92 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

MechaGnome, on 15 April 2021 - 05:20 PM, said:

A lot of players don't even know who the Cauldron are, so were have no idea who is responding.

People who are members, like Ash and Krasnopesky, frequently identify themselves as such in their responses to people. So there may be some ways for them to be more clearly identified (a role on the forum, idk) but they're working pretty openly imo.

[Dogstar]

Lockheed_, on 15 April 2021 - 09:02 PM, said:

just let it go man. people only see/hear/read what they want to see/hear/read.

That is kind of my problem, not because I'm unwilling to read and understand a 28 page thread but more because I simply don't know it's there

I think maybe all that's missing, and hopefully would allow people like to ASH to not have to repeat themselves is some sort of pinned thread, probably in general discussion, that provides links to all the places where the discussion is going on. I realise it's tricky to keep people in touch with the discussion but a little bit more effort in that direction would have meant I didn't embarrass myself with the original post and could have contributed to the discussion

Just to reiterate, in case it isn't clear, I'm entirely in support of the Cauldron, even if I disagree with some of the individual numbers chosen, because it's such a major step in the right direction of PGI interacting with the community

[justcallme A S H]

All discussion has been in the Announcements threads since Sept.

It's about as close to one place as people can get really.

[Dogstar]

justcallme A S H, on 16 April 2021 - 12:40 AM, said:

All discussion has been in the Announcements threads since Sept.

It's about as close to one place as people can get really.

I know, it's probably just me being a bit single-minded

[x Deathstrike x]

justcallme A S H, on 15 April 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:

We then have a weekly meeting, sometimes 3 times a week, to discuss the proposals in detail as they are an ever evolving beast and often quite fluid. PGI might give us a direction by saying "hey, can you guys tell us what you think about X by the end of the week" and we then scramble and go about our business. Lucky we are committed and span 24hrs across the group so there is always work being done.

The changes are heavily, heavily debated prior to the meetings, one single value might take 48hrs to agree upon (not even joking here). It is also rare for all the members to unanimously agree.

Holy cow, didnt know on what kind of level you invest your time here
Now I understand why the initiative first was called gulag.
Somehow I start to feel bad for enjyoing all your work without giving you some sort of compensation.

The only thing I see I can offer for now is my appreciation and perhaps defend your initiative and decisions!
As suspected I dont support all changes fully, but that is nit picking and I am fully
behind you guys and back you against whatever sh|tstorm that might happen after 20th.

[justcallme A S H]

Most have absolutely no idea how much time is being invested collectively as a group. The values aren't something we are just dreaming about and banging into 2 days before a patch.


Honestly compensation hasn't been discussed once, I haven't even thought about it. This is all just for the good of a game we love and know can return to a higher population we've seen in the past. What that number is we won't know till late this year and see the feedback.

[Dionnsai]

Dogstar, on 15 April 2021 - 04:51 AM, said:

You kind of made my point - I haven't seen it because it's hiding away in some corner of the forum. Not everyone scours the forum to find these threads.

From what I've seen, everything the Cauldron is doing has been discussed openly, consistently and enthusiastically on:

• These Forums
• Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutreachHPG/
• Basically every MWO discord server
• Probably the MWO facebook groups
• Every MWO Youtuber
• Every MWO Twitch Strreamer
• Easy to find details with a simple google or forum search: https://www.google.c...Q4dUDCA4&uact=5

The only way anyone doesn't know or have access to the information at this point is an attitude of willful blindness or lack of interest.

Also, I want to say that anyone not using at least the MWO Comp discord ( https://discord.com/invite/6wxM5hC) is really missing out on probably the best all around MWO community available for gameplay information (and not just for comp players), you have access to tons of top tier players who are a lot more open and willing to help than you think they are on any number of topics, and on top of that, PGI doesn't have the content control over the space that they have here on the brown sea...and you can have a much more robust and "live" discussion with other players than you would ever be able to have here.

Edited by Dionnsai, 16 April 2021 - 06:59 AM.

[Dionnsai]

Dogstar, on 15 April 2021 - 04:07 AM, said:

...Phrases like 'the brown sea' are used...

MWO Forums have earned this reputation through a combination of general community behavior and bad management/moderation. A name like that doesn't come from nothing.

[InvictusLee]

The whole brown sea thing kinda ticks me off though, because it isnt all salt. Its poorly organized constructive and sometimes deconstructive criticisms and suggestions. The only reason the whole brown sea moniker tends to stick is because of PGI's notoriously thin skin when addressing said criticisms.

I'm all for improving the game but i really hate all the elitist/condescending talk.
Also, the forums are so poorly organized sometimes that people, generally dont know where the discussions are happening.
The only reason most of the discussion threads and repost threads end up here is because its been established as the place to gripe, where other forum goers will actually see, hence read, and discuss the matter at hand..

[Bowelhacker]

DAMMIT, THE CAULDRON MUST IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AT ALL TIMES SO WE HAVE SOMEONE TO BLAME!!!!

[Alexander of Macedon]

FWIW I hadn't played for more than a year when I came back in March. It took about three days to hear about the Gulag, figure out what they were doing, and infer who some of the contributors were based on posting patterns here and elsewhere.

