16 replies to this topic

[Johnny Slam]

Howdy Cauldron, you folks just jumped the damage of the LGR, and bumped the entire GR range profiles and dropped the PPC restrictions in essence making the various GR family more of the same, This instead of your stated purpose in the Patch notes that you intended to "Focus has been on variation within the weapon family".

Jacking up the range of the GR and increasing the LGR's damage only served to make them more alike with much less game play difference. Anyone who has studied and played them would have told you the strongest "variation" between them was:

• that rate of fire of a 2.6 cooldown and great range, that rewarded LGR pilots that picked their spot on the battlefield and took advantage of a brief window at distance or flanks to fire multiple rounds.
  
• That larger pinpoint damage that rewarded a GR pilot's patience to wait for the right singular moment while effectively shedding the incoming damage they received at mid range.
  
• One was a sniper, the other was a surgical-wrecking-ball.

As I'm sure you know, technically the LGR could do more DPS than a GR before any patches. But to do that the pilot had to make a series of choices to put themselves in the prime position that made that rare opportunity possible. This meant making the right choices about engine, loadout, skills, and studying the maps, perches, jumps, opponent performance and of course practice.

Whereas the GR required an entirely different set of principles, preps and gear to fully utilize it's strengths. There was a variation between the systems and the stats of those systems rewarded an awareness of them. Additionally as a sniper weapon the LGR with a 2.6 cooldown was at least a possible (although crappy) self defense weapon against Lights and mediums that may find the pilot flanking, but the 5.2 and 3.5 cooldowns make that almost untenable.

Finally, who was the genius in the "Cauldron" who thought allowing LGRs to twin with PPCs did anything to make the LGR better or unique? not to mention balanced? That change is about the most transparently meta serving change of the LGR in the cauldron patch, and it is the change that is drawing so much hate from posters that you now are throwing more changes at the "overperforming" LGR.

Which begs the question, the LGR but not the Jacked GR is "overperforming"? seriously?

Please do the community of pilots who enjoy and use variation in game-play a favor and just wind back the range on the GR, and wind the LGR back to pre March patch stats... it won't be great but it will be better than it is with the March or Cauldron patches. And will restore some semblance of the variations that defined the individual weapon system's roles previously.

Also, I don't know who makes up the Cauldron, but I'd suggest that beyond all around 'Rockstars' and Faction masters, that you get some pilots in the Cauldron who are 'students' or kensais of particular weapon systems, that can also approach weapon changes to various groups from both a highly informed and unbiased point of view. Some pilots who understand where a weapon system fits into the game as a whole but who will also resist all the urges to just buff their baby when it is time to "Focus has been on variation within the weapon family".


Thanks


P.S. And just to reiterate again... letting people Twin LGRs with PPCs???? what the hell were you guys thinking? Geez! that is almost as shortsighted as removing the Gauss charge-up mechanic would have been.

Edited by Johnny Slam, 27 April 2021 - 03:38 PM.

[FupDup]

On the other hand, the really fast shooting LGR put it in a similar role as ACs, except gimpier. Keep in mind that it's not just about differences between weapons of a single family, but between weapons of every family.

I do agree that the ranges are too similar between the two.

Edited by FupDup, 27 April 2021 - 03:41 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Too early to tell. I'm not dying to gauss rifles, I'm dying to triple snub PPC's, with or without accompanying AC/20's. Its just so obviously good a meta change that everyone is using them. Give it a few weeks and we'll see other stuff.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 27 April 2021 - 03:59 PM.

[D A T A]

Johnny Slam, on 27 April 2021 - 03:35 PM, said:

Howdy Cauldron, you folks just jumped the damage of the LGR, and bumped the entire GR range profiles and dropped the PPC restrictions in essence making the various GR family more of the same, This instead of your stated purpose in the Patch notes that you intended to "Focus has been on variation within the weapon family".

Jacking up the range of the GR and increasing the LGR's damage only served to make them more alike with much less game play difference. Anyone who has studied and played them would have told you the strongest "variation" between them was:

• that rate of fire of a 2.6 cooldown and great range, that rewarded LGR pilots that picked their spot on the battlefield and took advantage of a brief window at distance or flanks to fire multiple rounds.
  
• That larger pinpoint damage that rewarded a GR pilot's patience to wait for the right singular moment while effectively shedding the incoming damage they received at mid range.
  
• One was a sniper, the other was a surgical-wrecking-ball.

As I'm sure you know, technically the LGR could do more DPS than a GR before any patches. But to do that the pilot had to make a series of choices to put themselves in the prime position that made that rare opportunity possible. This meant making the right choices about engine, loadout, skills, and studying the maps, perches, jumps, opponent performance and of course practice.




Whereas the GR required an entirely different set of principles, preps and gear to fully utilize it's strengths. There was a variation between the systems and the stats of those systems rewarded an awareness of them. Additionally as a sniper weapon the LGR with a 2.6 cooldown was at least a possible (although crappy) self defense weapon against Lights and mediums that may find the pilot flanking, but the 5.2 and 3.5 cooldowns make that almost untenable.

