259 replies to this topic

[Hal Greaves]

justcallme A S H, on 07 May 2021 - 04:14 AM, said:

A lot? How many mechs would you / can you run DHG on?

Anni (2) / Fafnir (2) / Cyclops (1) / Victor (1) / Mauler (1) / Nightstar (1) - NSR being super bad.
Warhammer (1) / Thanatos (1)

Total - 10

Now out of 800 something chassis I'm going to say that 0.013% of mechs is not a a lot. I would not even say it's a little.

Then factor in all of them are extrmely slow, some of the slowest in the game... yikes

Back when I was playing regularly all of those mechs were known to have high PPFLD and you just kept tabs on them - they were all slow as heck so they weren't hard to avoid or play peek and poke with them but who knows, its been a while now. Doesn't seem like anything has changed.

[Leone]

pbiggz, on 07 May 2021 - 05:54 AM, said:

Im gonna sound like a broken record here but its probably worth pointing out that lowering time to kill is only a serious problem if the game continues to never have respawns. Give us respawns and people will tolerate, if not outright expect splashier weapons with higher kill potential.

We have respawns already. Faction warfare. Check my sig if you've never given it a try.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 07 May 2021 - 07:53 AM.

[pbiggz]

Leone, on 07 May 2021 - 07:53 AM, said:

We have respawns already. Faction warfare. Check my sig if you've never given it a try.

~Leone.

Respawns in quickplay.

[CFC Conky]

pbiggz, on 07 May 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

Respawns in quickplay.

What other changes to QP game modes should be implemented with respawns or should they just exist in QP without changing anything else?
Not a trick question.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[pbiggz]

CFC Conky, on 07 May 2021 - 08:09 AM, said:

What other changes to QP game modes should be implemented with respawns or should they just exist in QP without changing anything else?
Not a trick question.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

That would be the topic of another thread, but rotating spawn and objective locations around would also improve the quality of matches significantly. Other than that, in skirmish perhaps whatever team ended the 15 minutes with the most kills would get the win. Barring that, the game modes as they exist would actually work fine i think. They all seem to have been designed with respawn in mind, but those respawns were never provided.

More to the point of this thread, respawns mean people have more time to click robots. The fixation on TTK is an extension of people wanting to spend more time clicking robots. Raising time to kill, is not, and should not be considered the only tool for increasing time spent clicking robots, especially when something as obvious as respawns is available to address the problem.

[MrTBSC]

pbiggz, on 07 May 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

Respawns in quickplay.

no, quickplay should stay as is, if you want respawns you HAVE faction warfare for that..

quick play is meant for quick matches, one life, go in to kill and survive or die and be out of the match, done ...

Edited by MrTBSC, 09 May 2021 - 09:21 PM.

[Dogstar]

Sigh, I'm sure it's been said before but the trouble with respawns i quickplay is that you would end up wit the same problem with respawns in FW - a lot of matches end up with the losing side players getting slaughtered seconds after they're dropped in becasue the win was determined in the first drop and the rest of the match is pointless spawn camping that boosts the already winning side.

[Gagis]

Dogstar, on 09 May 2021 - 11:14 PM, said:

Sigh, I'm sure it's been said before but the trouble with respawns i quickplay is that you would end up wit the same problem with respawns in FW - a lot of matches end up with the losing side players getting slaughtered seconds after they're dropped in becasue the win was determined in the first drop and the rest of the match is pointless spawn camping that boosts the already winning side.

I think respawns have merit but this here is the largest serious argument against them. It's a real downside.

Both FW and respawn QP would probably be fine if the Ready button became a Concede button you can vote with to end the match after it has become clear one team has attained full control of the match.

[MrTBSC]

Gagis, on 09 May 2021 - 11:27 PM, said:

I think respawns have merit but this here is the largest serious argument against them. It's a real downside.

Both FW and respawn QP would probably be fine if the Ready button became a Concede button you can vote with to end the match after it has become clear one team has attained full control of the match.

which may as well be abused by griefers who may throw down the match too quickly ...

[Gagis]

MrTBSC, on 10 May 2021 - 02:55 AM, said:

which may as well be abused by griefers who may throw down the match too quickly ...

Of course. The vote threshold would have to be carefully selected to implement such a feature so that griefing would be hard but inactive players would also not make success impossible.

6/12 is probably too few, 10 is probably so many it'd almost never pass, so maybe 8/12.

[pbiggz]

every argument made here against respawns was a "im scared of change" argument; not substantially different from "you cant change weapon balance because then there would be a meta".

