400 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

But SRMs are 2.15 damage per missile?

[YueFei]

Y E O N N E, on 25 March 2021 - 10:38 PM, said:

But SRMs are 2.15 damage per missile?

At one point in the past, PGI made them 1.5 damage/missile. I can't immediately find the patch where it was changed to 1.5, but I found the patch notes when they changed it back from 1.5 to 2.0:
https://mwomercs.com...23-16-jul-2013/


Anyways, casual players don't read patch notes. My buddy just logged in and is like WTF why is my AC20 projectile so slow and why it seems like my SRMs do jack all? Not being a big Mechwarrior fan, he just stopped playing, and didn't bother keeping up with the changes so even when SRMs went back up to 2+ damage/missile, he never came back.

[Scout Derek]

YueFei, on 25 March 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

At one point in the past, PGI made them 1.5 damage/missile. I can't immediately find the patch where it was changed to 1.5, but I found the patch notes when they changed it back from 1.5 to 2.0:
https://mwomercs.com...23-16-jul-2013/


Anyways, casual players don't read patch notes. My buddy just logged in and is like WTF why is my AC20 projectile so slow and why it seems like my SRMs do jack all? Not being a big Mechwarrior fan, he just stopped playing, and didn't bother keeping up with the changes so even when SRMs went back up to 2+ damage/missile, he never came back.

That just becomes a informative issue on pgis part then. They can have a popup window with website links but they can't provide a popup that explains what has changed?

[Vagosei]

This list only caters to the comp players. Will make matches last less than 5 minutes.

[Gas Guzzler]

Vagosei, on 26 March 2021 - 07:25 PM, said:

This list only caters to the comp players. Will make matches last less than 5 minutes.

False. Might actually see more poking gameplay and less nascar resulting in longer matches.

[Nightbird]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 March 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

False. Might actually see more poking gameplay and less nascar resulting in longer matches.

I think that was PGI's intent with the PPC buffs and it was successful to a small degree. Laser vomit buffs actually favor nascar game play.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightbird, on 26 March 2021 - 08:15 PM, said:

I think that was PGI's intent with the PPC buffs and it was successful to a small degree. Laser vomit buffs actually favor nascar game play.

Wait what? No they don't. Laser vomit likes to poke, especially Clan side.

[Nightbird]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 March 2021 - 08:37 PM, said:

Wait what? No they don't. Laser vomit likes to poke, especially Clan side.

Laser vomit doesn't have good synergy with nascaring lights and mediums, so they tend to lead nascars. I remember this being the case 3 years ago when lasers were stronger than dakka.

They are poking in a sense... at the front of the nascar.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightbird, on 26 March 2021 - 08:49 PM, said:

Laser vomit doesn't have good synergy with nascaring lights and mediums, so they tend to lead nascars. I remember this being the case 3 years ago when lasers were stronger than dakka.

They are poking in a sense... at the front of the nascar.

Eh, laser vomit mobile heavies are good at map control which counters nascar so I'm not sure. Probably map dependent.

[DAEDALOS513]

MyriadDigits, on 25 March 2021 - 07:25 PM, said:

That is hilariously far from the truth. They're buffing LGR because they want to play with LGR. They're buffing SNPPC and LPPC because they want to play with those. They're buffing cACs and IS AC20 because they want to play with those. They're buffing MRM10s because they want to play with them. They're buffing lasers because they want to play with them. They want to use the things that are currently underpowered because it could be some wide grin giddy fun, with the caveat that these weapons are actually capable of driving wins. After all, working your *** off for 5 minutes to just get your *** handed to you and find out you didn't do anything isn't fun for anybody.

They are specifically not buffing UAC5/10, IS MPL, LB10, and cERPPC because they are bored out of their friggin minds using those weapons. Specifically not touching these so-called "crutches" because they want everything else to stand equal to, or even surpass (in the correct situations) these "crutches" so they can use literally anything else other than these "crutches".

But why aren't they willing to nerf them? Since I know you're already typing this response I'll answer it: because they don't want to take away the fun from the casuals using these weapons. Because the "elite compers holding on to their crutches" aren't the only ones using these weapons, and the Cauldron is actually aware of this fact. Nerfing things will take away fun that people have playing certain mechs and weapons, and taking away that fun will drive players away. However, buffing the underperforming mechs and weapons will be wildly enjoyed by the stubborn pilots running their lore builds they run despite poor performance because of tabletop nostalgia. It'll receive great acceptance from players running fun weapons and builds because they like the look and sound, because now its not a case of "its fun every 1 in 10 matches" its a case of "its fun and I don't need to switch to switch to anything else to escape a losing streak".

Who said ac20's needed buffing? Who said snppc needed buffing? who said most of that stuff you mention need buffing? The only reason you want them buffed is because you're comparing them to the few op weapon systems..

Fun is a relative term.. They aren't buffing uac5/10's bec they are already too effective relative to other weapons.. key words being too effective. Currently the op weapons are 'fun' because they outperform most others using less effort.. (ie. crutches). But if you bring those weapons down.. you don't nerf fun.. you multiply and spread it around.. being able to use more weapons = fun. That's what you want.. you said so yourself.. they're just going about it back asswards and those that don't see it are afraid to give up your crutches.

