167 replies to this topic

[GaelicWolf]

#stopthenascar

[Homer The Thief]

Nascar is just a playstyle tool used for winning because the enemy can't cope
Just like poptarting, or narc /massed lerms.
The number of threads just proves its effectiveness.

Unlike lrms or poptarts, its much harder to nerf and thank goodness for that.
Fix MM/skillgap and hurry up about it PGI, as you can't nerf the nascar.

No matter how many posts people make, PGI cannot appease you as they can't nerf the nascar.

Shake and Bake

Edited by Homer The Thief, 10 May 2021 - 01:02 PM.

[Wildstreak]

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 06:51 AM, said:

Care to elaborate or are you just going to poopoo on suggestions because change is scary?

Oh stop with the exaggerated drama. Plenty of times this has come up before and a lot of people including you have been around long enough to know the problems especially when it was argued and added to FW.
Respawns in FW are one of the reasons some people walked away from it never to return.

Anjian, on 10 May 2021 - 05:14 AM, said:

And what's that?

Try other games --- very successful ones in fact --- where there is respawns but not spawn camping and long dragged out matches. Let me see if you have figured out the mechanisms in those games that stop spawn camping and long dragged out matches.

I have tried plenty of games including ones with respawns and only 1 type of game can successfully implement them.

MOBAs.

Respawn problems again:
1 - Encourages spawn camping. This happened in FW, defender pushes out and spawn camps attackers. A number of people walked away from FW never to come back from this along with other reasons.
2 - Makes players more reckless. Since you can keep coming back, you play less intelligently with more charges and suicide attacks. Not having respawns forces more people to think about their actions since death has meaning something respawns remove.
3 - Drags out match time. More lives means the fight goes on longer, there are people who do not like being forced to fight for so long so you drive people away with this too.

MOBAs can get away with respawns due to MOBA design where spawn points are so deep behind enemy defenses by the time you get to the spawn points, you just attack to Core and end the match. Result you almost never see spawn camping in MOBAs and the various objectives and overall map design prevents reckless behavior almost all the time.

Here you have different modes mashed into QP including modes with little base defenses guarding spawns, closest is Incursion. Unless you force Incursion mode on everyone that will cause its own outrage from players.

Best example, compare how people play in Smite's Arena mode vs. other MOBA modes.
Smite Arena has a ticket system but almost no objective play yet has respawns. There is a reason only non-serious MOBA players do it, because typical Arena play is blindly rush in mindlessly trying to get kills, result it has been horrible since 2018. Add on to that they once tried Ranked Arena but killed it off after 1 strategy proved too OP.
Smite Arena is closest thing to MWO Skirmish.

[Nameless King]

Respawns no thanks

Also there is nothing wrong with nascar, it is a normal part of the game.

[pbiggz]

Wildstreak, on 10 May 2021 - 01:04 PM, said:

Oh stop with the exaggerated drama. Plenty of times this has come up before and a lot of people including you have been around long enough to know the problems especially when it was argued and added to FW.
Respawns in FW are one of the reasons some people walked away from it never to return.

Gonna need a big ol' citation needed on that one boss. People walked away from faction play when they basically removed all the company interaction from it, nerfing all the large units overnight, and thus deleting the bazillion or so smaller units that orbited around them. Suggesting that the mere presence of respawns drove people off is misleading at best, and im pretty sure you know that.

Nameless King, on 10 May 2021 - 01:08 PM, said:

Respawns no thanks

Also there is nothing wrong with nascar, it is a normal part of the game.

Following the team like lemmings and then dying is not fun. The "ok with the status quo" crew is the only crew worse than the "no changes because im scared" crew.

Edited by pbiggz, 10 May 2021 - 01:43 PM.

[pbiggz]

Homer The Thief, on 10 May 2021 - 12:32 PM, said:

Why not, please explain better.
Why is it not a thing?

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6396222

In comp their are no respawns and no nascar, due to smaller skill gaps imo as in comps they have matchmaking,
Div 1,Div2, Div C, etc

So imo it's not really about respawns as you seem to be fixated on, other wise NASCAR would be in comp games too due to lack of respawns.

If the relationship between skill and nascar were so simple, then the team that has the "higher skill" would not nascar, and the other team would presumably slam into them, so the relationship between "skill" however you define it, and occurrences of nascar in matches cant really be simplified that much.

Nascar is a strategy that makes sense in game modes where you cant respawn because it insulates each player to an extent from the others' mistakes. Go off on your own and you die. Ball up, and at least the enemy team has to chew through your team before you die. That aspect of the strategy is more or less indisputable.

[Leone]

pbiggz, on 07 May 2021 - 09:17 AM, said:

Again missing the forest for the trees here. Nascar is a symptom of not having respawns. Put in respawns? Nascar goes away, or at least diminishes significantly.

