354 replies to this topic

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Hey Rizzi,

you're not on the latest info it seems to me. Please read the whole story:

Cauldron Agility Pass Proposal
Average Match Time Statistics From Pgi - Cauldron Patch And The Future
Balance News - From The Cauldron

[Ghost of Kerensky]

Sorry if it's been said already but has anyone noticed how they say things are to make things more unique, but it's almost always things that are blatantly making them less unique? L-Gauss increased ranged to make it a *unique* extreme range weapon, even though the gauss got range increase too. A bigger one in fact. The range difference between them is now smaller not only relatively, but non-relatively as well, which is just strange. Also cooldown and damage made closer to the same on them. Velocity increased by 200 on light PPC to preserve uniqueness from autocannons. Even though AC10s and 5s also got 200 velocity increase (200 right?). And once again the difference between 1100 1200 1300 is less noticeable than that between 1300 1400 1500, (shorter time to impact difference). "PPCs lack uniqueness" so they address this by... letting them match the alpha of heavy PPCs and clan PPCs.... That makes them less unique, only it's less uniquely bad, so... that's still okay I guess.
I'm just concerned that this patch seems to have less care and attentiveness put into it than previous weapons patches. I'm not going into what I think of the actual changes in this specific reply, but the lazy cookie cutter language "we made x more viable by blah" "we want to lengthen time to kill, but also buffing all weapons" "we're making weapons more (but actually less) unique", it's a little concerning.

[Ghost of Kerensky]

Buff basically everything except for.... Streaks?...... Buff Light Gauss... but buff Gauss in a way that takes over Light Gauss' niche..
I like the general velocity buffs. I like a number of the changes made here, but looking at it overall, I think it's hamfisted, not as well thought out as I'm used to (I've agreed with almost every weapon update I've seen since I started playing this game, slow steps in the right direction) and as I mentioned in my previous reply, full of language that blatantly contradicts what's put in front of us.
I'm not going to try and say "oh they ruined the game" because this patch I think still improves more than it spoils, some care and attention did go into it, clearly. But I definitely hope there's more updates to come, more careful and better presented ones.

[CaiusScipio]

I'd like to take a moment to thank PGI for listening to a self appointed group of players that "represent the player base" to effect these latest changes. These changes have fully maximized the enjoyment of the game such that matches finish much sooner than the 15 min timer. For making other play style nearly obsolete. And for fostered techniques such as hugging corners and alpha striking anyone that turns it like other FPS games such as Call Of Duty. It's good to know that there is a game out there that won't turn mech combat into unarmored combat but inside a cockpit in robots. This is exactly what the game needed; a handful of players dictating what changes needs to be made simply because they are the loudest on the forums.

I expect many to send hate messages towards me and PGI not to actually read this and that's fine. But they should be aware that the majority of the player base is not on the forums and they should be reaching out to them for their opinions for a better understanding of what the player base actually wants.

That being said, I do have 1 request: please rework the Rotary Auto Cannon 2s and 5s as they have been and continue to be the most broken weapon in the game ... or add in HAG 40.

[Genesis23]

Rizzi Kell, on 04 May 2021 - 07:20 AM, said:

Dear Cauldron dear PGI, greetings to the rest of the playerbase, thx for taking affort in the game.
the last Patch came out and after reading the notes about it, i have known what will happened, with a bad feeling in my stomage i tried out a few more factiongames. I´m not one of the best players here more far away of that, but i´m expierienced in Clantech.
what i have seen so far is a turn into high alpha dmg builds, and then it starts to get even more unfair against claners. you can make easily builds that hit for 40 Pinpointdamage on 1000m every 5 sek( for example Warhammer 6R double lightgauss/ER-PPC,) with a heatscale up to 35%. Please show me one Clanbuild that could do the same.
I would like to complain that the cauldron (mostly Complayers) is not the most part of this game, they have good ideas but did you hear on the mainbase and their wishes?
I do not agree that this was a good patch, for taking a clear view on what should be patched, take all Quirks of all mechs, then see which mech should be looked onto, to get eventualy some love.
I will not start a discussion of LAW of battletech, that clanmechs must be better, just look and see witch weapon is the opposite to the other side, for example ATM VS MRM and make them equal, MRM have no minimum range so why have atms one? ATM could be shoot at 1000meters but is this effektive? no so get them to max range of MRM give them the same Heatpenalty and the same dmg to be equal. Why is IS-medpuls still better then the Clanmedpuls? you can complain that to every weapon. we have no counterpart for some of the effective weaponsystems of the IS.
Take a look on Stealth, only one side has it, but the counterpart of it, is to take PPC against it, cause in shorter 125meters no Tag will help to get this target marked, so just one single weaponsystem against an unfair and unbalanced part of the game.
As IS player you can easily take out an assault-Clanmech with a medium Streakboat, ever tryed it with a clanmedstreakboat against an IS assault?
Why has the IS an assaultmech that can carry 4AMS and do a lot of dmg? where is the counterpart on Clanside?
Racs are more then overpowered, why do they get a buff?
I will not say anything about mobility and scaling of the mechs, you work on it, but most IS mechs are much more better in mobility then the clanside. I like to get the aggility of the Kodiak 3 and the Timberwolf back, no you can not twist with both of it well. you whant to get the the time to kill up, just remove the quirks you gave in the past.
An Omnimech means, that you can equipp everything you want in it,so make sure that you can equip at least a AMS in every omnipodlocation.

