40 replies to this topic

[Johnny Slam]

As the title, the change to the Artilary and Airstrikes has removed any tactical or area denial effect from the weapons.

Since the change, whenever I see red smoke targets will elect to stay in the area or just walk through it ingoring the strike. cutting the damage per hit by 66% has removed the threat that would make a mech avoid or leave the strike area. Smart pilots have done the math and know there is very little real risk now.

Even when used at the end of match versus beat up targets the puny 5pt hits are not doing squat. I'm sure it looked good on paper, but now that it has been run live it is clear that the changes to the strikes have reduced them to nothing more than "secondary damage generators" with no battle space or area-denial capability.

The feast or famine of the orig version wasn't perfect and it did indeed mean that you could quite possibly waste a consumable and end up doing no damage... but the threat of some real damage even if only a possiblity gave pilots pause and made them scramble, the only mechs scrambling now are lights and they were successfully scrambling previously as well.

Revert the change.

[Monkey Lover]

People care about the 5dmg the issue is once you get hit its already to late to move. Why risk getting out of cover and getting hit by the other team on top of it.

Be fun to see how it would go with 1dmg a shell but it lasted 1 minute.

[Bud Crue]

Johnny Slam, on 27 April 2021 - 02:44 AM, said:

As the title, the change to the Artilary and Airstrikes has removed any tactical or area denial effect from the weapons.

Since the change, whenever I see red smoke targets will elect to stay in the area or just walk through it ingoring the strike. cutting the damage per hit by 66% has removed the threat that would make a mech avoid or leave the strike area. Smart pilots have done the math and know there is very little real risk now.

Not claiming to be "smart" but a lot of us have always ignored strikes.

[Dionnsai]

I disagree, I've placed many strikes far enough in front of a push that the lead mechs have time to see the smoke, and they definitely stop.

[Wid1046]

Yeah people often go through strikes to avoid getting caught by the enemy team. If your choice is to take some damage from a strike or be out of position and die, then the choice is obvious. This is the same reason why assaults will cross through the center on Nascar-heavy maps like Caustic; taking some damage is better than being dead.

This was the case before as well, but you're probably just noticing it more since strikes last twice as long and now almost match the global cooldown. Being almost as long as the global cooldown makes it so that the moment a strike ends behind you a new one is often spammed in front of you.

Edit to clarify my opinion on strikes: I think that the changes are a large improvement, but the global cooldown on strikes should be looked at.

Edited by Wid1046, 27 April 2021 - 05:02 AM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Dionnsai, on 27 April 2021 - 04:52 AM, said:

I disagree, I've placed many strikes far enough in front of a push that the lead mechs have time to see the smoke, and they definitely stop.

I have seen the same. Your mileage may vary depending on Tier and player awareness.

The huge positive from the change is Team Damage from blissfully unaware teammates is way down.

[justcallme A S H]

The strike change is great.

No longer are 3-6 mechs losing 20-40% armour in a 4s from a single Atry strike mouse click.
If you proceed to eat another strike 10-15s later you will end up around the same level of damage taken (Depending on RNGesus).

Airstrikes still firmly punish an entrenched mech. They just don't again, eat a 20-40% armour loss. It'll take 2-3 strikes now.

Game is now about players actually doing damage and controlling their mech, firing as opposed to just dumb-farming with single mouse button clicks for 2208-300dmg.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 April 2021 - 06:09 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

I've said it before and I'll say it again-
The ability to strike should be limited to specific mechs- generally lights and mediums, and maybe a few specific heavy/assaults.

Like jumpjets, they should add flavor/role warfare to a select number of mechs.
Then increasing the damage could be justified.

[Wid1046]

justcallme A S H, on 27 April 2021 - 06:08 AM, said:

The strike change is great.

No longer are 3-6 mechs losing 20-40% armour in a 4s from a single Atry strike mouse click.
If you proceed to eat another strike 10-15s later you will end up around the same level of damage taken (Depending on RNGesus).

Airstrikes still firmly punish an entrenched mech. They just don't again, eat a 20-40% armour loss. It'll take 2-3 strikes now.

Game is now about players actually doing damage and controlling their mech, firing as opposed to just dumb-farming with single mouse button clicks for 2208-300dmg.

The arty change is definitely an improvement and is still quite effective at punishing entrenched mechs. My only concern is the effect on controlling routes. Previously you could only force enemy mechs to stop for 3 seconds before they could proceed through a choke point, now even a single strike lasts 6 seconds, however that isn't too bad on its own. The problem I see is that it is that the length of a strike is about the same as their global cooldown, so a choke point can be controlled indefinitely by a group (technically a group of 4 can only control a choke for 48 seconds, however you get my point). Or on a map like Tourmaline or Canyon with multiple close choke points you can alternate which choke is available to break up the enemy team to give your murderball the advantage.

All that would be required to prevent this would be a few seconds between the end of one arty strike and the beginning of the next to allow a team to pass through. The changes you made to the strikes are still a massive improvement over what they were however and I'm loving the all the weapon changes. Thank you for all of your work on this.

[D A T A]

The strike change is great, no more "hey i just lost 40% to a random bomb i could not even see"
Also, we added MORE bombs that go on for longer, making it less random and more area denial, because the bombs keep going.

