704 replies to this topic

[Krasnopesky]

Reno Blade, on 02 April 2021 - 10:58 AM, said:

Overall great patch notes, but some caveats, as others already mentioned.

The battlefield might be leveled a bit more evenly, but overall TTK will definitely go DOWN (everyone will kill/die faster)!
No twisting with better agility can compensate for increased Ghost Heat groups and lower-heat/higher-dps boating.

There should still be some increase in global cooldown overall and increase in structure overall, to increase importance of all game aspects other than aiming.
This is where the march patch had SOME interesting aspects, the high-dmg&high-heat PPC/Gauss tried to give single weapons more punch while limiting boating (because of heat) a bit.
It was just not working out good enough, because GhostHeat is 0.5s only and you can even improve boating (e.g. 6 PPCs shot in pairs)...

I am looking forward to the patch and the changed gameplay, but i think we will need more survival buffs to keep TTK in a decent state.

The current March patch significantly buffed Clan ERPPC, one of the strongest weapons in the game. That alone reduced TTK quite a bit. The changes we have implemented have not touched the current top performing weapons: cERPPC, IS MPL, UAC5&10, LBX10.

Future changes that will increase TTK: Mech rescale, mobility pass, quirk pass (reducing some of the offensive quirks and increasing some mechs defensive quirks alongside adding in more flavour quirks to make fun and interesting options on rarely used variants), and most of all a skill tree pass. The skill tree pass in particular could be used to greatly simplify the skill tree (an update that made huge numbers of players leave the game) and also change the percentage boosts mechs receive from the skill tree in order to increase TTK if needed after the other changes.

[CFC Conky]

Krasnopesky, on 02 April 2021 - 10:48 AM, said:

These changes aren't designed specifically to help with the new player experience (NPE). They are designed to make more weapons viable and fun to use for everyone.

NPE improvements are sorely needed, but PGI need to implement those sort of changes. Things like an expanded tutorial, increased rewards, refined skill tree, general UI improvements etc etc are all needed but outside the scope that we at the Cauldron can deliver.

Fair enough.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Slothasaurus]

Looks like some nice interesting changes coming.

Bit worried about the drop in TTK as the TTK is already fairly quick. I know there is more coming which should bring the TTK back up. Guess at this point just have to remain patient and see how things progress as more changes are implemented.

Edited by Slothasaurus, 02 April 2021 - 12:46 PM.

[Gakuseinozen]

Thank you for listening to your players. I hope that this continues and it brings back old players and attracts new ones.

[Joker255]

I hope Quality does not rubber stamp this patch and we get "Chris"ed again. Thank you Cauldron for your time and effort.

[Senator Blutarsky]

Krasnopesky, on 02 April 2021 - 11:31 AM, said:

The changes we have implemented have not touched the current top performing weapons: cERPPC, IS MPL, UAC5&10, LBX10.

This
What isn't getting touched ought to be mentioned front and center. (AC2s added to Kras' list... and LRMs).
At first glance I thought to myself: Senator, TTK is going to fall off a cliff. But then I realized that the most meta stuff is staying the same. Can't tell if the slight SRM, MRM buffs will amount to much (apart from the AMS nerf). I might have kept them in the strong enough as is group. With respect to new player experience and lower tier gameplay this weapons pass might level the playing field somewhat for players that haven't bitten down on the current tryhard weapons/builds.

Will be interesting to see how builds that are already strong enough are with buffed weapons. Has someone made sure Piranhas/Fleas won't be just completely off the chain? Also laservomit Hellbringer comes to mind as being already top tier despite not using meta weapons.

[Fishtiddies]

[Krasnopesky]

Lockheed_, on 02 April 2021 - 12:55 PM, said:

I am a bit worried how much talk is there about to increase TTK, if anything good came from the march patch was that with cERPPCs the TTK finally went down a bit. I think it is still too high. I just dont like the "will you ******* die?!" moments when you shoot and already crippled mech and they just keep going. Same if my mech is already critical and it's missing 3/4 of it's weapons, I'd rather get killed quickly and queue up for another match then somehow walk around crippled and with nothin more that 2 ML. At the same time just running into the enemy and get it over with feels like throwing.

cERPPC received a buff in the March patch.

As I have said to others, the best performing weapons that dictate TTK currently were not touched in this weapon balance pass.

[Firewired]

Thank you for communicating these changes, and to Matt and Daeron and those in the community who spent significant amounts of their own time contributing to making this happen.

I look forward to seeing more variety in both mechs and gameplay going forward.

I will not miss the PTS. Changes live are fine as long as everyone understands that things will be adjusted over time as gameplay and community feedback arrives post-changes. The side benefit being that this should speed up the change curve as well.

Good to see changes to Air/Arty Strikes, hopefully people will be open to further adjustments over time as feedback comes in post-change if needed.

I do not agree with the logic behind removing AMS ammo explosions. This basically makes AMS ammo the ultimate crit-padding protection. It also mostly invalidates LAMS except on Light mechs that do not have the tonnage for standard AMS ammo. Standard AMS is suddenly a no-risk slot and tonnage investment for significant reward in defensive protection.

[TwilightTactician]

My happiness is immeasurable and my day is made.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Stink Bug, on 02 April 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:

Got some reservations with some of the changes (looks like return of deathstrike and HLL metabringer spam?) and if I'm reading correctly quad light gauss assaults will now be spitting 40 pinpoint alphas from across the map but for the most part it looks like positive changes. And if not, we'll adapt. Confused behind the rationale for Clan Gauss though:

I don't think that the number of gauss rifles you can charge at once will be changed, so no 40-point-PPFLD-no-heat-alphas. Instead you'll be able to fire PPCs at the same time as LGauss without getting a heat penalty.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 02 April 2021 - 02:05 PM.