by all respect, i cant possibly take you seriously after this.

have you forgotten about the massive advantages your clan weaponry has in terms of weight savings and range? just to name one example: two C-ML have about the same range and more dmg than an IS-LL, and that leaves 3 tons for DHS for the clanner.

and should i start to list all the broken clan mechs that the IS has no counterpart to as well? i admit i didnt play the game for a long time, didnt even patch it yet after those changes but my memory still allows for another example:
name me an IS medium mech that can haul double UAC20 as easily as the Hunchback IIC can. show me the IS counterpart to the Vapor Eagle. Show me which IS assault can litterally facerape anything below his own tonnage and most of the mechs above it as quickly and effordlessly while still being reasonably fast as the ballistic Madcat MKII or the Bloodasp.

the only thing keeping IS mechs even somewhat viable are the amount of quirks they have, without those quirks pretty much all IS mechs would have dissappeared from the battlefields long time ago. and even without those ridiculous quirks needed to make the other side viable the clan mechs still easily compete with the IS because of their advantages in weaponry weight and range.

also, you clearly misunderstood the meaning and abilities of the Omnimech. It allows for quick changes in entire compartments among the same model, giving you flexability in loadouts. it doesnt just "give you anything you want".

Edited by Genesis23, 10 May 2021 - 07:02 AM.

[Genesis23]

can someone explain to me why the IS MPL was seen as such a dominant weapon?

the only light mech on the IS side that has enough tonnage and hardpoints to use them in a meaningfull manner is the wolfhound as much as i am aware. oh and the firestarter.

both get smoked by the amount of firepower the arctic cheetah and piranha bring on the table, at least on paper.

[justcallme A S H]

Genesis23, on 11 May 2021 - 03:10 AM, said:

can someone explain to me why the IS MPL was seen as such a dominant weapon?

the only light mech on the IS side that has enough tonnage and hardpoints to use them in a meaningfull manner is the wolfhound as much as i am aware. oh and the firestarter.

both get smoked by the amount of firepower the arctic cheetah and piranha bring on the table, at least on paper.

IS MPL has been the go-to weapon for the highest level of play the last 2-3 years running.

Various mechs that use it:

Wolfhound / Urbie / Vulcan / Phoenix Hawk being the strongest and it also working well on
Hellspawn / Firestarter / Blackjack / Dervish - among plenty of others.


Looking at things on paper in terms of weapon damage doesn't mean a lot when you can leg/CT a PIR in a 6MPL volley.

[Serenna187]

Genesis23, on 11 May 2021 - 03:10 AM, said:

can someone explain to me why the IS MPL was seen as such a dominant weapon?

the only light mech on the IS side that has enough tonnage and hardpoints to use them in a meaningfull manner is the wolfhound as much as i am aware. oh and the firestarter.

both get smoked by the amount of firepower the arctic cheetah and piranha bring on the table, at least on paper.

solid damage and virtually no chance to roll that damage onto another component due to its short burntime,same for IS LPL

[Serenna187]

So first time playing again since the balance patch..lasers feel nice so far...but atms feel really terrible now,they are basicly LRMs with better spread at this point. risk/reward is almost null now,didn't bother using streaks but they seem to have went down the drain just as much.restore the damage values on those already

[C337Skymaster]

Alright, patch review, personal impressions (no supporting evidence presented, although I have screenshots of most of my match scores): TTK is down, and stomps are up. Whether true or not, it *feels* that way.