Edited by D A T A, 27 April 2021 - 09:47 AM.

[Brizna]

Nope, I disagree, strikes are useless. Before they were something to fear now they are a joke. You'll see how as time goes on and more people realize a Spider 5V is more dangerous no one will care about them.

Edited by Brizna, 27 April 2021 - 10:32 AM.

[Wid1046]

Brizna, on 27 April 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

Nope, I disagree, strikes are useless. Before they were something to fear now they are a joke. You'll see how as time goes on and more people realize a Spider 5V is more dangerous no one will care about them.

Well I would certain hope the the Spider 5V and for that matter every other mech would be more dangerous than a consumable that can be slapped onto anything without taking up any weight or slots. I don't think that people agree that strikes are useless as they're still being spammed in virtually every match. They also aren't supposed to do huge damage numbers, but serve to get people to move out of entrenched positions.

[Livingvicarious]

I have my strikes fully spec'd with the extra munitions. I've been squeezing out some chunky damage with it.
It still softens them up, it just isn't absolutely merking them like before. I don't see a problem with the change, there is way too much arty spam to justify it doing the old damage.
Besides I hated losing most of my light mech or god forbid my entire mech because I wandered into a stray arty because I couldn't see the smoke as I was running through.

[Roger Dabbit]

feeWAIVER, on 27 April 2021 - 08:59 AM, said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again-
The ability to strike should be limited to specific mechs- generally lights and mediums, and maybe a few specific heavy/assaults.

Like jumpjets, they should add flavor/role warfare to a select number of mechs.
Then increasing the damage could be justified.

This seems like a cool idea to me. Would also give heavier lights/lighter mediums a more productive anti-light role in running off lights that try to paint the fatties for strikes/missiles.

Edited by Roger Dabbit, 27 April 2021 - 11:08 AM.

[John Bronco]

I do miss the damage farming potential of the old strikes, but I think it's ultimately good for the game to tone them down and repurpose for area denial.

Dropping a strike behind you if the nascar is closing in is now an excellent tactic.

If you choose to run through strikes when you have other options available you are simply undervaluing your armor.

[Bud Crue]

Johnny Slam, on 27 April 2021 - 02:11 PM, said:

[redacted]

Hmm. While I get that you are trying to go after Ash personally, the more I think about your question, the more I like the answer you are implying. Let's pretend Ash is the balance overlord, and has replaced Chris. Ash, is listening to folks like Navid and others who have shown a clear understanding of the game. I like that. I like that a lot.

Now lets consider the past balance overlord and his willingness to take player input...

Yeah, Ash would be a step up if that were the case; a big step up.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 28 April 2021 - 02:49 AM.
quote cleanup

[Johnny Slam]

D A T A, on 27 April 2021 - 09:46 AM, said:

The strike change is great, no more "hey i just lost 40% to a random bomb i could not even see"
Also, we added MORE bombs that go on for longer, making it less random and more area denial, because the bombs keep going.

The problem here Data, is that you added some more bombs that do MUCH MUCH LESS damage and people on the battle field are happy to suck up a piss-weak 5 points. End results even ignoring the useless indiviual bombs is that you cut the overall damage of an entire strike by 1/3, HUGE change that makes it useless for denial. No one except a light is afraid and because you stretched it out even longer for even less damage even they are willing to sprint through it.

You Cauldron guys do know it is okay to not be 100% right all the time right? I mean you have realized that you may be off target occasionally and that it is okay to revert changes... the community at large is not going to have to suck it up because you gents don't ever want to admit a mistake right???

Right???????

Bud Crue, on 27 April 2021 - 02:17 PM, said:

Hmm. While I get that you are trying to go after Ash personally, the more I think about your question, the more I like the answer you are implying. Let's pretend Ash is the balance overlord, and has replaced Chris. Ash, is listening to folks like Navid and others who have shown a clear understanding of the game. I like that. I like that a lot.

Now lets consider the past balance overlord and his willingness to take player input...

Yeah, Ash would be a step up if that were the case; a big step up.

Not going after Ash personally, going after the posts made by Ash and what they mean to the game mate. Don't know the guy, don't think I can remember ever playing with him. So do us all a favor and lets address the question about who is in charge and not try to frame my inquiry as a cat-fight so that it can be dismissed or moderated eh?

Edited by Johnny Slam, 27 April 2021 - 02:25 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Well this thread took a rather strange turn.

[YueFei]

I don't know about you, but I still won't sit my mech in a strike zone taking needless damage.
1 strike might not do a lot, but if I sat in every single strike and ate 6 or 7 strikes from the enemy team (which could potentially bring 24 total strikes), I wouldn't have a mech left to fight with even if I didn't get hit by any other weapons.

[Bud Crue]

Johnny Slam, on 27 April 2021 - 02:23 PM, said:

Not going after Ash personally, going after the posts made by Ash and what they mean to the game mate. Don't know the guy, don't think I can remember ever playing with him. So do us all a favor and lets address the question about who is in charge and not try to frame my inquiry as a cat-fight so that it can be dismissed or moderated eh?

"sport"..."lifted your skirts"..."Ash thinks he is"...

Sounds personal to me. So you can pretend you are not engaging in a "cat-fight", but your statements sure make it sound pretty katty.