[Panther9x]

OMG, this all sounds great! Thanks Daeron, Matt and the Cauldron for giving the community alot of exciting changes. Oh, and PGI can you please give me more armor on all my mechs (no one elses, just mine) so I can be more competitive against all the tier one try-hards I keep getting pitted against. That would be lovely....thanks!

[Panther9x]

This sounds great! Thanks Matt, Daeron, and the Cauldron for putting in the effort on this.

[Kray76]

If this isnt an April Joke, then will be a drama.

What means this Patch?

Experienced Players:
- more Dakka
- AC 20 you can go through the lines like a knife throught butter
- same for Laser and SRM builds.

non experienced Players / Newbies:
- no chance against player who has a good aim.
- more frustrating gameplay (its already frustrating for new players, now,it will be more)


We would to grow our Playerbase again and not to shrink them.
If this is the outcome from the couldron, then this means, they are wrong and you have to change this system.
For me, its great, but i dont want to kill less experienced players yet easier.

This is the wrong direction.

[TTB]

Good move!

Edited by TTB, 02 April 2021 - 02:58 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Kray76, on 02 April 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

If this isnt an April Joke, then will be a drama.

What means this Patch?

Experienced Players:
- more Dakka
- AC 20 you can go through the lines like a knife throught butter
- same for Laser and SRM builds.

non experienced Players / Newbies:
- no chance against player who has a good aim.
- more frustrating gameplay (its already frustrating for new players, now,it will be more)


We would to grow our Playerbase again and not to shrink them.
If this is the outcome from the couldron, then this means, they are wrong and you have to change this system.
For me, its great, but i dont want to kill less experienced players yet easier.

This is the wrong direction.

I don't disagree with the idea of making the game more accessible and simple. I mean they kinda don't like homing weapons at all. That being said, you're blowing things out of proportion. The main offenders of low TTK are pretty much left untouched. The ATMs deserve damage reduction, and Streaks do nuke lights.

Yes the game needs more accessibility, I do think it needs a space for the players to Git-Gud, not to be churned out one after another by veterans. I think it needs AI Bots to teach fundamentals in an active environment, sadly given PGI's track record of poor coding, they would rather give the rookies homework in the form of tutorials made by popular figures.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 02 April 2021 - 03:07 PM.

[Stink Bug]

The6thMessenger, on 02 April 2021 - 03:04 PM, said:

Yes the game needs more accessibility, I do think it needs a space for the players to Git-Gud, not to be churned out one after another by veterans. I think it needs AI Bots to teach fundamentals in an active environment, sadly given PGI's track record of poor coding, they would rather give the rookies homework in the form of tutorials made by popular figures.

In my experience with other FPS's, practice on AI bots unfortunately lowers novices' expectations and reinforces techniques that don't work on humans, and that's assuming the AI is even semi decent. Segregating new players at Tier 5 & 4 should already be helping a lot; however with the lowish player count being what it is I wonder how often they still get thrown into matches with high tiers.

That's one of many reasons I'm disappointed with PGI for going Epic Exclusive for MW5; by limiting the playerbase for that while it was shiny and new they also squandered a chance to revitalize MWO by linking it as the multiplayer "component" of MW5 for the new players.

Edited by Stink Bug, 02 April 2021 - 03:25 PM.

[MyriadDigits]

Kray76, on 02 April 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

If this isnt an April Joke, then will be a drama.

What means this Patch?

Experienced Players:
- more Dakka
- AC 20 you can go through the lines like a knife throught butter
- same for Laser and SRM builds.

non experienced Players / Newbies:
- no chance against player who has a good aim.
- more frustrating gameplay (its already frustrating for new players, now,it will be more)


We would to grow our Playerbase again and not to shrink them.
If this is the outcome from the couldron, then this means, they are wrong and you have to change this system.
For me, its great, but i dont want to kill less experienced players yet easier.

This is the wrong direction.

What this really means:

Experienced Players:
- Options other than cERPPC for long range play
- Options other than UAC5/10 for mid range play
- Options other than LB10 or MPL for short range play

Inexperienced Players/Newbies:
- No longer being massively handicapped because they chose a cool looking weapon instead of pulling a code off of grimmechs.
- In all honesty would get owned by players above their skill level regardless of weapon balance changes.

The only thing that realistically holds a hope of reducing the stompage between high skill and low skill players (disregarding the futile nature of the act) is not weapon balance, but improving the New Player Experience (tutorials and the like) so that they actually know how to play the game by the time they see their first live match against humans.

[The6thMessenger]

Stink Bug, on 02 April 2021 - 03:23 PM, said:

In my experience with other FPS's, practice on AI bots unfortunately lowers novices' expectations and reinforces techniques that don't work on humans, and that's assuming the AI is even semi decent. Segregating new players at Tier 5 & 4 should already be helping a lot; however with the lowish player count being what it is I wonder how often they still get thrown into matches with high tiers.

The point of AI Bot isn't to foster expectation, but to familiarize them with the game. Segregation will only work so long as there's enough players, but the problem is precisely low players.

Stink Bug, on 02 April 2021 - 03:23 PM, said:

That's one of many reasons I'm disappointed with PGI for going Epic Exclusive for MW5; by limiting the playerbase for that while it was shiny and new they also squandered a chance to revitalize MWO by linking it as the multiplayer "component" of MW5 for the new players.

Yeah, they're pretty dumb. It's actually quite sad that they instead diverted the epic money in developing MW5 further instead of keeping MWO, their real money-maker, alive.

[cougurt]

i'm convinced that some people won't be satisfied with TTK until they're able to tank a firing line for 5 minutes straight.