I play stock builds (or at least stock weapons). Pre-patch, I could usually perform decently. Post patch, I feel like I'm being forced to run boats more than pre-patch, because only a boat can put out the one-shot-kill level of damage necessary to compete in the current game. If you're trying to brawl in a DPS, multi-weapon fashion, you will be eviscerated before you can exceed 200 dmg. Opponent's first shot: right torso gone. Opponent's 2nd shot: left torso gone (which is death in a clan 'mech). Your only counter is to beat him at his own game (I'm seeing a lot of Warhammers with 2 ERPPC and 2 Light Gauss, putting out pinpoint damage at extreme range and dropping heavier targets in two or three shots before they have any chance to respond).

The one piece of evidence I'll present now, is that my tier rating was on a steady rise, even while leveling a couple 'mechs, pre-patch. I have dropped nearly a half-tier, post-patch (from top of Tier 3 to the middle of the same tier). My play-style and skill hasn't changed, but the firepower on the modern battlefield most certainly seems to have.

[Voice of Kerensky]

For the time that has passed since the introduction of this patch, I have played many times with medium-range laser builds (few clans and a lot of IS). And about a week on missiles mechs.
1) I liked the medium-range laser vomiting (LL + er meds, LPL + er meds).
2) I played several battles on the MRM-60 QKD-IV4. I felt that this mech had lost 25% of its armor quirks. You can really feel it. I also felt the changes in the MRM-30, you need to get used to the new mechanics of the missile salvo. At this point, I think the MRMs is getting better.
3) I played about 30 battles on the 8xssrm-4 Huntsman. The first fights were downright terrible. I still couldn't figure out if the streaks got better or worse. On the one hand, the accelerated reloading was pleasing to me, on the other hand, following the results of the battles, I noticed that the damage that I caused was less than it was before.
To understand why I got the impression that the streaks were getting worse, I decided to do a little math. No emotion, just mathematics and objectivity.
Calculation logic:
a ) Bring the amount of damage of old and new streaks to a single value through the number of salvos;
b ) Look at the cooldown time required to inflict this damage;
c ) Calculate the amount of heat generated for the previously calculated damage.
It should be noted that I calculated these indicators purely mathematically, without taking into account some indicators, such as:
1) Thermal capacity of the mech;
2) Ghost heat.
So what do the calculations show?
The damage dealt coincided on 192 points. To do this damage, it was earlier necessary to make 3 alpha strikes. After the changes were made, it became necessary to make 4 alpha strikes to inflict 192 points of damage. At the same time, it takes 9 seconds to inflict 192 points of damage (earlier and now). According to this parameter, the coincidence is complete, and one gets the impression that everything is fine. But I also calculated the third parameter - the heat generated. Previously, when dealing 192 points of damage, the SSRM-4x8 would generate 288 points of heat. After the introduction of the patch, when applying 192 points of damage, the SSRM-4x8 will generate 307.2 points of heat. Thus, the new SSRM-4x8 with 192 damage points became hotter by 6.67%. Yes, the streaks have gotten hotter.
Now, from objectivity to emotion. Earlier, playing on the SSRM-4x8 Huntsman, I tried to attack large targets first of all, I could afford to engage in a battle with a much heavier opponent and emerge victorious from it. I almost always ignored light 'Mechs, unless their pilots were stupid enough to leave oneself wide open.
Now, taking into account all of the above and my personal impressions after the battles on the indicated mech, I most likely will not dare to get involved in a battle with a heavier opponent. This means that I will start hunting for light mechs. Remind me, were the lightsdrivers whining about streak damage must be cut? Now I will be forced have to pay attention to the lights first. You have achieved the opposite effect (for me at least). Congratulations.
Now I will say a few words about two of my mechs. This is a Shadow Cat with 2xATM-9 and Huntsman with 2xATM-9 + 2xSSRM-4. Now, with the change in ATM and SSRM, I think they have lost their value, have become simply useless. Especially the Shadow Cat. He was not strong before (the best results, no artillery, maximum around 600 damage), but now, I think, he simply has no place on the battlefield. And Huntsman is not much better. It used to be a pretty good all-round missle mech. Now two SSRM-4s in close combat are simply useless even against lights, and two ATM-9 are ridiculous in medium and long-range combat. It's a pity, it was a very interesting assembly, on which I spent quite a few very interesting, good and memorable battles. RIP, I will never forget you both.