TTK and player enjoyment will suffer..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 27 March 2021 - 09:53 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

dario03, on 25 March 2021 - 08:05 PM, said:

Yes, which is why this change is a buff in some ways and a nerf in others. Alpha is lower but the higher dps means you need less facetime in a long fight because you will deal damage and destroy targets faster. There are other ideas for streaks as well, but some require more than xml changes.

We're talking about streaks here.. if you're in brawl range firing off a spready weapon system which will now take longer to do same damage .. it's a nerf dude.

Usually lights or med's run streaks.. I don't want to engage too long in a light or medium.. I'd rather get off a few high alpha streak strikes and regroup then stick around any longer.. or pop tart...

I dunno.. streaks seemed fine the way they were.. Clans had longer range, higher alpha but lower dps.. IS had higher dps but shorter range..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 27 March 2021 - 10:03 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 March 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

False. Might actually see more poking gameplay and less nascar resulting in longer matches.

If you truly want that you would demand a clan ppc and is/clan ac2/uac2nerf

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 27 March 2021 - 10:09 AM.

[dario03]

DAEDALOS513, on 27 March 2021 - 09:56 AM, said:

We're talking about streaks here.. if you're in brawl range firing off a spready weapon system which will now take longer to do same damage .. it's a nerf dude.

Usually lights or med's run streaks.. I don't want to engage too long in a light or medium.. I'd rather get off a few high alpha streak strikes and regroup then stick around any longer.. or pop tart...

I dunno.. streaks seemed fine the way they were.. Clans had longer range, higher alpha but lower dps.. IS had higher dps but shorter range..

The way they are in the first pts means you can fire your second shot faster so if you really only want a few shots this is still better in some cases since you can get a few shots out faster. In this system firing ssrm6 twice does more damage than the old ones firing once, new one also does more damage firing three times compared to old ones twice. So if you engage for ~4 seconds this one is better, if its ~6s the old one is, if its ~8s the new one is, at ~12s they are equal, ~16s the new one is. And eventually it gets to the point where the new one is always higher. Though that takes a while so its benefit of faster cooldown giving you more firing opportunities will probably come up more often in actual use.

Edited by dario03, 27 March 2021 - 10:42 AM.

[CFC Conky]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 March 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

False. Might actually see more poking gameplay and less nascar resulting in longer matches.

Could be, but will it make things better or worse for newer players (poking gameplay)?

I remember the frustration a couple if years ago over Clan laser vomit quickly coring mechs from range. If I recall correctly it was more of an issue in FP but it was also a thing in QP.

It will be interesting to see how the PTS influences the skill disparity found in the current matchmaking system.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 27 March 2021 - 10:55 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

dario03, on 27 March 2021 - 10:34 AM, said:

The way they are in the first pts means you can fire your second shot faster so if you really only want a few shots this is still better in some cases since you can get a few shots out faster. In this system firing ssrm6 twice does more damage than the old ones firing once, new one also does more damage firing three times compared to old ones twice. So if you engage for ~4 seconds this one is better, if its ~6s the old one is, if its ~8s the new one is, at ~12s they are equal, ~16s the new one is. And eventually it gets to the point where the new one is always higher. Though that takes a while so its benefit of faster cooldown giving you more firing opportunities will probably come up more often in actual use.

Thanks for the analysis.. if that's the case then it's should be alright.. I guess it only really hurts (nerfs) the one-hit poptarters getting off a smaller alpha. Thx for clarifying.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 27 March 2021 - 11:25 AM.

[R Valentine]

Nightbird, on 26 March 2021 - 08:15 PM, said:

I think that was PGI's intent with the PPC buffs and it was successful to a small degree. Laser vomit buffs actually favor nascar game play.

Only for short burn, low heat, high DPS lasers. Laser builds that require time to cool down, like any form of medium/large laser vomit, suffer greatly during nascar. You heat cap almost immediately and get gobbled up by mediums and lights. High alpha poke keeps brawlers honest. Instead of just NSRing, eating the first two volleys, and then winning outright once heat cap sets in, brawlers have to approach more cautiously to keep all their bits in tact. Ideally, we'd like for a happy medium somewhere between, "If I just run straight at 'im I'll win on DPS" and "If I just shoot him once from afar he dies instantly." The PPC changes altered that somewhat, but only for PPCs and only one PPC in particular. I'd rather see a mix of poking loadouts and players jockeying heavily for positions in order to exploit the weaknesses of their enemies poke builds. Not just, "fit more cERPPC, win".

[Runecarver]

The streak damage change is just going to end up more or less moot considering full 100% radar deprivation light mechs will just deny any chance for a streak mech to obtain a lock.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i'm gonna hold off any real opinions till i give the changes a try on the PTS (glad they are doing that, far better than just shoving nerfs/buffs down our throats with no feedback from the community). though i don't like the LRM nerf, they spread enough already as is. i think they are in good place currently, not overpowering but not useless.

would like to know when the PTS will be up though. we wil have to see how all the changes balance out against each other. i understand that its difficult to make sure no one weapon overpowers all other in comparison to their intended role. mind you some are ones i never or very rarely use just because its not my play style (i prefer the mid to long range fight over the brawl honestly, takes more tactical thinking in my opinion.)

[Navid A1]

F* it.... we'll do it live!

https://mwomercs.com...pril-dev-vlog-1

[The6thMessenger]

Navid A1, on 01 April 2021 - 10:22 PM, said:

F* it.... we'll do it live!

https://mwomercs.com...pril-dev-vlog-1

Shame about the UAC Rework though. Might not happen.