704 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

justcallme A S H, on 12 May 2021 - 08:18 PM, said:

I didn't have to dig. Took me about 3mins to find them.

It is very, very shortsighted to think 100 games per day in 11 days as an average is not significant. Lets expand your mind shall we? The average match time is what 6m 30s. Lets reduce that to 4m for the sake of higher tier games and that is roughly what I am seeing.

4mins x 100 games = 400min (6.5hrs) of pure game time.

Now lets factor in:

Average load in/out time - 2mins each game. (200min total)
Search time - 2mins each game. (200min total)
Mechlab/skills some games you might/might not - 30s each game. (30min total)


Grand Total - 830mins / 13.8hrs.

If you honestly think that playing 14hrs of MWO in 11 days average across Cauldron members is not impressive - you're being extremely unreasonable, I'd say it's deliberate so at this point. You also then need to consider:

• The time most of us are spending in the background having meetings with PGI. Discussing values, changes and forumulating proposals. (3-5hrs a week. Map meetings alone go for 90mins usually, once a week).
  
• Participating in forums, facebook, forum posts etc etc.
  
• Then having to stop the spread of misinformation from individuals like you.

Then factor in people have work, families/kids and life to live. So in 11 days many of us have spent easily 20-25hrs++. What more do you actually want?




From where I sit these numbers the Cauldron and community should be extremely proud of. If a very, very select few in the community still don't think it's enough good luck to them.

Slow down.. I said on an individual basis those numbers aren't impressive.. it's not like you can magically transfer experience from the guys that play more 10 matches a day to the others.. on an individual basis half those numbers are meaningless. If I only played less than 10 matches a day too I'd want everything buffed to high heaven as well..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 13 May 2021 - 06:50 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Ah of course you try and pick at something obscure and call it 'meaningless' after you doubled down and now have egg on your face.

The Cauldron isn't an individual. It's greater than an individual as it is a collective of ideas put forward as a single voice.
You absolutely can transfer experience and knowledge across players. That is the basic essence of learning and conversation.


If you think because one guy has more time to play than another that the collective effort isn't impressive and it is 'meaningless' you've just reaffirmed you cannot be taken seriously.

[DAEDALOS513]

justcallme A S H, on 13 May 2021 - 02:58 PM, said:

Ah of course you try and pick at something obscure and call it 'meaningless' after you doubled down and now have egg on your face.

The Cauldron isn't an individual. It's greater than an individual as it is a collective of ideas put forward as a single voice.
You absolutely can transfer experience and knowledge across players. That is the basic essence of learning and conversation.

If you think because one guy has more time to play than another that the collective effort isn't impressive and it is 'meaningless' you've just reaffirmed you cannot be taken seriously.

No we're talking about experience.. you can't transfer experience from those that play 20+ matches a day to those that play 5.. basically you're saying those 3 or 4 with any meaningful game experience are guiding (ie. telling) everyone else how to think.. got it. I'm sure you can find plenty of tier 2's and 3's that play a hell of a lot more than many of you.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 13 May 2021 - 03:32 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

You know.. the more we talk the more we move away from the point of all this discussion. All the unnecessary weapon buffs. This is getting really old. No matter what, you will never change my opinion i hold and that is too many weapons were buffed and weapons that should have been nerfed weren't because ya'll have been scarred by pgi's past of nerfing your toys.. and also you enjoy you're crutches (ie. easy damage).

I'll talk to you guys again when the next patch hits..peace

[justcallme A S H]

DAEDALOS513, on 13 May 2021 - 03:30 PM, said:

No we're talking about experience.. you can't transfer experience from those that play 20+ matches a day to those that play 5.. basically you're saying those 3 or 4 with any meaningful game experience are guiding (ie. telling) everyone else how to think.. got it. I'm sure you can find plenty of tier 2's and 3's that play a hell of a lot more than many of you.

I am not saying that at all. Do not misconstrue my words to suit your agenda. I clearly said collective. We take into account feedback from the dozen or so mediums that exist/feedback is given. We combine that will all of ours and come together/discuss.

If you don't think 60-70 games in 11 days (only QP, not FP/Lobbies etc) + all the worlds feedback is not enough to get a pretty solid idea then you are once again being very, very unrealistic.

DAEDALOS513, on 13 May 2021 - 03:41 PM, said:

You know.. the more we talk the more we move away from the point of all this discussion. All the unnecessary weapon buffs. This is getting really old.

Lets not forget the facts here. The weapon balance pass which has thus far received over 90% overall positive feedback from 100s of inputs.

DAEDALOS513, on 13 May 2021 - 03:41 PM, said:

No matter what, you will never change my opinion i hold and that is too many weapons were buffed and weapons that should have been nerfed weren't because ya'll have been scarred by pgi's past of nerfing your toys.. and also you enjoy you're crutches (ie. easy damage).

I'll talk to you guys again when the next patch hits..peace

Well we all know your opinion won't change no matter the facts against it.

I mean I've provided 2 incredibly detailed breakdowns. You don't acknowledge any of it and proceed to try to pick at a tiny little edge in an attempt to try and suggest the input is 'meaningless' - I don't think anyone is buying it.

