64 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

Just to be sure that we are (literally) on the same page, I believe the April 20th 2021 PTS/Gulag/Cauldron Weapons/Equipment changes are listed as below:

http://docs.google.c...pFhxVj8J4w/edit

[BreakinStuff]

Antares102, on 13 April 2021 - 08:02 AM, said:

You know who you are talking to right?
D A T A is almost god level related to skill and gameplay knowledge in MWO.

I thoiught he was an arrogant ***** a year ago, I thought he was an arrogant ***** when I started. he acts like he's the only one that groks the game.

Tell me, if IS mechs are so overpowered why does the Tukkayyid and community warfare always go heavily in the clan favor?

[RickySpanish]

D A T A, on 13 April 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

Please do not provide false infos.
Clan ac20 comes in 4 shells
Post patch it will stll come out in 3 shells, not 2

whoops typo, fixed it!

[Nightbird]

BreakinStuff, on 13 April 2021 - 08:13 AM, said:

I thoiught he was an arrogant ***** a year ago, I thought he was an arrogant ***** when I started. he acts like he's the only one that groks the game.

Tell me, if IS mechs are so overpowered why does the Tukkayyid and community warfare always go heavily in the clan favor?

It's been years since the last Tukkayyid, and those go clan because IS mechs are cheaper and so all the newbies are playing IS.

[AncientRaig]

w0qj, on 13 April 2021 - 08:08 AM, said:

Just to be sure that we are (literally) on the same page, I believe the April 20th 2021 PTS/Gulag/Cauldron Weapons/Equipment changes are listed as below:

http://docs.google.c...pFhxVj8J4w/edit

LAMS down to 1 heat a second? Tonnage free IS CASE? Starting to undo the massacre of energy weapons PGI did the last time they did a massive balance sweep? My god, it's good content! The only thing it's missing is bringing the UAC velocity up to be in line with the standard ACs and removing the standard IS PPC's minimum range so the weapon has a reason to exist.

Edited by AncientRaig, 13 April 2021 - 08:19 AM.

[BreakinStuff]

Nightbird, on 13 April 2021 - 08:16 AM, said:

It's been years since the last Tukkayyid, and those go clan because IS mechs are cheaper and so all the newbies are playing IS.

So if experienced pilots ALL GO TO CLANS that would indicate a sharp advantage to clan mechs, and the best players always gravitate towards circumstances that give the most advantage. So you're making my point for me.

If only new players run IS mechs, what advantage is there to playing them?

[Nightbird]

BreakinStuff, on 13 April 2021 - 08:24 AM, said:

So if experienced pilots ALL GO TO CLANS that would indicate a sharp advantage to clan mechs, and the best players always gravitate towards circumstances that give the most advantage. So you're making my point for me.

If only new players run IS mechs, what advantage is there to playing them?

Outside of events, when only the regulars play, IS has the advantage in balance today. Try queuing up on Clan side, you'll see.

This is because in game money is out of the equation. In any MMO, the side with more newbies loses.

[BreakinStuff]

Nightbird, on 13 April 2021 - 08:27 AM, said:

Outside of events, when only the regulars play, IS has the advantage in balance today. Try queuing up on Clan side, you'll see.

This is because in game money is out of the equation. In any MMO, the side with more newbies loses.

so why do experienced players gravitate to clans? Your claims don't wash

[Nightbird]

BreakinStuff, on 13 April 2021 - 08:29 AM, said:

so why do experienced players gravitate to clans? Your claims don't wash

During events, the hordes of infrequent players come out and since they haven't played enough to afford the clan mechs, they only queue up on IS side. When the side with more people has to wait to play, the people with Clan mechs switch sides to avoid the wait.

Tech balance has nothing to do with event pop, other macro issues pop up. You can see in everyday play where the balance is, and right now IS is slightly better though overall balance is good. If you don't believe me queue up on Clan side in FP, feel the evidence through your own burning wreck

Edited by Nightbird, 13 April 2021 - 08:34 AM.

[Spheroid]

Your complaint is pointless. Even if ghostheat was removed you should rarely fire AC-40 together owing the enormous convergence error incurred using a King Crab.

Ghostheat is mercifully preventing you from playing worse.

[Gagis]

AncientRaig, on 13 April 2021 - 08:06 AM, said:

On the one hand, it's not like this actually matters because who even uses C-ACs over LBXs or UACs when they all weigh the exact same? On the other, unless something's being specifically noted to prevent this case, this gives a single Clan UAC20 the ability to instantly double-tap without hitting Ghost Heat, while a single IS UAC20 will still have to wait the half a second or so that it takes to not trigger the penalty as, if I'm remembering correctly at least, Ghost Heat considers double-tapping a UAC to be the same as firing two standard ACs. This'll interacting interestingly with the Hunchback IIC which, since it already has a UAC20 HSL +1 quirk, will be able to double-tap without any worry about heat spikes.

The non-ultra clan AC is being changed, not the ultra one.

EDIT: Also, inner sphere mechs are currently more popular than clan mechs in competitive play.

Edited by Gagis, 13 April 2021 - 08:37 AM.