You are wrong. We have respawns in Community warfare. Nascar happens all the time, though more often in the non invasion modes, though it does happen there often as well.

Kiran Yagami, on 10 May 2021 - 06:57 AM, said:

Lack of respawns make nascar possible, but it doesn't create it. You can't nascar in FW because doing so puts the spawn at your back, which is an instant loss scenario. Fresh enemies come in and one shot you from behind, and the nascar is over before it began.

You are incorrect. What happens is if the players reinforce, the nascar turns and follows the trial of mechcrumbs to the spawn point and then everybody is complaining about something else, but the nascar still happened, it just adjusted to the changing battlefield.

Wildstreak, on 10 May 2021 - 01:04 PM, said:

Respawn problems again:
1 - Encourages spawn camping. This happened in FW, defender pushes out and spawn camps attackers. A number of people walked away from FW never to come back from this along with other reasons.

And you are incorrect! MWO actively discourages you from camping in your spawn because when you die there your next mech'll drop right back into the fight, often getting you killed without a chance to do much. Yes you wanna push out of your spawn and defend forwards aggressively. This is a thing that'll prevent your spawn from getting overrun.

~Leone.

[pbiggz]

I wouldn't really call that nascar. Additionally, FW is an asymmetric game mode. Having two teams on essentially arena balanced maps would play out differently, especially if respawn locations are handled correctly (i.e. either giving the player the choice of several spawn points, which, to get ahead of the naysayers, is NORMAL IN MANY GAMES, or automatically dropping players in at the safest spawn point, which is also normal in many games).

People are always gonna play follow the leader, at least this gives them more time to play and more chances to shoot mechs, and that's really the heart and soul of it; people want to spend more time shooting robots.

[Homer The Thief]

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 01:42 PM, said:

If the relationship between skill and nascar were so simple, then the team that has the "higher skill" would not nascar

That is correct and is exactly what happens, the team that has higher skill does not nascar.

But if your team and the enemy team have varied skill, then the skilled on both teams, hunt and kill the weak on the opposing teams, NASCAR.

And who ever kills the fastest wins the race.

[pbiggz]

Homer The Thief, on 10 May 2021 - 02:15 PM, said:

That is correct and is exactly what happens, the team that has higher skill does not nascar.

Ok then "skillgap" doesn't cause nascar.

Homer The Thief, on 10 May 2021 - 02:15 PM, said:

But if your team and the enemy team have varied skill, then the skilled on both teams, hunt and kill the weak on the opposing teams, NASCAR.

And who ever kills the fastest wins the race.

That's called being better at the game. No amount of respawns or lack thereof will save you from the fact that some people are better at clicking heads than others. Thats why they end up in Tier 1, and some people end up in Tier 5.

[Nameless King]

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:

Gonna need a big ol' citation needed on that one boss. People walked away from faction play when they basically removed all the company interaction from it, nerfing all the large units overnight, and thus deleting the bazillion or so smaller units that orbited around them. Suggesting that the mere presence of respawns drove people off is misleading at best, and im pretty sure you know that.



Following the team like lemmings and then dying is not fun. The "ok with the status quo" crew is the only crew worse than the "no changes because im scared" crew.

Lol I play exactly how I like and I dont follow anyone nor do I die as often as you might think.

How would you stop nascar? Why do you think it is so bad exactly?

Respawns still bad and a no thanks

Edited by Nameless King, 10 May 2021 - 02:28 PM.

[pbiggz]

Nameless King, on 10 May 2021 - 02:27 PM, said:

Lol I play exactly how I like and I dont follow anyone nor do I die as often as you might think.

How would you stop nascar? Why do you think it is so bad exactly?

Respawns still bad and a no thanks

Respawns mean you get to play however you like and you won't be sentencing your entire team to death when you do. You've yet to offer a single reason why respawns are bad. You're just saying "they are bad". That's not an argument, its useless.

[Redacted]

[Homer The Thief]

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 02:21 PM, said:

Ok then "skillgap" doesn't cause nascar.

Incorrect, both teams must have skillgap, one nascar's because one doesn't not trust team mates lol.

If team mates are trusted why nascar

haha

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 02:21 PM, said:

That's called being better at the game. No amount of respawns or lack thereof will save you from the fact that some people are better at clicking heads than others. Thats why they end up in Tier 1, and some people end up in Tier 5.

Yes this is common knowledge.

Yes alt account start in T5, cannot play T1 account because people report you when you nascar for non participation, which is kinda garbage.

Edited by Homer The Thief, 10 May 2021 - 02:43 PM.

[Nameless King]

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 02:30 PM, said:

Respawns mean you get to play however you like and you won't be sentencing your entire team to death when you do. You've yet to offer a single reason why respawns are bad. You're just saying "they are bad". That's not an argument, its useless.