[C337Skymaster]

I just wanted to reiterate: LRMs are at a severe disadvantage, even in skilled hands.

In this particular case, I was running a KFX-D in its stock configuration, which includes 35 LRM tubes, a NARC beacon, 5 tons of LRM ammo, and one ton of NARC ammo.

The limitations here are:
-Time required to land damage on target (In a poking match, LRMs will always lose)
-Quantity of AMS on the field
-Quantity of cover on the field
-Quantity of ECM on the field (my NARCs were almost always overlapped)

So to anyone who thinks LRMs are on par with cERPPCs or IS MPLs, before or after the patch, I just want to know what you're smoking, cuz it's gotta be some strong stuff.

PS: does anybody know how to embed pictures? Clicking and dragging doesn't work. Trying to use the little image tool doesn't work. Someone seems to have figured it out, but it never works for me, and I'm aware of a lot of other folks who'd like to know the trick without having to upload their pictures to photobucket, first, and posting a link.

Match ID: 98708559407992, in case it matters or helps anybody.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 14 May 2021 - 09:34 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Large Pulse Laser (Clan):
Damage increased to 13 (from 12)
Heat decreased to 9.0 (from 10)
Laser duration decreased to 1.0 (from 1.09)
Range decreased to 550m (from 600)
Max range increased to 1100m (from 840)
Heat penalty multiplier decreased to x3 (from x4) – Less heat penalty.

Notes: Currently, C-LPLs try to compete with C-ERPPCs and fall considerably short. A slight damage buff, heat buff, and less penalizing ghost heat will ensure the weapon is unique to the C-ERPPC. A slight optimal range nerf acts as a trade-off to having its full 2x damage falloff at maximum range restored.

Clan large pulses are currently broken.. congrats, you found your new crutch. This is another case of boosting a weapon that didn't need it.. and you justify it because you are comparing it to a BROKEN weapon.. saying CLPL don't compare as well as clan erppc is ridiculous. These are two different weapon systems.. one requires aiming they other is hit-scan. Peeps are more snipey (even though you can brawl with peeps)..

Like it or not, the solution to most of your issues with these 'weaker' weapons is to nerf clan ppc.. it would make everything else relatively better. I'd hate to be a new player trying to grind this game right now.. rip new player retention..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 14 May 2021 - 10:49 AM.

[Leone]

Did you miss the part where they decided nerfs were a bad balancing decision and instead chose to buff all the other weapons? It was a decision made before any of the numbers changed. Here, let me sum it up for you.

Rather than downgrade weapons folk were currently using, which might make the game less fun for them, they choose to instead buff weapons that folk weren't using as much, in hopes it would make things more fun for them.

Seems't've worked.

~Leone.

[DAEDALOS513]

Leone, on 14 May 2021 - 11:19 AM, said:

Did you miss the part where they decided nerfs were a bad balancing decision and instead chose to buff all the other weapons? It was a decision made before any of the numbers changed. Here, let me sum it up for you.

Rather than downgrade weapons folk were currently using, which might make the game less fun for them, they choose to instead buff weapons that folk weren't using as much, in hopes it would make things more fun for them.

Seems't've worked.

~Leone.

I didn't miss any part of the ridiculous reasons. This has been a new -player nerf.. This game is suffering because of lack of playerbase and what do we do? Nerf most of the weapons so we can melt new players faster.. until player base rises and we can split the queues.. buffing needs to be kept to a minimum. Other than a few targeted buffs.. WE SHOULD HAVE NERFED THE OUTLIER WEAPONS THUS RAISING THE RELATIVE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE WEAKER ONES.

Business 101

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 14 May 2021 - 01:02 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAEDALOS513, on 14 May 2021 - 01:01 PM, said:

I didn't miss any part of the ridiculous reasons. This has been a new -player nerf.. This game is suffering because of lack of playerbase and what do we do? Nerf most of the weapons so we can melt new players faster.. until player base rises and we can split the queues.. buffing needs to be kept to a minimum. Other than a few targeted buffs.. WE SHOULD HAVE NERFED THE OUTLIER WEAPONS THUS RAISING THE RELATIVE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE WEAKER ONES.

Business 101

Business 101 is repeating things that resulted in a lower player base? How do you figure?

Aside from empty claims, what makes C-LPL broken? I've hardly noticed them used excessively in such a way that is hard to deal with.

[pbiggz]

DAEDALOS513, on 14 May 2021 - 01:01 PM, said:

I didn't miss any part of the ridiculous reasons. This has been a new -player nerf.. This game is suffering because of lack of playerbase and what do we do? Nerf most of the weapons so we can melt new players faster.. until player base rises and we can split the queues.. buffing needs to be kept to a minimum. Other than a few targeted buffs.. WE SHOULD HAVE NERFED THE OUTLIER WEAPONS THUS RAISING THE RELATIVE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE WEAKER ONES.

Business 101

Nerfs have been the name of the game for almost a decade and it almost killed this game. In what world do you think they make sense now?

