400 replies to this topic

[Gagis]

Real shotguns?

Shotguns have fairly tight patterns and long ranges in real life compared to the absolutely comical and unrealistic way they are depicted in old videogames. Absolutely nothing real in shotguns as melee weapons with ridiculous spread.

MWO lbs are fairly accurate to how the weapons are depicted in other battletech games and media. Tho they are supposed to be firiing shrapnel shells that detonate into a spray of projectiles mid-flight but thatd be really hard to model for a videogame so the shotgun-like pattern makes a lot of sense as an alternative. The current implementation serves the intended role of being easy to hit moving targets with rather well.

[Nightbird]

No desire to reduce the slots on LBX2, 5, 20?

LBX2 having 3 slots over AC2, LBX 5 and 20 being an extra slot over the regular version. No need to make it less like the 10, but even the same number of slots would make them more popular in builds.

[Navid A1]

Nightbird, on 25 March 2021 - 11:42 AM, said:

No desire to reduce the slots on LBX2, 5, 20?

LBX2 having 3 slots over AC2, LBX 5 and 20 being an extra slot over the regular version. No need to make it less like the 10, but even the same number of slots would make them more popular in builds.

I have nothing against it... I think it would definitely be a positive change.

I don't know how many pitchforks and torches would go up in the air

[Nightbird]

Navid A1, on 25 March 2021 - 11:58 AM, said:

I have nothing against it... I think it would definitely be a positive change.

I don't know how many pitchforks and torches would go up in the air

Make Clan LBX and A/C the same slots as the Ultras to diversify the reasons for the pitchforks.

[Navid A1]

If opening that can of worm is a bit too much, then at the very least only the LBX2 needs to be 2 or 3 to be useful.

[LordNothing]

lb5 needs a spread buff and nothing more. make its usage profile similar to the 2 where it can use the 3x max range to do good damage in trades (though not as good as dedicated snipe weaponry). the others are ok. give the clan version a similar spread buff, but it only gets a 2x max range to make up for its reduced tonnage and size.

another idea is to get rid of the damage fall off and let that come from spread alone. split the difference between optimal and max range, put the new optimal range there. having 2 sources of damage attenuation that stack is a little extreme.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 March 2021 - 12:41 PM.

[JC Daxion]

Nightbird, on 18 March 2021 - 08:42 PM, said:

Nice weapon buffs, expecting to see TTK being reduced by 20% or so. 4k games should be easier in FP, looking forward to it.

TTK being reduced? That does not sound good at all. Increased 20% would of been way better. The whole reason why i play this game is the slower TTK.



BTW, range on IS ERLL 700, clan larger pulse range 1100m IS that a typo because that doesn't sound right at all. also clan MPL's longer range than a IS LL? I'm really confused here is this some lore numbers?

Edited by JC Daxion, 25 March 2021 - 02:47 PM.

[YueFei]

JC Daxion, on 25 March 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

TTK being reduced? That does not sound good at all. Increased 20% would of been way better. The whole reason why i play this game is the slower TTK.

Only in this initial pass, which only changes the weapons.

Later on when mechs get baseline agility buffs and re-scaled smaller, TTK should actually be higher for the majority of mechs (not just the ones that are already agile and/or have favorable hitboxes).

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 25 March 2021 - 11:42 AM, said:

No desire to reduce the slots on LBX2, 5, 20?

LBX2 having 3 slots over AC2, LBX 5 and 20 being an extra slot over the regular version. No need to make it less like the 10, but even the same number of slots would make them more popular in builds.

I think LB20X should need a -1 slot, but they said they have debated it and didn't want to do it, at least that's what ASH said. I guess good bye KGC-005.

As for the other LBs, the LB5s and LB2s,I think they will ALWAYS be inferior AC5 and AC2s respectively. They are already small damage being spread around. I mean look at how they are trying to balance it, less spread, basically trying to be AC5s and AC2s but failing at it at longer distances.

Ever tried frontloading damage? Like have LB2s Do 3.5 damage every 0.93s, the LB5X do 7 damage every 2.02s. This will make them mechanically relevant.

[JC Daxion]

I just wanna add one more thing.

First, i hate the idea of increasing/decreasing damage of weapons. IMO that should be solely done through heat/recharge if for nothing else just consistancy. It's much easier to think in standard terms, Not if this weapon has added .5 extra damage so now my boat is +4.


another thing, it looks a lot like this is just gearing towards boats again, with just about everything being a buff, and lrms and streaks which are situational at best are also being nerfed? That is another aspect i am just missing i guess.