It's really not been hidden or concealed, there are just a lot of people who can't take five minutes to look into something.

justcallme A S H, on 15 April 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:

• Comp Player Experience. (largely taking a back seat right now as Comp will just adapt anyway so we basically ignore it for now especially around balance).

This is an excellent point to make which should probably be emphasized more. This whole idea that the Gulag/Cauldron changes are supposedly just targeted on improving what comp players want to use is nonsensical, even though a shocking number of people are repeating it. Folks, the cutting edge of meta is such because it's already the best set of options available to players. High-end players, by and large, don't care and aren't attached to anything for non-pragmatic reasons.

Dionnsai, on 16 April 2021 - 07:03 AM, said:

MWO Forums have earned this reputation through a combination of general community behavior and bad management/moderation. A name like that doesn't come from nothing.

I mean, in a literal sense it derived first from the old forum color scheme.

[Vlad Ward]

November11th, on 17 April 2021 - 04:07 AM, said:

The whole brown sea thing kinda ticks me off though, because it isnt all salt. Its poorly organized constructive and sometimes deconstructive criticisms and suggestions. The only reason the whole brown sea moniker tends to stick is because of PGI's notoriously thin skin when addressing said criticisms.

I'm all for improving the game but i really hate all the elitist/condescending talk.
Also, the forums are so poorly organized sometimes that people, generally dont know where the discussions are happening.
The only reason most of the discussion threads and repost threads end up here is because its been established as the place to gripe, where other forum goers will actually see, hence read, and discuss the matter at hand..

I mean, the forums are also barely moderated so they've historically been a place where about a dozen motivated posters will keep making the same threads and posting the same stuff in every other thread over and over and over and over again to drown out every other conversation but the one they want to have.

You gotta understand what this is going in, friend. If you want to have an actual discussion, go to the Comp discord.

[InvictusLee]

Vlad Ward, on 17 April 2021 - 05:57 PM, said:

I mean, the forums are also barely moderated so they've historically been a place where about a dozen motivated posters will keep making the same threads and posting the same stuff in every other thread over and over and over and over again to drown out every other conversation but the one they want to have.

You gotta understand what this is going in, friend. If you want to have an actual discussion, go to the Comp discord.

Okay **** the discord.
I shouldn't have to navigate away from the MWO site to have a discussion about MWO.
It defeats the purpose of having a forum.

Im not saying you are wrong. I just have a problem with PGI not being directly in control of the platform.
I dont trust PGI in the slightest, however, having an offical place to go for discussions is kind of important.

[justcallme A S H]

We discuss the Cauldron proposals, which is player proposed, on a player run Discord under player control.

The Cauldron then puts that to PGI.

If PGI go through with it - PGI post it here in the forums.


So yeah if you want to be involved with prior discussions with the players involved, that's what you have to do. At no point is anyone being left in a position they cannot comment at any stage and no one is being excluded.

You as an individual can make your own choice as to which stage of the process you'd like to be involved.

[InvictusLee]

Aaaaalllllll right.
Link me

[justcallme A S H]

MWO Comp Discord

https://discord.gg/BKTPHaDn

[Brauer]

November11th, on 18 April 2021 - 11:31 PM, said:

Okay **** the discord.
I shouldn't have to navigate away from the MWO site to have a discussion about MWO.
It defeats the purpose of having a forum.

Im not saying you are wrong. I just have a problem with PGI not being directly in control of the platform.
I dont trust PGI in the slightest, however, having an offical place to go for discussions is kind of important.

Surely you realize that PGI also moderate their own MWV/MWO discord which includes specific channels for feedback on MWO and the Cauldron's proposals right? https://discord.gg/FFyCUnr3

[lolbbq]

I think all the compensation the Cauldron contributors really need is for people to approach it with an open mind and to give the changes a shot on their mechs before having a whinge. Don't knock it till you try it.

If you don't like it, sure have a whinge them but make sure to also include some constructive feedback.

Even if they screw it up, at least the response to fix it will be a lot faster.

[PocketYoda]

lolbbq, on 19 April 2021 - 08:24 PM, said:

I think all the compensation the Cauldron contributors really need is for people to approach it with an open mind and to give the changes a shot on their mechs before having a whinge. Don't knock it till you try it.

If you don't like it, sure have a whinge them but make sure to also include some constructive feedback.

Even if they screw it up, at least the response to fix it will be a lot faster.

We are hence the apprehension, to be honest i would have more preferred the PTS to test but PGI couldn't even do that.. Now we are all guinea pigs for good or bad..

Also some people detest change either way.. As i said i'm all for this i just voice my concerns and feel the resistance and condescending attitudes are tiresome.. As a brown sea player i look at these changes from a low tier perspective and a new customer perspective and think while the top tiers are enjoying their min maxing the bottom tiers will be burning.

Doesn't matter what we say either way we are on this ride if we like it or not it seems.

Edited by MechaGnome, 20 April 2021 - 04:58 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Sensationalist comments like "lower tiers will be burning" always make me laugh.

They always come with zero justification, proof or evidence.