PPC without ghost heat.

Edited by Gagis, 19 March 2021 - 02:10 AM.

[Mcgral18]

I'll certainly come back to give it a try, but agility is what really killed the game for me


A 900M/s AC20 is a nice start though

[Curccu]

Mcgral18, on 19 March 2021 - 02:35 AM, said:

A 900M/s AC20 is a nice start though

Could allow shooting 2 without ghostheat also IMO.

[Adette]

Mcgral18, on 19 March 2021 - 02:35 AM, said:

I'll certainly come back to give it a try, but agility is what really killed the game for me


A 900M/s AC20 is a nice start though

Agility PTS will be addressed after the weapon balance PTS. Can't overwhelm PGI with too much info all at once.

[Antares102]

This is awesome! Will come back after two years of MWO hiatus to have a look at this on PTS!
Great work thank you!

Also thank you mechdb to have a Gulag Version for theorycrafting.

This really looks like a community driven change for the first time in MWO.

Edited by Antares102, 19 March 2021 - 03:28 AM.

[vonJerg]

are there any changes on mech mobility?

[EnochsBook]

vonJerg, on 19 March 2021 - 03:41 AM, said:

are there any changes on mech mobility?

Adette, on 19 March 2021 - 03:05 AM, said:

Agility PTS will be addressed after the weapon balance PTS. Can't overwhelm PGI with too much info all at once.

[Bud Crue]

Large pulse lasers are back.
Running Clan Large Pulse is a reasonable choice again (that drop to x3 heat is a big deal).
C-MPL fun again.
I can finally build my Quickdraw 3 Snub-PPC brawlers that I've always wanted to try (without melting).

This is going to be glorious if only for a brief time.
Maybe not so brief if we can get everybody on board to ignore the main server and play the PTS.
Spread the word.

Oh and PGI? THIS is how you renew interest in your game. Put this on the live server and that is how you introduce diversity of builds and give interesting game play options. THAT is how you would get folks interested in buying mech packs.

[kapusta11]

So how's your spreadsheet better than that of PGI?

Right off the bat:
- Clan MPL range nerfed massively? Any reason why? Are they that oppressive?
- Clan Heavy large buffed across the board. More damage, less duration. I mean I don't mind, if people want the return of gauss vomit, sure, whatever. cER meds and Gauss buffed too so I see where this is going.
- PPC ghost limit increased to 3. I prefer PGI's approach of giving them better punch per ton and be meaningfully different from other weapons as opposed to, what it looks like a design approach of this whole spreadsheet of "this weapon generates 1 more heat and that weapon deals 1 more damage and this one has 0.5 sec longer cooldown but they all do more or less the same thing and in the end it doesn't matter because GAUSS VOMIT IS BACK BIТCH".
- Rotary AC5s nerfed? Lol, I guess RAC5 meta was a thing.
- IS Medium laser heat decreased by 4.42%. Nice meme.

Unfortunately it seems the goal of helping underperforming weapons fell prey to buffing author's prefered play style and ultimately failing to address the core issue of certain weapons not having a niche to fill because it's already filled by a weapon with better stats and no amount of number juggling is going to fix that.

[Lucky Noob]

damm i will play that PTS so hard

[EnochsBook]

kapusta11, on 19 March 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

- Clan MPL range nerfed massively? Any reason why? Are they that oppressive?

Clan MPL Optimal range is decreased, in exchange for better damage, heat and duration. Max range is actually increased.

kapusta11, on 19 March 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

- Rotary AC5s nerfed? Lol, I guess RAC5 meta was a thing.

There are no proposed nerfs to the RAC5, only buffs (to put it more on par with the RAC2, presumably). Please read carefully.

kapusta11, on 19 March 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

Unfortunately it seems the goal of helping underperforming weapons fell prey to buffing author's prefered play style

This is a community-driven document. I don't know exactly how many people have taken part, but there is certainly more than one author.

kapusta11, on 19 March 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

certain weapons not having a niche to fill because it's already filled by a weapon with better stats and no amount of number juggling is going to fix that.

Of course number juggling can fix weapons with underwhelming stats. Stats are numbers, yeah?