But hey, if all this leads to is a shake up then ok, But i'm having a hard time seeing the light behind this whole concept. If anyone wants to expand on this reasoning feel free. I'll always reserve judgement, but I'm skeptical.

[dario03]

JC Daxion, on 25 March 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

TTK being reduced? That does not sound good at all. Increased 20% would of been way better. The whole reason why i play this game is the slower TTK.



BTW, range on IS ERLL 700, clan larger pulse range 1100m IS that a typo because that doesn't sound right at all. also clan MPL's longer range than a IS LL? I'm really confused here is this some lore numbers?

Other later changes will make spreading damage easier.

Are you comparing some at optimal and some at max range?

JC Daxion, on 25 March 2021 - 03:28 PM, said:

another thing, it looks a lot like this is just gearing towards boats again, with just about everything being a buff, and lrms and streaks which are situational at best are also being nerfed? That is another aspect i am just missing i guess.

All weapons including LRMs could see more changes. Streaks haven't been nerfed, Its more of a rebalance. They have less alpha but better dps.

[DAEDALOS513]

JC Daxion, on 25 March 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

TTK being reduced? That does not sound good at all. Increased 20% would of been way better. The whole reason why i play this game is the slower TTK.

BTW, range on IS ERLL 700, clan larger pulse range 1100m IS that a typo because that doesn't sound right at all. also clan MPL's longer range than a IS LL? I'm really confused here is this some lore numbers?

Players are too scared to let go of their crutches and nerf op weapon/mechs.. TTK will only go down with all these weapon buffs.. sorry for your luck..

dario03, on 25 March 2021 - 04:18 PM, said:

Other later changes will make spreading damage easier.

Are you comparing some at optimal and some at max range?


All weapons including LRMs could see more changes. Streaks haven't been nerfed, Its more of a rebalance. They have less alpha but better dps.

When you need more face time with a close range weapon to achieve the same damage as before.. it's a NERF because now it's more high risk..

[Gas Guzzler]

DAEDALOS513, on 25 March 2021 - 04:35 PM, said:

Players are too scared to let go of their crutches and nerf op weapon/mechs.. TTK will only go down with all these weapon buffs.. sorry for your luck..

This doesn't even make sense.

If underperforming weapons are buffed to compete with strong weapons, its a relative nerf to "crutches and op weapons/mechs".

[DAEDALOS513]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 March 2021 - 04:59 PM, said:

This doesn't even make sense.

If under performing weapons are buffed to compete with strong weapons, its a relative nerf to "crutches and op weapons/mechs".

I was speaking relative to TTK as the person i was replying to was referring. TTK could have gone up if the well meaning folks at the cauldron brought down to reasonable levels the weapons we all know are too strong. Instead they went the other route because they are too afraid to weaken the crutches they are so used to..

Even now, weeks after the broken patch I still see many supposed 'good' players boating clan er peeps like it was some kind of new drug... it's disgusting.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 25 March 2021 - 05:23 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAEDALOS513, on 25 March 2021 - 05:19 PM, said:

I was speaking relative to TTK as the person i was replying to was referring. TTK could have gone up if the well meaning folks at the cauldron brought down to reasonable levels the weapons we all know are too strong. Instead they went the other route because they are too afraid to weaken the crutches they are so used to..

Even now, weeks after the broken patch I still see many supposed 'good' players boating clan er peeps like it was some kind of new drug... it's disgusting.

Okay, but TTK is one discussion.

Using a "crutch" is another. If underperforming weapons are brought up to be competitive, the currently strong weapons are no longer a crutch.

[DAEDALOS513]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 March 2021 - 05:26 PM, said:

Okay, but TTK is one discussion.

Using a "crutch" is another. If underperforming weapons are brought up to be competitive, the currently strong weapons are no longer a crutch.

ATM they still are.. and they don't want to give it up. Sorry for all the drug references but this is how I see 'compers' with their meta... addicted. It's like telling a druggie: give up your heroin now (nerfing clan peeps or ac2's) and tomorrow you will have more drug variety to choose from (more weapon balance).. they would never do it because of the addiction. They are too afraid too.. "Oh no.. What if the new weapons aren't as good (ie. the high not as good)?" They're holding onto that crutch come hell or high water. Sure making all weapons stronger may in the end result in better balance but at the cost of TTK and player enjoyment...

