50 replies to this topic

[Kazvall]

I'm going to try and not sound too negative here. Sorry if I come off that way. Could you add melee already? How hard is it to add a point blank attack tied to an animation? You know the money from adding melee focused mech packs would keep you guys in business forever? I am guessing there is no one currently on payroll that does any coding. Why not hire some contractors again?

I'm sorry MW5 wasnt the cash cow you were hoping for so you're back to supporting MWO again. That's what happens when you done finish something and have to have free labor from the community finish your product. Pay some contractors to add melee already so you can give the one guy on payroll who does mech assets something to do. Let me hit things. Please?

[FupDup]

The animations would look incredibly awkward with how stiff and blocky MWO's mechs are designed to look, and unless you're faster than your target the target can just walk backwards to outrun your fists. This isn't TT or HBS-BT where your target has to sit still for a whole turn while you line up your approach.

Trying to use melee against a proper brawler (SRM/LBX/MRM/etc.) would probably end badly.

[pbiggz]

FupDup, on 26 April 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

The animations would look incredibly awkward with how stiff and blocky MWO's mechs are designed to look, and unless you're faster than your target the target can just walk backwards to outrun your fists. This isn't TT or HBS-BT where your target has to sit still for a whole turn while you line up your approach.

Trying to use melee against a proper brawler (SRM/LBX/MRM/etc.) would probably end badly.

Oh i don't agree with that at all. It looks great in HBS battletech and those are the same models, just reskinned and rigged for it. I used to be pretty anti-melee but im very pro now, i just doubt pgi can do it.

[The6thMessenger]

I honestly don't see the point. The game works well right now.

Likewise they got their engineers working at MW5, they weren't even able to make this patch into PTS. I would have loved to try Navid's 0% jam UACs.

[FupDup]

pbiggz, on 26 April 2021 - 04:27 PM, said:

Oh i don't agree with that at all. It looks great in HBS battletech and those are the same models, just reskinned and rigged for it. I used to be pretty anti-melee but im very pro now, i just doubt pgi can do it.

Some of the animations are better than others, but even the best ones would be too slow to be useful in MWO with any regularity.

The worst one I remember is the Archer trying to do a roundhouse kick but looking completely stupid during the attempt.

Edited by FupDup, 26 April 2021 - 04:30 PM.

[pbiggz]

FupDup, on 26 April 2021 - 04:29 PM, said:

Some of the animations are better than others, but even the best ones would be too slow to be useful in MWO with any regularity.

The worst one I remember is the Archer trying to do a roundhouse kick but looking completely stupid during the attempt.

My point is you can't discount it purely on the basis of animations, these models CAN handle the animations.

You CAN discount it on the basis of PGI. Lets just be fair, and put blame where it belongs.

[justcallme A S H]

Oh dear not again...

[pbiggz]

justcallme A S H, on 26 April 2021 - 04:32 PM, said:

Oh dear not again...

melee would be cool, i just dont ever expect to see it in this game, and honestly i dont really care. Maybe we'll see it in another mech game in the future.

[Heavy Money]

It would be possible with the current model rigs, but probably wouldn't look that great, and be difficult to balance.

The real issue is that they'd have to hire an animator and possibly a rigger too, and then create the animations for every single chassis. This is NOT a trivial task or investment. Then they'd also need to code it all, and figure out how to balance it. It'd totally upset the meta. And there's many questions that would be difficult to answer about how it should work. It's unlikely to satisfy the players.

Technically it is possible, but it would be a large investment that probably won't pay off as well as the same investment in other areas.

Edited by Heavy Money, 26 April 2021 - 05:07 PM.

[Leone]

They used to have knockdowns. Appearantly, it didn't go so well.

~Leone.

[justcallme A S H]

pbiggz, on 26 April 2021 - 04:39 PM, said:

melee would be cool, i just dont ever expect to see it in this game, and honestly i dont really care. Maybe we'll see it in another mech game in the future.

I mean cool or not things like knock downs were removed cause it's absolutely garbage for gameplay in a FPS.

I mean it's fun in Battletech, which coincidentally I played a bit last night, but that's a completely different game.

[pbiggz]

justcallme A S H, on 26 April 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:

I mean cool or not things like knock downs were removed cause it's absolutely garbage for gameplay in a FPS.

I mean it's fun in Battletech, which coincidentally I played a bit last night, but that's a completely different game.

Knockdowns got took out because paul inouye didn't like getting bullied by the GOONs. I think they have a place in this game, but IIRC they were jank back then too, you slid around and it played badly with the netcode, so im not holding my breath, or expecting to ever see them again.