[D A T A]

BreakinStuff, on 13 April 2021 - 08:29 AM, said:

so why do experienced players gravitate to clans? Your claims don't wash

Please do not provide false info.
Every barely decent player knows IS is stronger since 2017.
That is why in COMP 2019 AND 2020 MORE THAN 70% OF THE MECHS USED WERE INNER SPHERE

The graphics are available in MWO Comp discord

Even the winning team of all comps (JGx) (aka me and my friends) gravitate more on IS mechs

Edited by D A T A, 13 April 2021 - 08:44 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

"Clan favoritism" wow what a sad argument.

2 AC20 fired 0.5 seconds apart is a 2 shot burst.

2 Clan AC20s fired together is a 3 shot burst.

Edge, IS.

[D A T A]

Spheroid, on 13 April 2021 - 08:36 AM, said:

Your complaint is pointless. Even if ghostheat was removed you should rarely fire AC-40 together owing the enormous convergence error incurred using a King Crab.

Ghostheat is mercifully preventing you from playing worse.

Its even more pointless than what you think.
Ghost heat is linked to base heat value
We made base heat less
Means that ghost heat on 2ac20 will be very very very low

[BreakinStuff]

D A T A, on 13 April 2021 - 08:37 AM, said:

Please do not provide false info.
Every barely decent player knows IS is stronger since 2017.
That is why in COMP 2019 AND 2020 MORE THAN 70% OF THE MECHS USED WERE INNER SPHERE

The graphics are available in MWO Comp discord

Even the winning team of all comps (JGx) (aka me and my friends) gravitate more on IS mechs

False information vs. anecdotal evidence.

[Antares102]

BreakinStuff, on 13 April 2021 - 08:13 AM, said:

I thoiught he was an arrogant ***** a year ago, I thought he was an arrogant ***** when I started. he acts like he's the only one that groks the game.

Well, that's the "privilige" of being almost god tier.
Look I have in-game blocked D A T A myself but in terms of skill and gameplay understanding he knows
what he is talking about and scrubs like you and me are well adviced to respect what he says.

BreakinStuff, on 13 April 2021 - 08:13 AM, said:

Tell me, if IS mechs are so overpowered why does the Tukkayyid and community warfare always go heavily in the clan favor?

Counter question? Why do Davions suck so much in FP?
Because Davion was (or still is) the first flag you see when selecting a faction.
Many players that dont know what all these factions and lore are about simply select the first flag they see.
So statistically most new players are Davion and thus Davion has more suckage potential.
Since Davion is IS and they suck more than others factions, Clan has the edge here.

Another reason might be because Clan are TEH EVIL from a lore perspective so many lore nerds dont want to play them.

Finally, clan weapons have more heat issues that you have to manage, and many (new) players cannot work with that so they rather pick IS then clan. More n00bs in IS => better for clan in FP.

Edited by Antares102, 13 April 2021 - 08:56 AM.

[D A T A]

Antares102, on 13 April 2021 - 08:54 AM, said:

Well, that's the "privilige" of being almost god tier.
Look I have in-game blocked D A T A myself but in terms of skill and gameplay understanding he knows
what he is talking about and scrubs like you and me are well adviced to respect what he says.



Counter question? Why do Davions suck so much in FP?
Because Davion was (or still is) the first flag you see when selecting a faction.
Many players that dont know what all these factions and lore are about simply select the first flag they see.
So statistically most new players are Davion and thus Davion has more suckage potential.
Since Davion is IS and they suck more than others factions, Clan has the edge here.

Another reason might be because Clan are TEH EVIL from a lore perspective so many lore nerds dont want to play them.

Finally, clan weapons have more heat issues that you have to manage, and many (new) players cannot work with that so they rather pick IS then clan. More n00bs in IS => better for clan in FP.

Add that clan stock mechs beat IS stock mechs, and most pugs run stock builds or close to it

[BreakinStuff]

Antares102, on 13 April 2021 - 08:54 AM, said:

Well, that's the "privilige" of being almost god tier.

I don';t care if PGI has made him their holy saint.

He wants respect, he can damn well show some courtesy. until then he's just an arrogant rando who is neither worthy of consideration nor in my interest to engage. God-tier does not give privilege, a jerk is a jerk, and will be treated with no more consideration than a regular jerk.

[CFC Conky]

D A T A, on 13 April 2021 - 08:46 AM, said:

Its even more pointless than what you think.
Ghost heat is linked to base heat value
We made base heat less
Means that ghost heat on 2ac20 will be very very very low

I've been playing for four years now and have seen plenty of IS mechs sporting 2xAC20, those that can anyway. I've tried it as well and for me the issue is not ghost heat but rather the sacrifices I have to make to fit them, i.e. ammo, armour, mobility.

I think the biggest benefit for the IS/C AC20 is the increased velocity.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Antares102]

BreakinStuff, on 13 April 2021 - 09:02 AM, said:

I don';t care if PGI has made him their holy saint.

He wants respect, he can damn well show some courtesy. until then he's just an arrogant rando who is neither worthy of consideration nor in my interest to engage. God-tier does not give privilege, a jerk is a jerk, and will be treated with no more consideration than a regular jerk.

Well.... maybe nobody has introduced you to internetz yet. Nobody is obliged to be polite here.
No matter how arrogant you think he is and how much courtesy you think you deserve, you are the scrub and he is almost god tier. Thus, what he says has 99% chance to have merit (if he is serious) and you have a 1% chance.