[justcallme A S H]

DAEDALOS513, on 14 May 2021 - 01:01 PM, said:

This game is suffering because of lack of playerbase and what do we do?

The player base has been increasing month on month recently and the Weapon patch has already seen a very nice increase in population.

The pass has received overall 90%+ positive feedback across many mediums.

What you are saying once again just pure misinformation. People cannot take you seriously if you just constantly keep doing this. Please stop.

Gas Guzzler, on 14 May 2021 - 01:18 PM, said:

Business 101 is repeating things that resulted in a lower player base? How do you figure?

Aside from empty claims, what makes C-LPL broken? I've hardly noticed them used excessively in such a way that is hard to deal with.

Lol yeah imagine claiming Business 101 is to keep making the bad decisions thinking it'll come good eventually.

cLPL probably killed him. That's why they are broken.

[DAEDALOS513]

pbiggz, on 14 May 2021 - 03:02 PM, said:

Nerfs have been the name of the game for almost a decade and it almost killed this game. In what world do you think they make sense now?

As I stated more times than i care to remember..the way PGi horribly implemented nerfs in the past has left you guys mentally scarred and now you just hear the word nerf and you recoil in terror. To drive sales pgi released mech paks that either were game breaking due to the mech's inherent quirks or because the mech made certain weapons OP due to overboating the same weapon or being able to equip certain strong weapons alongside other strong weapons. These paks changed the meta so hard that their subsequent and inevitable nerf were not only expected but players actually begged for them to be made.

What left a bitter taste in peoples mouths is that they paid alot of money for these paks and felt betrayed when whatever made that mech special was nerfed... and some of the times the weapon nerfs weren't justified because only that new mech made that weapon OP and so other mechs suffered for no reason.. so ya, many times nerfs did make the game less fun..

Where we are now is completely different.. in the past these nerfs weren't done for game balancing but for bringing these mech paks back from game-breaking status.. but now the nerfs can be done specifically for balancing purposes.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 14 May 2021 - 04:38 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 May 2021 - 01:18 PM, said:

Business 101 is repeating things that resulted in a lower player base? How do you figure?

Aside from empty claims, what makes C-LPL broken? I've hardly noticed them used excessively in such a way that is hard to deal with.

So all nerfs are bad.. got it.. can your mind be any more rigid?

Try 3LP on the veagle.. broken
..or on the HBR
..or on the Ebon

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 21 May 2021 - 06:31 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Your candy store patch has killed the light chassis.. they are rarely in matches anymore cuz they are scared 5h1t7355.. hope you're proud.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 17 May 2021 - 07:52 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Alright, patch review, personal impressions (no supporting evidence presented, although I have screenshots of most of my match scores): TTK is down, and stomps are up. Whether true or not, it *feels* that way.

I play stock builds (or at least stock weapons). Pre-patch, I could usually perform decently. Post patch, I feel like I'm being forced to run boats more than pre-patch, because only a boat can put out the one-shot-kill level of damage necessary to compete in the current game. If you're trying to brawl in a DPS, multi-weapon fashion, you will be eviscerated before you can exceed 200 dmg. Opponent's first shot: right torso gone. Opponent's 2nd shot: left torso gone (which is death in a clan 'mech). Your only counter is to beat him at his own game (I'm seeing a lot of Warhammers with 2 ERPPC and 2 Light Gauss, putting out pinpoint damage at extreme range and dropping heavier targets in two or three shots before they have any chance to respond).

The one piece of evidence I'll present now, is that my tier rating was on a steady rise, even while leveling a couple 'mechs, pre-patch. I have dropped nearly a half-tier, post-patch (from top of Tier 3 to the middle of the same tier). My play-style and skill hasn't changed, but the firepower on the modern battlefield most certainly seems to have.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Can not agree that lights got gimped that hard with the new patch. Gonna agree, that ye gotta play more careful then before. But that is the way lights should be played and it is still pretty possible/common to wreck faces with cookie cutter light builds. As far as I know, appropriate buffs to light mechs are considered at the moment, but all in all I can not agree with your experience that this patch killed lights.

In my experience the reasons for matches being kinda stompy now and then is mainly about all the different mechs/loadouts that are driven atm AND for a lot of players coming back. Have some games kinda regulary where I don't recognize 2/3 of the players in my and the opfor's team.

All in all: please don't jump to conclusions and wait a week or two until the dust has settled. PGI and the Cauldron are monitoring the effects kinda closely and will certainly adress potential issues if match quality detoriates in significant proportions.

@PGI: when can we expect the May DevLog to be happening?

[DAEDALOS513]

[Gas Guzzler]

Wow two random people stating their opinions.

What irrefutable evidence.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAEDALOS513, on 15 May 2021 - 05:22 PM, said:

So all nerfs are bad.. got it.. can your mind be any more rigid?

Try 3LP on the veagle.. broken
..or on the HBR
..or on the Ebon

Sorry what makes them broken? Veagles with LPLs seem a heck of a lot easier to deal with than the 3 ER PPC version.

HBR and Ebon have always been good so not sure what you are talking about.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 23 May 2021 - 01:13 PM.