Now I want to touch on the topic of LRM. Probably everyone noticed that this patch for some reason bypassed the LRM. I don’t know what caused it. However, I would like to say a few words about them.
In some previous patches, LRM received direct buffs (for example, a flat trajectory of missiles if the target is in line of sight of the LRM boat).
There were also indirect LRM buffs:
1 )The ECM was dealt with in a generally strange way. When building a mech with an ECM, you need to spend 1 (or 2) critical slots in the mech, 1 (or 1.5) tonns of available tonnage, but this ECM will not work, so that it would start working, need to spend another 13 skill points.
2) With the introduction of the skill tree, the Radar Deprivation module has been torn to pieces. Now, in order to take a full Radar Deprivation, you need to spend 16 skill points. It is important, do not forget that the Radar Deprivation works only if it was possible to hide from all enemys and, importantly, the enemy's UAV.
3) At the same time, the LRM boat needs to spend only 10 skill points in order to take the full Target Decay. Nobody notices anything (ECM 13 sp, Radar Deprivation 16 sp)? Maybe in this place it is worth somehow a little more fairly to treat LRM boats and other mechs?
4) With the combination of the group and solo queues in a quick play (which I personally have always opposed), LRM boats got the opportunity to create pre-made groups, including NARC-mechs in their composition.
Are you thinking of turning your attention to the effectiveness of the LRM boats and the ability of the other Mechs to effectively withstand them?

Drop points. The drop points on one map have not been fixed yet. Needless to say about the rest of the maps? I would still like to get some information on this issue...

Edited by Voice of Kerensky, 17 May 2021 - 12:58 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

A point to consider about LRMs: In trying to account for heavy and assault boats of LRMs, it has become an impossible weapon system for light 'mechs to use (even more feast/famine than before, except mostly just famine). In an effort to balance out the queue, I will opt for light 'mechs. In order to achieve the dmg-dealt requirements for the ongoing challenge, I like to take light 'mechs that are meant for dealing damage instead of scouting (Adder, Kit Fox). They each have a fire-support build that carries between 30 and 40 missile tubes, although due to the nature of the game at this stage, they are often unable to contribute in any meaningful way to the battle, except with their laser and flamer backup weaponry, and sometimes with their NARC beacons, if properly shielded from AMS with a flight of sacrificial LRMs. These are similar volumes of missiles carried by Catapults and Trebuchets, and 'mechs such as Bushwackers, Centurions, and Javelins carry much less.

[KursedVixen]

I only thing i dislike about this patch

• Heavy Gauss Rifle
  
  • Weapon Health increased to 20 (from 15)
• Streak SRM (Clan)
  
• Damage decreased to 1.5 per missile (from 2)

• ATM
  
• Long range damage increased to 1.6 per missile (from 1.2)
  
• Short range damage decreased to 2.5 per missile (from 3.0)

First of all the heavy guass Why does is NEED MORE BUFFING!?!?

Second of all ATMs were never meant to be long range weapons that replace LRMs they have a lower tube count and in Table top they were unable to do Indirect fire I prefer the 1 damage at long range and 3 at short..... (Guess i won't be using ATMs anymore.)

Finally on the clan streaks, so now there's like no point in using clan streaks when you can get better damage out of normal ones well, thanks for making clan streaks obsolete i guess I'll put that extra tonnage elsewhere... the extra range is hardly worth the extra tonnage and lower damage.. along with needing a lock and almost always needing an active probe to cancel ECM.(it's not like i already didn't use streaks anyway.)

Edited by KursedVixen, 17 May 2021 - 09:28 AM.

[Leone]

That's streaks that got their damage cut. SRMs are still viable.

~Leone.

[KursedVixen]

Leone, on 17 May 2021 - 09:21 AM, said:

That's streaks that got their damage cut. SRMs are still viable.

~Leone.

yeah i mentioned that., if you read my description you'd see i meant streaks. along with the fact I rarely use them so i guess that kinda doesn't matter to me, but I always consider player impact and not just my own opinion....

Edited by KursedVixen, 17 May 2021 - 09:30 AM.