Finally, who was the genius in the "Cauldron" who thought allowing LGRs to twin with PPCs did anything to make the LGR better or unique? not to mention balanced? That change is about the most transparently meta serving change of the LGR in the cauldron patch, and it is the change that is drawing so much hate from posters that you now are throwing more changes at the "overperforming" LGR.

Which begs the question, the LGR but not the Jacked GR is "overperforming"? seriously?

Please do the community of pilots who enjoy and use variation in game-play a favor and just wind back the range on the GR, and wind the LGR back to pre March patch stats... it won't be great but it will be better than it is with the March or Cauldron patches. And will restore some semblance of the variations that defined the individual weapon system's roles previously.

Also, I don't know who makes up the Cauldron, but I'd suggest that beyond all around 'Rockstars' and Faction masters, that you get some pilots in the Cauldron who are 'students' or kensais of particular weapon systems, that can also approach weapon changes to various groups from both a highly informed and unbiased point of view. Some pilots who understand where a weapon system fits into the game as a whole but who will also resist all the urges to just buff their baby when it is time to "Focus has been on variation within the weapon family".


Thanks


P.S. And just to reiterate again... letting people Twin LGRs with PPCs???? what the hell were you guys thinking? Geez! that is almost as shortsighted as removing the Gauss charge-up mechanic would have been.

so apparently the LGR is at the same time nerfed (false) but at the same time it's OP.....like.....wtf.........
balancing light gauss on cooldown and less damage is the best way to make it garbage: it will never have the cooldown of an AC, nor the proper damage.

What is light gauss? A sniping gun, not a DPS gun
weapons must do what they are supposed to do, otherwise they will either step on each other's toes or be uselees.
Lgauss at 2.6 cooldown was not a "variation" , was useless garbage, on top of a regular gauss that was even more useless garbage.
Why?
Because they were sniping guns with no range. Giving them more rage and, for Lgauss, less cooldown actually makes it do what it is supposed to do: snipe, otherwise you just go ac2 boat if you want to go DPS spam, you know, dps is the role of ac2....

Even if the ranges were identical (810) they still remain different: gauss goes with ERLL and light gauss goes with ERPPC....this is how you differentiate the weapons, by giving them a role, a purpose, and making them do well what they are supposed to do

Edited by D A T A, 27 April 2021 - 04:44 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

I agree with the LGR and the GRs kind of having the same range role. That being said, I honestly don't see much point of the complaint, there's not a lot you can do for the LGR when the name of the class is sniping and alpha, having to acquire your lead over and over for meagre damage isn't helpful. And if anything that treads on the AC2's long-range role.

I take the LGR for convenience of a 20-damage rapid-fire gauss that is synergistic with a lot of weapons like the ERPPC and the ER-ML. It's best to think that the 2x LGR is actually a 20-damage 24-ton rapid-fire super-gauss, and it works wonders that way.

I actually love the 2x ERPPC + 2x LGR, it's a less cancerous version of the 2x ERPPC + 2x GR. It works wonders, but it's unlike the previous cancer that works most of the time. Having used it often, I can assure you that unlike the previous Gauss-PPCs, it works mostly on long range combat, yeah it's oppressive doing 40 damage every 4s at 900m, but seriously it has heat, DPS and Alpha problems at close-range. It's best used on a good position, but the problem is that when the team nascars you are sure to get left behind -- and if you're nascaring anyways, you're better off with closer-ranged weapons.

I was better off with 2x LGR + 5 ERMLs on a marauder in most cases than LGR-ERPPC warhammer.

I suppose the Gauss could possibly be buffed to 17 damage if you want for better diversity, but with it competing somewhat in the tonnage band of the AC20 and UAC20, the autocannons needs cooldown reductions, and the ac20 in particular deserve it anyways.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 27 April 2021 - 05:58 PM.

[dario03]

The weapons are similar but they also have different builds that make sense for them. Regular gauss was given more range to make it more of a sniper weapon. Light gauss has more damage and less cooldown to also make it more of a sniper. Lgauss was removed from ppc ghost heat so it would have something over regular gauss besides just less weight.
I'll note your request, the Cauldron is always looking for suggestions but it would take a lot of requests for rollback for that to happen. Gauss didn't have much use at its old range. Lgauss with fast cooldown didn't see much use because if you had to expose so often you were often better off with ACs. Putting the ghost heat link back on Lgauss and ppc could happen if a good suggestion on buffing Lgauss could be agreed upon.

[Vlad Ward]

LGauss can fire with PPCs without ghost heat. That's a huge deal and makes it play very differently from Gauss in finished builds.

[PocketYoda]

I get one shot or two shot by HG or multiple RACs way more than i ever do to LG and PPC on tiers 4 and 5..

If any weapons need toning down its triple or quad Rac 2 and 5s and dual Heavy Guass... those things are making nearly every other weapons obsolete.

Edited by MechaGnome, 28 April 2021 - 03:11 AM.

[RickySpanish]

MechaGnome, on 28 April 2021 - 03:10 AM, said:

I get one shot or two shot by HG or multiple RACs way more than i ever do to LG and PPC on tiers 4 and 5..