MrTBSC, on 09 May 2021 - 09:18 PM, said:

no, quickplay should stay as is, if you want respawns you HAVE faction warfare for that..

quick play is meant for quick matches, one life, go in to kill and survive or die and be out of the match, done ...

Do you really enjoy waiting 10-15 minutes for a match, playing for 3 minutes, having your team throw the match for you, and then waiting 10-15 minutes to get 3-5 more minutes of gameplay in? Also, why? When faction play first dropped it was easily the most popular game mode, the dumbing down of faction play is widely accepted as one of the main drivers of the population crash. Why not take some of the best parts of faction play and incorporate them into quick play? The games already have a 15 minute timer, it just never gets hit because we play 4 different flavours of skirmish.

Dogstar, on 09 May 2021 - 11:14 PM, said:

Sigh, I'm sure it's been said before but the trouble with respawns i quickplay is that you would end up wit the same problem with respawns in FW - a lot of matches end up with the losing side players getting slaughtered seconds after they're dropped in becasue the win was determined in the first drop and the rest of the match is pointless spawn camping that boosts the already winning side.

Quickplay gamemodes are symmetrical. Spawn camping doesn't really make all that much sense.

Gagis, on 09 May 2021 - 11:27 PM, said:

I think respawns have merit but this here is the largest serious argument against them. It's a real downside.

Both FW and respawn QP would probably be fine if the Ready button became a Concede button you can vote with to end the match after it has become clear one team has attained full control of the match.

This is entirely unnecessary because the boogeyman you're trying to fight off with this doesn't really exist.

Want solid 15 minute matches? Put dropdecks in quickplay, and make the objectives matter.

[kapusta11]

If FP conquest was its own game mode I'd only play it and nothing else. Won on points most of the time, but not without a fight, everyone gets to cap and shoot and teams have to be mindful about falling back to reinforceing their firing lines as they take losses.

Edited by kapusta11, 10 May 2021 - 09:34 AM.

[x Deathstrike x]

I am all for dropdecks of 4 and respawn in quickplay.
But instead of being able to use every mech only once you can pick it over and over again.
Make quickplay 30 min and allow people to pick mechs continuously based on the role they want to play from the preselected 4 mechs.

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 10 May 2021 - 08:45 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

Drop decks in quickplay would turn 5 minute 12-2 stomps into 30 minute 48-24 stomps.
And yes, there will be spawn camping.
And yes, there will be rage quitting.
And yes, at the end of the match there will be the 1 scumbag sniper who used his team as pug armor and has 3 mechs left to kill from fhe dropship.

[x Deathstrike x]

feeWAIVER, on 10 May 2021 - 08:57 AM, said:

And yes, there will be spawn camping.

If you can pick your spawn then this problem wont happen.

[Nightbird]

If re-spawn is added to QP timer should be set to no more than 10 mins. Quick and dirty.

[pbiggz]

Nightbird, on 10 May 2021 - 09:20 AM, said:

If re-spawn is added to QP timer should be set to no more than 10 mins. Quick and dirty.

Quickplay matches already have a 15 minute timer, so 10 wouldn't be too far off. Definitely not 30 minutes though. Matches of that length DO belong in faction play alone.

[pbiggz]

feeWAIVER, on 10 May 2021 - 08:57 AM, said:

Drop decks in quickplay would turn 5 minute 12-2 stomps into 30 minute 48-24 stomps.

Quickplay has 15 minute match timers, and you can hit objectives even faster than that.

feeWAIVER, on 10 May 2021 - 08:57 AM, said:

And yes, there will be spawn camping.

Virtually every single FPS game is able to respawn you without causing ruthless spawncamping. This is a non-issue.

feeWAIVER, on 10 May 2021 - 08:57 AM, said:

And yes, there will be rage quitting.
And yes, at the end of the match there will be the 1 scumbag sniper who used his team as pug armor and has 3 mechs left to kill from fhe dropship.

This is not different from how it is right now, so this is also not an issue.

Seriously,

NONE of these critiques are real critiques. Its all just knee jerk panic because you're scared of change but also hate the status quo.

[pbiggz]

feeWAIVER, on 10 May 2021 - 10:22 AM, said:

[redacted]

Bossman, i get being *very* nervous about PGI doing new stuff. The record isn't exactly golden, but let's be objective here. PGI is basically doing whatever we want now. We should be supportive of positive changes, not immediately dismissive.

[redacted]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 15 May 2021 - 05:49 AM.
quote cleanup

[Tarteso]

With heat penalty removed, both micro lasers and micro pulse lasers are overperforming in the pyr-2 (mostly the only mech taking advantage of this change): 14 microl +1 micropl grant 6 alphas before shutdown and it can kill or leg any mech easily and keep running, a bit too much IMO