Why do that when you can achieve the same thing by bringing the few op weapons down? Because of the addictionnnnnnnnnn

PS. I think all my matches tonight except one where the enemy felt they had to snipe at 1000m with erpeeps ended in under 5 minutes..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 25 March 2021 - 05:38 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

DAEDALOS513, on 25 March 2021 - 05:34 PM, said:

ATM they still are.. and they don't want to give it up.

I agree with this somewhat, but Navid said they'd be changing it on the 2nd pass.

Though I'm still baffled with their idea of nerfing it, just spread? The ATMs are doing so much damage that they don't really need to be that accurate, that's the point. Hell, the game already aims for you, that's why the poptarting Veagles are damn powerful.

They would rather keep the ridiculously close and small sweet-spot for the maximum payoff, and that to me is off putting.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 March 2021 - 05:58 PM.

[MyriadDigits]

DAEDALOS513, on 25 March 2021 - 05:34 PM, said:

ATM they still are.. and they don't want to give it up. Sorry for all the drug references but this is how I see 'compers' with their meta... addicted. It's like telling a druggie: give up your heroin now (nerfing clan peeps or ac2's) and tomorrow you will have more drug variety to choose from (more weapon balance).. they would never do it because of the addiction. They are too afraid too.. "Oh no.. What if the new weapons aren't as good (ie. the high not as good)?" They're holding onto that crutch come hell or high water. Sure making all weapons stronger may in the end result in better balance but at the cost of TTK and player enjoyment...

Why do that when you can achieve the same thing by bringing the few op weapons down? Because of the addictionnnnnnnnnn

That is hilariously far from the truth. They're buffing LGR because they want to play with LGR. They're buffing SNPPC and LPPC because they want to play with those. They're buffing cACs and IS AC20 because they want to play with those. They're buffing MRM10s because they want to play with them. They're buffing lasers because they want to play with them. They want to use the things that are currently underpowered because it could be some wide grin giddy fun, with the caveat that these weapons are actually capable of driving wins. After all, working your *** off for 5 minutes to just get your *** handed to you and find out you didn't do anything isn't fun for anybody.

They are specifically not buffing UAC5/10, IS MPL, LB10, and cERPPC because they are bored out of their friggin minds using those weapons. Specifically not touching these so-called "crutches" because they want everything else to stand equal to, or even surpass (in the correct situations) these "crutches" so they can use literally anything else other than these "crutches".

But why aren't they willing to nerf them? Since I know you're already typing this response I'll answer it: because they don't want to take away the fun from the casuals using these weapons. Because the "elite compers holding on to their crutches" aren't the only ones using these weapons, and the Cauldron is actually aware of this fact. Nerfing things will take away fun that people have playing certain mechs and weapons, and taking away that fun will drive players away. However, buffing the underperforming mechs and weapons will be wildly enjoyed by the stubborn pilots running their lore builds they run despite poor performance because of tabletop nostalgia. It'll receive great acceptance from players running fun weapons and builds because they like the look and sound, because now its not a case of "its fun every 1 in 10 matches" its a case of "its fun and I don't need to switch to switch to anything else to escape a losing streak".

[dario03]

DAEDALOS513, on 25 March 2021 - 04:35 PM, said:

When you need more face time with a close range weapon to achieve the same damage as before.. it's a NERF because now it's more high risk..

Yes, which is why this change is a buff in some ways and a nerf in others. Alpha is lower but the higher dps means you need less facetime in a long fight because you will deal damage and destroy targets faster. There are other ideas for streaks as well, but some require more than xml changes.

[YueFei]

MyriadDigits, on 25 March 2021 - 07:25 PM, said:

But why aren't they willing to nerf them? Since I know you're already typing this response I'll answer it: because they don't want to take away the fun from the casuals using these weapons. Because the "elite compers holding on to their crutches" aren't the only ones using these weapons, and the Cauldron is actually aware of this fact. Nerfing things will take away fun that people have playing certain mechs and weapons, and taking away that fun will drive players away. However, buffing the underperforming mechs and weapons will be wildly enjoyed by the stubborn pilots running their lore builds they run despite poor performance because of tabletop nostalgia. It'll receive great acceptance from players running fun weapons and builds because they like the look and sound, because now its not a case of "its fun every 1 in 10 matches" its a case of "its fun and I don't need to switch to switch to anything else to escape a losing streak".

QFT.

Like I said, my buddy that I got into MWO to play on a casual basis? He quit and never came back after PGI nerfed AC20 velocity and made SRMs 1.5 damage/missile.

Not a potato either, he played competitive CS:GO.