[Redacted]

Sorry this is my main, I dont post often but you can go ahead and look at my profile I been around a long while.

There are many games with respawns this game would gain nothing from them, if you want them maybe play another game.

Lol I play how I like always and I am pretty sure I am not the reason for a loss.

[pbiggz]

Nameless King, on 10 May 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

Sorry this is my main, I dont post often but you can go ahead and look at my profile I been around a long while.

There are many games with respawns this game would gain nothing from them, if you want them maybe play another game.

Lol I play how I like always and I am pretty sure I am not the reason for a loss.

So then your argument is that you don't like respawns because you like how you play right now? That says more about you than it does anyone else. People are clearly not satisfied with the current quickplay experience and you've offered zero constructive criticism of anything being discussed here.

Just saying "no" to any and all suggestions that come down the pipe isn't contributing.[Redacted]

[Nameless King]

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 02:46 PM, said:

So then your argument is that you don't like respawns because you like how you play right now? That says more about you than it does anyone else. People are clearly not satisfied with the current quickplay experience and you've offered zero constructive criticism of anything being discussed here.

Just saying "no" to any and all suggestions that come down the pipe isn't contributing. [Redacted]

Lol I will do just fine no matter what changes. Playing how I like just means I do what I like as in build mechs that are not meta or use clan or the most part, going to parts of the map seldom used or using mechs unlvled.

I also did not say "no" to all suggestions just to respawns and clan vs is. (at least lately)

Again please tell us how respawns will help anyone? BTW with or without respawns I will do just as well.

[D A T A]

nascar exists because fast mechs are too strong, and there is no real survival or power reward for crippling your speed to 40-50 kph.

[Tranquilo Sunrise]

Sign me up for 24/7 TDM and FFA random respawn system for both, map change every hour. I'd even be happy if it was unranked. I just wanna mindlessly pew pew in big stompy robots and not have to constantly rejoin queue's every 5 minutes.

I hadn't played since beta and I enjoyed jump sniping in 2erppc Veagle for a bit when i came back. Used some heavies and assaults. poke sniped and brawled a bit. but the style is too slow for me. I enjoy the agility of Mediums. But I haven't played in about a week. felt like I spent too much time queuing.

I'll probably lurk for a bit then eventually move to something else. I actually enjoyed watching the nascar. it's entertaining. but it does shorten the matches.

Edited by Tranquilo Sunrise, 10 May 2021 - 03:21 PM.

[pbiggz]

Nameless King, on 10 May 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

Lol I will do just fine no matter what changes. Playing how I like just means I do what I like as in build mechs that are not meta or use clan or the most part, going to parts of the map seldom used or using mechs unlvled.

Good for you.

Nameless King, on 10 May 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

I also did not say "no" to all suggestions just to respawns and clan vs is. (at least lately)

And all you did was say no. You didn't offer reasoning, or a justification for saying it. You don't actually seem to care much what happens, you're just saying no. [Redacted]

Nameless King, on 10 May 2021 - 02:56 PM, said:

Again please tell us how respawns will help anyone? BTW with or without respawns I will do just as well.

People hate nascar because they wait 15 minutes in a queue to get into a match where they run around in circles exactly the way they do every match until they die from a lucky shot, then spend another 15 minutes waiting in queue.

They want to spend more time shooting mechs, and less time watching a spinning circle or a loading screen. This is how you let them spend more time shooting mechs. Its a win in virtually every way, for everyone. Your arbitrary naysaying doesn't change that fact, it just makes you look like a contrarian who came out of the woodwork for the attention.

[Nameless King]

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 03:31 PM, said:

Good for you.



And all you did was say no. You didn't offer reasoning, or a justification for saying it. You don't actually seem to care much what happens, you're just saying no. [Redacted]


People hate nascar because they wait 15 minutes in a queue to get into a match where they run around in circles exactly the way they do every match until they die from a lucky shot, then spend another 15 minutes waiting in queue.

They want to spend more time shooting mechs, and less time watching a spinning circle or a loading screen. This is how you let them spend more time shooting mechs. Its a win in virtually every way, for everyone. Your arbitrary naysaying doesn't change that fact, it just makes you look like a contrarian who came out of the woodwork for the attention.

Nothing I have said is arbitrary, you just dont agree with me.

I dont need to spell out the reasons why it is not a good idea, they have all been said before over and over, go look back at the forums, this lame idea has come up a few times.

Again we already have a game mode with respawns and it has been proven over and over again QP/GP is the most played mode.

My opinion is just as valid as anyone else, so I will not be "getting out"

Also splitting the Q or changing the most popular Q is a lose lose for everyone, if you want it so badly maybe ask them to change CW to that instead of QP, you would probably gain more traction.