If any weapons need toning down its triple or quad Rac 2 and 5s and dual Heavy Guass... those things are making nearly every other weapons obsolete.

Sir, that would go against your oft stated viewpoint that Inner Sphere Tech is inferior to those Clanner scumholes running The Cauldron. Surely you meant to say that we need to render useless Clan small/micro/pulse lasers and add ghost heat back to the hideously over buffed Clan AC-20? I anxiously await your correction!

[YueFei]

MechaGnome, on 28 April 2021 - 03:10 AM, said:

I get one shot or two shot by HG or multiple RACs way more than i ever do to LG and PPC on tiers 4 and 5..

If any weapons need toning down its triple or quad Rac 2 and 5s and dual Heavy Guass... those things are making nearly every other weapons obsolete.

I eat 2xHG to the face sometimes too, but note that 2xHG is slow and short-ranged... and prone to exploding once the armor is breached. If I couldn't see the 2xHG coming, it's either because I screwed up or because I was unable to get good longer-ranged sight-lines to see him coming, because the enemy was suppressing me. To me, that's just either my mistake or the enemy working well as a team.

The RACs also have their counters. They have very good short-term DPS, but will lose trades at medium/long distances against high-alpha builds, in scenarios where both sides have their own cover. Yes, they're very dangerous in situations where they enfilade you, or it's only 1 piece of cover between you and them, and they just peek it and can sustain several seconds of fire into you, but that's supposed to be their strength. If you can peek them in short intervals, you should be able to win those trades. This will be especially true once the agility patch hits, allowing quicker peeking and better ability to roll incoming damage (making RACs less efficient, and they do jam eventually).

[R Valentine]

Allowing LGR to fire with twin PPCs is the single redeeming quality of the LGR as a whole. Even 2 LGR + 2ERPPC is only 40 damage, and 2 ERPPCs is no small mount of heat. And as far as GR go, without range, the weapon served no purpose. You could achieve similar damage from the cERPPC over a greater distance with no charge and no ammunition spent, and you could achieve much better DPS with dakka at a similar distance. Both weapons are better off with the patch. Immensely so.

[Gas Guzzler]

Disagree with OP. Removing light Gauss from the PPC GH family is a good change. Even regular IS gauss and PPCs were never as much of an issue back in the day, and Light Gauss certainly is not.

[Dauntless Blint]

Maybe valid but don't nerf the LGR please, just desync the weapons if you gotta do something.

[Bud Crue]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 April 2021 - 01:24 PM, said:

Disagree with OP. Removing light Gauss from the PPC GH family is a good change. Even regular IS gauss and PPCs were never as much of an issue back in the day, and Light Gauss certainly is not.

I still maintain that the broad Gauss/PPC GH link was an over reaction to a handful of mechs. Giving back a taste of that kind of game play via de-linking the LGR gives those of you who actually want to run an extreme long distance build a viable niche, but still at a coast of a significant tonnage investment. This is not at all unreasonable and will encourage build diversity and increased player choice; things the devs once claimed were primary balance goals.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Johnny Slam, on 27 April 2021 - 03:35 PM, said:

Anyone who has studied and played them would have told you the strongest "variation" between them was:

Be careful implying incompetence in the Cauldron, someone is going to check your stats.

[McGoat]

Johnny Slam, on 27 April 2021 - 03:35 PM, said:

Finally, who was the genius in the "Cauldron" who thought allowing LGRs to twin with PPCs did anything to make the LGR better or unique? not to mention balanced? That change is about the most transparently meta serving change of the LGR in the cauldron patch, and it is the change that is drawing so much hate from posters that you now are throwing more changes at the "overperforming" LGR.


Please do the community of pilots who enjoy and use variation in game-play a favor and just wind back the range on the GR, and wind the LGR back to pre March patch stats... it won't be great but it will be better than it is with the March or Cauldron patches. And will restore some semblance of the variations that defined the individual weapon system's roles previously.



P.S. And just to reiterate again... letting people Twin LGRs with PPCs???? what the hell were you guys thinking? Geez! that is almost as shortsighted as removing the Gauss charge-up mechanic would have been.

Prior to the 420 patch the LGR was used in three situations:
Sit1: Average to good player playing with "meme" builds
Sit2: Bad player trying to snipe in some weird ecm/stealth mech
Sit3: New player not knowing it's literally a poo weapon

Now it at least has good use when combined with ERPPC and has been buffed in the other situations noted above.

Why would you want it reverted to being poo?

[pattonesque]

McGoat, on 29 April 2021 - 07:41 AM, said:

Prior to the 420 patch the LGR was used in three situations:
Sit1: Average to good player playing with "meme" builds
Sit2: Bad player trying to snipe in some weird ecm/stealth mech
Sit3: New player not knowing it's literally a poo weapon

Now it at least has good use when combined with ERPPC and has been buffed in the other situations noted above.

Why would you want it reverted to being poo?

I suspect some folks don't like being gaussed from a location they can't identify

which is on them, to clarify