[FupDup]

pbiggz, on 26 April 2021 - 05:16 PM, said:

Knockdowns got took out because paul inouye didn't like getting bullied by the GOONs. I think they have a place in this game, but IIRC they were jank back then too, you slid around and it played badly with the netcode, so im not holding my breath, or expecting to ever see them again.

Even without warping around, making people lose control of their mech for about 5ish seconds any time they gently touch another mech (friend or foe) is just a crap mechanic. It would basically be a death sentence even for an assault mech to be entirely unable to twist or shoot during that long of a time span.

It's even a somewhat pointless mechanic in HBS Battletech because you can just oneshot assault mechs through the center torso anyways.

[pbiggz]

FupDup, on 26 April 2021 - 05:19 PM, said:

Even without warping around, making people lose control of their mech for about 5ish seconds any time they gently touch another mech (friend or foe) is just a crap mechanic. It would basically be a death sentence even for an assault mech to be entirely unable to twist or shoot during that long of a time span.

It's even a somewhat pointless mechanic in HBS Battletech because you can just oneshot assault mechs through the center torso anyways.

I think its implied in what i said that the way it was in the game wasn't great, but to be clear, it wasn't great. I don't think paul inouye turning them off because he got bullied is remotely a good reason to ever have had them removed, but certainly they would have needed work had they stayed in.

Overall my position on this is that mechs should be alot more agile than they are. They can be more nimble but still feel weighty. Part of that nimbleness means they should be able to punch things, crouch, shuffle around behind cover, and manipulate their surroundings more, its about the only way mechs make any kind of sense, but again, that is so far beyond what this engine can do, so i don't expect it, nor do I waste time being angry about not having it. The priority for mwo should be making the mechs feel good to pilot. They're on the clunky end of the spectrum, and that's frankly frustrating for alot of people. The agility and movement rework that's coming up hopefully will help. That's alot more realistic to expect.

[John Bronco]

Yeah, just throw it in, preferably by this weekend.

Why not?

[justcallme A S H]

pbiggz, on 26 April 2021 - 05:16 PM, said:

Knockdowns got took out because paul inouye didn't like getting bullied by the GOONs. I think they have a place in this game, but IIRC they were jank back then too, you slid around and it played badly with the netcode, so im not holding my breath, or expecting to ever see them again.

Well that and for gameplay, it's just yuk.

A fast Med coming up behind & just clean knocks you over for a few seconds.
Then the hitboxes being all banged up. Unable to shield anything while on the ground getting pounded by LRMs and whatever else. You're dead before you can get back up again.

If people think NASCAR is bad now - bring back knockdowns. It'll be an Assault bowling fest and totally drag down matches into a disaster.

I'm legitimately not seeing much enjoyment in that past about a week.

[GuardDogg]

Bringing out those claws in the Kodiak could have a purpose. Torso twist using the claws to do damage. That would be awesome. :-)

[MrTBSC]

GuardDogg, on 26 April 2021 - 08:00 PM, said:

Bringing out those claws in the Kodiak could have a purpose. Torso twist using the claws to do damage. That would be awesome. :-)

the only purpose they had was purely aestetic, unlike the retractable blades of the Jihad area Mechs or the hatchedman

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

While I am sure we do not have the dev resources available to implement such a system...

I would haphazard a guess that the engine can handle melee attacks (similar to how more FPS games have some type of melee attack)—- and just NOT implement knockdowns (just like most FPS games with melee attacks- usually do not have knockdowns).

Maybe just restrict melee to punching and only for mechs with hand actuators modeled to the chassis... (so no kicking and no gun barrel punching).

Maybe must have a non-destroyed arm, and all weapons off cooldown...

Anyway... regardless of the wish list... we know PGI does not have the developmental resources available for MWO to code such a huge undertaking at this time...

Maybe we can return to this question in a year or two if the population grows large enough to warrant more development costs.

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly some sort of kick would be great against light mechs hugging your legs when your in an Assault (just picturing a Piranha getting crushed under the foot of an Atlas or kicked punted across the map brings a smile to my face). though i understand its not really possible in MWO. s knock down mechanic as well just wouldn't fit well unless you did something like give a mech more stability the higher its tonnage (also something like the before mentioned Piranha isn't going to knock over something like an Atlas without some serious luck and effort). still not something i see happening.

right now lets consentrate on getting the game to a state that we are attracting and keeping more players than we are losing. (i think part of that should at least some money put towards marketing, put a few adds out there or something to let people know it even exists. i know there are youtubers out there but unless you are already watching big stompy robot stuff or other Battletech vids the algorithm isn't going to show anyone MWO stuffS). lets fix what we have before we think of adding something new (as long as we don't go to crazy with mobility. we want mechs to feel like the weight as much as they do, not like Gundam were you have something that has to weight at least 75 tons zipping around at 200kph or more).